Introducing PractiScore

[Glock27]

There is only need for 2 decimal places. The second one entered should close the entry box or jump to the next string.Jump to score targets when time(s) are entered.

Picking nits on this awesome program.

Bob

Edited December 20, 2012 by Glock27

[euxx]

Hmm... It is not always the case, but nice idea. Keep them coming. Or better year, register at https://practiscore.com/bugs/ and submit your requests directly. Will save me some time on entering them up there...

[CHA-LEE]

We use Nook Simple Touch devices. The font showing the hit factor definitely should be bigger.

The hit factor is important for the scorekeeper to verify that the shooter's score was entered correctly. On a related point, another protection for erroneous scoring was suggested quite a while ago. When the scoring for a shooter on a particular stage has been opened, any attempt to exit the scoring session should verify that the score is correct in form (i.e., a hit factor was generated) or clearly warn that the score is incomplete and require a verification of intent to leave the session. In other words, if the time is entered and the targets have the correct number of hits/misses recorded, the session can simply close; if time is missing or a target has too many or not enough hits, a popup should appear saying "Scoring is not complete; exit anyway?"

A lot of those kind of errors can be fixed if the software disallowed inputting a score into the next target unless there was a valid hit count entered in the prior target. For example, If you have T1 and T2, there are suppose to be two hits per target. If you input 1A, 1B, and 1C in the T1 line then click on T2 it should pop up an error message stating that the hits entered in T1 are not correct. The same could be done for the time. It is rare that you would have a USPSA handgun stage take more than 100 seconds, if a time is input beyond 100 seconds a pop up could ask "Are you sure the stage time exceeds 100 seconds?".

[CHA-LEE]

I have question to PractiScore users who using android platform (including Nooks). When scoring shooters, the scored squad/shooter list has two lines for each row. The first one has shooter name and division and second one is showing hit factor, squad and time (if stage is complete).

Is font used for that second line easy to read for you? Please specify what device you are using.

What if the Name line was Bold for the incomplete scores and then have the Hit Factor/Time line Bold when the score is complete? Basically transitioning between a bold name line and a bold hit factor line. That would make it easy to quickly distinguish between who has finished shooting the stage and who has not.

[euxx]

A lot of those kind of errors can be fixed if the software disallowed inputting a score into the next target unless there was a valid hit count entered in the prior target. For example, If you have T1 and T2, there are suppose to be two hits per target. If you input 1A, 1B, and 1C in the T1 line then click on T2 it should pop up an error message stating that the hits entered in T1 are not correct.

Let's hear what others say about this one.

One scenario when this may not be a good idea is when RO hit a questionable target, so called CRO, then RM and can't score any further until they resolve issue with that target. While now they can just continue scoring and then get back to the problematic one later...

The same could be done for the time. It is rare that you would have a USPSA handgun stage take more than 100 seconds, if a time is input beyond 100 seconds a pop up could ask "Are you sure the stage time exceeds 100 seconds?".

Heh, that will be really nice... Until someone run a Monster match with 50 pieces of steel at each stage... I know I'd be annoyed to death by that kind of warning.

What if the Name line was Bold for the incomplete scores and then have the Hit Factor/Time line Bold when the score is complete? Basically transitioning between a bold name line and a bold hit factor line. That would make it easy to quickly distinguish between who has finished shooting the stage and who has not.

This kinda breaks natural way of things... i.e. the same things (like names) should look similarly. Using bold to highlight different entities (names vs hitfactor, etc) is not natural... Another problem with bold is that it takes more space (which is already an issue on small screens). But we can gray out problematic rows (incomplete, dnf and dqs).

I am really tempted to ditch the hit factor (it seem like most can't see it anyways) and only show status instead (complete/incomplete/dq/dnf). But Ken will most probably disapprove.

[sperman]

A lot of those kind of errors can be fixed if the software disallowed inputting a score into the next target unless there was a valid hit count entered in the prior target. For example, If you have T1 and T2, there are suppose to be two hits per target. If you input 1A, 1B, and 1C in the T1 line then click on T2 it should pop up an error message stating that the hits entered in T1 are not correct.

Let's hear what others say about this one.

One scenario when this may not be a good idea is when RO hit a questionable target, so called CRO, then RM and can't score any further until they resolve issue with that target. While now they can just continue scoring and then get back to the problematic one later...

There have been times when entering scores that I know I fat fingered something. (Let's say T1 has 3 alpha.) Rather than stopping the RO who is calling the hits, and slowing everything down to fix T1 right then, I keep scoring, knowing I need to go back and change T1 to 2A. This wouldn't be possible with what CHA-LEE has suggested.

[bbbean]

There have been times when entering scores that I know I fat fingered something. (Let's say T1 has 3 alpha.) Rather than stopping the RO who is calling the hits, and slowing everything down to fix T1 right then, I keep scoring, knowing I need to go back and change T1 to 2A. This wouldn't be possible with what CHA-LEE has suggested.

+1. Plus, if you have DTs or other targets with NPMs, you might not be scoring targets in numerical order.

[wgnoyes]

I am really tempted to ditch the hit factor (it seem like most can't see it anyways) and only show status instead (complete/incomplete/dq/dnf). But Ken will most probably disapprove.

There's no reason not to display the hit factor. It doesn't affect operation of the device at all, and it's a value-add to be able to just look at a squad and see who did what on that stage. Not every device is being used for official scoring. Many people carry their own around to keep track of their performances v. other squad mates as the match progresses.

[euxx]

There's no reason not to display the hit factor. It doesn't affect operation of the device at all, and it's a value-add to be able to just look at a squad and see who did what on that stage. Not every device is being used for official scoring. Many people carry their own around to keep track of their performances v. other squad mates as the match progresses.

I see it as a distraction point for devices that are used for scoring. You only need to see if score is complete or not.

On all other devices, they can simply directly check the scores for given stage.

[bbbean]

There's no reason not to display the hit factor. It doesn't affect operation of the device at all, and it's a value-add to be able to just look at a squad and see who did what on that stage. Not every device is being used for official scoring. Many people carry their own around to keep track of their performances v. other squad mates as the match progresses.

I see it as a distraction point for devices that are used for scoring. You only need to see if score is complete or not.

On all other devices, they can simply directly check the scores for given stage.

I like being able to tell a shooter "you had a XX hit factor on that stage." I REALLY like knowing I had a XX hit factor on the stage. No reason to have to wait till devices are synced or scores posted to know how you did when the answer is right there. This is especially true on the classifier. There are always people looking up CMCalc or Classifiercalc.com to see how they did on the classifier right after they shot it.

[wgnoyes]

There's no reason not to display the hit factor. It doesn't affect operation of the device at all, and it's a value-add to be able to just look at a squad and see who did what on that stage. Not every device is being used for official scoring. Many people carry their own around to keep track of their performances v. other squad mates as the match progresses.

I see it as a distraction point for devices that are used for scoring. You only need to see if score is complete or not.

On all other devices, they can simply directly check the scores for given stage.

Nope, disagree, no reason not to display it.

[euxx]

Nope, disagree, no reason not to display it.

I gave you several reasons.

IMHO it is distraction to score keeper, it should not be used as indication that scores has been entered and finally most people can't see it anyways because font is not large enough. Note, we are talking about screen where scores are entered... but not about screen where results are shown or scores compered.

[CHA-LEE]

A lot of those kind of errors can be fixed if the software disallowed inputting a score into the next target unless there was a valid hit count entered in the prior target. For example, If you have T1 and T2, there are suppose to be two hits per target. If you input 1A, 1B, and 1C in the T1 line then click on T2 it should pop up an error message stating that the hits entered in T1 are not correct.

Let's hear what others say about this one.

One scenario when this may not be a good idea is when RO hit a questionable target, so called CRO, then RM and can't score any further until they resolve issue with that target. While now they can just continue scoring and then get back to the problematic one later...

The same could be done for the time. It is rare that you would have a USPSA handgun stage take more than 100 seconds, if a time is input beyond 100 seconds a pop up could ask "Are you sure the stage time exceeds 100 seconds?".

Heh, that will be really nice... Until someone run a Monster match with 50 pieces of steel at each stage... I know I'd be annoyed to death by that kind of warning.

What if the Name line was Bold for the incomplete scores and then have the Hit Factor/Time line Bold when the score is complete? Basically transitioning between a bold name line and a bold hit factor line. That would make it easy to quickly distinguish between who has finished shooting the stage and who has not.

This kinda breaks natural way of things... i.e. the same things (like names) should look similarly. Using bold to highlight different entities (names vs hitfactor, etc) is not natural... Another problem with bold is that it takes more space (which is already an issue on small screens). But we can gray out problematic rows (incomplete, dnf and dqs).

I am really tempted to ditch the hit factor (it seem like most can't see it anyways) and only show status instead (complete/incomplete/dq/dnf). But Ken will most probably disapprove.

On the disallowing the input of the next target score discussion. From an RO perspective, its up to the RO to make the "Call" on what they believe the hits are on any given target. The Score keeper enters the target scores the RO is calling out. If there is a question or challenge on the score observed by the RO, the remainder of the stage should be scored then the target in question should be pulled and the RM called to make the final call. At that point if the RM decided that the currently scored call needs to be changed then that edit will be made at that time on the score sheet. This is the scoring process that is used at all major USPSA events and what NROI trains their RO's and CRO's to do.

Ensuring that first target is correctly scored before the next target can be scored provides a benefit the vast majority of the time verses the few times were you would run into a scoring challenge.

[CHA-LEE]

A lot of those kind of errors can be fixed if the software disallowed inputting a score into the next target unless there was a valid hit count entered in the prior target. For example, If you have T1 and T2, there are suppose to be two hits per target. If you input 1A, 1B, and 1C in the T1 line then click on T2 it should pop up an error message stating that the hits entered in T1 are not correct.

Let's hear what others say about this one.

One scenario when this may not be a good idea is when RO hit a questionable target, so called CRO, then RM and can't score any further until they resolve issue with that target. While now they can just continue scoring and then get back to the problematic one later...

There have been times when entering scores that I know I fat fingered something. (Let's say T1 has 3 alpha.) Rather than stopping the RO who is calling the hits, and slowing everything down to fix T1 right then, I keep scoring, knowing I need to go back and change T1 to 2A. This wouldn't be possible with what CHA-LEE has suggested.

If performed properly the Score Keeper should be the one driving the pace of the RO calling out the hits. The RO should not call out the hits for the next target until the score keeper repeats the called hits for the previous target. When the Score Keeper is in control of the speed at which the targets are called out then you have all the time in the world to input the score or recover from an invalid target score entry. You simply don't repeat the called hits until you recover from the mistake, validly input the score, and are ready to input the score for the next target.

I see WAY too many times when the RO starts scoring the targets at a rapid fire pace not even listening for the score keeper to repeat the called hits. Or worse the score keeper starts repeating the called hits before they even input the data into the scoring device. Doing either of these things quickly gets the RO and Score Keeper out of sync and you end up having to stop the scoring process to catch up or repeat previously called targets.

[CHA-LEE]

I am also a fan of having the Hit Factor and stage time listed on the squad list screen. Shooters want to know how they did when compared to others. Having the hit factor and time listed on the squad list screen allows shooters to quickly assess how they stacked up against others in the squad. Additionally, shooters who just completed the stage are some times in a mental fog right after their stage run. I have seen it happen many times as a score keeper that I will show a shooter their detailed breakdown of their stage run score, then not 2 minutes later that ask something about their stage run because they forgot or were not paying attention when it was first shown to them.

As for making an easy distinction between "Incomplete" and "Completed" shooters what about inverting the color of the text on the squad list page? Incomplete shooters could be black text with a white background. Competed shooters could be white text with a black background. That would make it very easy to glance at the squad list page and know instantly who has or has not completed the stage.

[NMBOpen]

For perspective, much of what CHA-LEE is requesting is standard in the StageScore Palm scoring program they had been using prior to Practiscore.

[Mark R]

The same could be done for the time. It is rare that you would have a USPSA handgun stage take more than 100 seconds, if a time is input beyond 100 seconds a pop up could ask "Are you sure the stage time exceeds 100 seconds?".

I have revolver and new shooters that sometime exceed the 100 second time.

[CHA-LEE]

The same could be done for the time. It is rare that you would have a USPSA handgun stage take more than 100 seconds, if a time is input beyond 100 seconds a pop up could ask "Are you sure the stage time exceeds 100 seconds?".

I have revolver and new shooters that sometime exceed the 100 second time.

Then make the magic number 200 seconds before it does the pop up..... The point I am trying to make is that today you could have someone input a time of 202.4 instead of 20.24 and it would accept the incorrect time without posting a notice. If the shooter or score keeper does not look at the time or hit factor and notice that its abnormal then that shooter will end up with an incorrect score.

[CHA-LEE]

The reality is that there will always be someone "New" to performing the score keeper duty. The more effort put into making the scoring process intuitive and assist the score keeper with performing the tasks properly the less problems you will have. Less problems = an improved experience for everyone.

All of the suggestions I have made in this thread have been in an effort to make the PractiScore software more intuitive and less prone to mistakes. If the software is made in a way that is intuitive and helps guide the user though proper use then the learning curve gets dramatically reduced. With this kind of thing you should be able to hand the scoring device to anyone and simply say "Do it" then let them figure it out on the fly.

[ctay]

My .02 - Having the hit factor listed in the squad list is something I really like.

[euxx]

My .02 - Having the hit factor listed in the squad list is something I really like.

Guys, if you are commenting about showing hit factor, please specify what device you running PractiScore on and if font look readable to you.

[CHA-LEE]

My .02 - Having the hit factor listed in the squad list is something I really like.

Guys, if you are commenting about showing hit factor, please specify what device you running PractiScore on and if font look readable to you.

I am using it on a Nook Simple Touch. I can read the Hit Factor and Time values without an issue. But I do hear a lot of older shooters complain about not being able to see it without putting on their reading glasses.

[ctay]

Guys, if you are commenting about showing hit factor, please specify what device you running PractiScore on and if font look readable to you.

Nook Simple Touch - Font looks small but totally acceptable.

[sperman]

The reality is that there will always be someone "New" to performing the score keeper duty. The more effort put into making the scoring process intuitive and assist the score keeper with performing the tasks properly the less problems you will have. Less problems = an improved experience for everyone.

All of the suggestions I have made in this thread have been in an effort to make the PractiScore software more intuitive and less prone to mistakes. If the software is made in a way that is intuitive and helps guide the user though proper use then the learning curve gets dramatically reduced. With this kind of thing you should be able to hand the scoring device to anyone and simply say "Do it" then let them figure it out on the fly.

• "It is impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious." --RobertHeinlein
  
• "Those who try to build idiot-proof systems always underestimate the persistence and ingenuity of idiots." --anon
  
• "If you make your system more idiot-proof the idiots will build a bigger idiot" --anon
  
• "You can make something foolproof, but not damnfoolproof" --anon
  

[Glock27]

Hit Factor looks good on our NSTs. Our shooters Love it there! They can see at a glance exactly how they shot the stage compared to the rest of the squad.

I would vote to keep it there!

Bob

Edited December 20, 2012 by Glock27