Yoder Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I have a problem especially with 9mm with the case tilting away from me on stage 1 deprime/resize. I'm using Lee dies. The way the shell is held with the retaining spring and the shell plate causes the case to tilt slightly and hang up going into the die. Anyone seen this? Could this be an issue with the shell plate? I leveled the press and acutually even tilted it the opposite direction and it didn't help. .45 cases do this a little bit, but not enough to case a problem. If this is common and there is no fix, what resizing die would you recommend that has a larger flared opening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acekc Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Low-hanging fruit: I assume you've double-checked to make sure that the shell plate # you're using for 9mm is the correct one? Slightly higher-hanging fruit: Have you paid attention to whether the issue is linked to certain positions in the shellplate? If I'm troubleshooting something that comes and goes, I'll often keep a pencil handy and put a tick mark next to the shellholder slot with the problem when a problem occurs. Running a few dozen rounds this way will usually tell me if a particular slot is causing an issue. You're probably doing this already, but when you install the retainer spring after switching shellplates, make sure that the spring is tucked into the groove underneath the shellplate between station one (where the brass goes in) and station 6 (where the completed rounds eject). If it's not riding in the groove I've seen that cause problems with both feeding and ejection. A final recommendation if you're not doing this already is to loosen the lock ring on the sizing die, pull the handle completely down to run a case up into the die and then tighten the lockring while the case is in the die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I have the same problem but only with 9mm, everything else works fine. The casing hangs up once every three or four cases, sometimes more. I am using an RCBS die. I called Hornady and the guy said that the pawls weren't indexing right. I don't think that is the problem though, I think that the casing needs to "square up" a bit more before entering the die, I think maybe the shell plate is a little too sloppy? The casing just barley hangs up, i just barley have to push the casing towards me to get it to go on the upstroke. I am using a case feeder and it hangs up with or without the casefeeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acekc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If it works with everything but 9mm it's probably not the pawls. Checking them is easy though. Without any cases in the shellplate, pull the handle halfway or so down until the pawl has moved the shellplate as much as it's going to, then hold the handle at that position with one hand and use your finger to wiggle the shellplate with the other. If the shellplate doesn't really move it means that the bearings underneath the shellplate have settled into their detents already, which in turn means that the pawl adjustment is fine. If on the other hand the shellplate moves slightly the first time you wiggle it and you feel/hear the bearings drop into the detents, it means the pawl either isn't indexing the shellplate all the way to the detent, or it's indexing it past the detent. In either of those cases the pawl does need to be adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't think that it is the pawls either, I am just saying that is what the guy at Hornady said. I just need the case mouth to tip ever so slightly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoder Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think the problem is the shell plate bevel is too thin where it holds the shell just above the case rim. If it were thicker the case wouldn't be able to tip back. The spring pulls it back slightly and the shell plate has too much play to keep it from tipping. Mine does this on every slot on the shell plate. I'll have to call Hornady and see if they have any ideas. It's not the indexing, the case is not perpendicular to the shell plate. Some cases more than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Please take a picture of the press with case tipping from a few angles. Also remove the spring and cycle the press, push the case in by hand if need be, does it tip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Out of curiosity, have you noticed this problem with one particular headstamp of brass? Also, it is possible that you're using some brass that has the "Glock Bulge" and perhaps the bulge on some cases is causing it to lean a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 When it happens, take the piece of brass out and look at the primer. I had this happen with a bunch of Glock fired brass the primer had flowed into the firing pin channel on. I ended up running the whole lot through using a .45 die as a depriming die on first. The primers were bulged and didn't let the little 9mm case sit flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoder Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'll deprime some cases and see if they still tip backward. I tried a couple different head stamps and Winchester seemed the worst, but they all do it. I did check all the slots in the shell plate and there isn't 1 that is worse than the others. A heavy chamfer on the die would help, but the case shouldn't be tilting. It irritates me that I might have to buy a new die to fix a design problem with the press. To me, it looks like the shell plate needs to be thicker right where it is beveled to fit above the case rim and hold the shell in place. If this was thicker the case wouldn't be able to tilt. I'll have to take some pictures so you can all see what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Since I don't hear other people complaining, it can't be a design problem. It could be a bad shell plate, but the design of the Hornady is excellent. I found that whenever I call Hornady about any problem, they are more than happy to walk me through and send me parts that might be bad/broken. I am able to use old RCBS carbide sizing dies (that have almost NO chamfer) with no more than an occasional pushing on the case with a finger. Any of the modern sizing dies work great. Are you making this up and have you gone through Hornady yet? At the least, the should be willing to send out a new shell plate, though they might ask you to send the old one in before or after receipt of new shell plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoder Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 I read this advice on another post I can't find right now, but it's part of the problem. My index is off slightly CCW. The ball detents are aligned perfect. You can't even wiggle it, so it's not the pawl adjustment. It looks like the sub plate is not aligned correctly. I'll have to check this with my .45 dies and shell plate and see if it's the same before I start messing with the sub plate. It could just be a bad 9mm shell plate. If you push laterally on the handle of the ram you can make the shell align better, but it's still tilted. I think if I straighten out this alignment I'll see the problem decrease or go away. It's going to be a while before I can work on it, I have to work the next 8 days straight so I won't have time to mess with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonF Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I get the same hangup from time to time with 9mm and it is annoying. There you are just zipping along loading loading loading when you get that hard *THUMP* where the case mouth bangs up against the die mouth causing a full stop. Like someone mentioned above, i believe its due to primers that had flow against the firing pin creating high spot. That high spot drags against the surface of the ram and makes them tilt to the side ever so slightly since there is very little clearance below the shell and the ram surface (ever not fully seat a primer and have it drage and lock up the shell plate?). Anyways, i don't believe its a fault of the hornady press since brass with normal primers proces fine. I had posted in the 9mm/.38 cal reloading forum to see if there were any dies that a wider mouth to help funnel the brass in better but no one really seemed to definitively know the answer to that. Edited February 3, 2012 by JonF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acekc Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I read this advice on another post I can't find right now, but it's part of the problem. My index is off slightly CCW. The ball detents are aligned perfect. You can't even wiggle it, so it's not the pawl adjustment. It looks like the sub plate is not aligned correctly. I'll have to check this with my .45 dies and shell plate and see if it's the same before I start messing with the sub plate. It could just be a bad 9mm shell plate. Having recently replaced my sub plate due to to the EZ-Ject projection being worn, there really isn't any adjustability to the subplate. If the alignment is off, it will probably have to be replaced and as you indicated it would affect all calibers and shell plates. I'm more inclined to blame a bad shell plate however - I've never had it confirmed by Hornady directly but the rumor I keep seeing online is that they contract their machine work out to different shops and as a result the tolerances on some examples of a part are better than others. This seems to be especially problematic with shell plates. This is a shot in the dark but make sure the shell plate isn't too tight as that can cause all sorts of issues. You typically want the cap screw just a hair greater than finger-tight. I had posted in the 9mm/.38 cal reloading forum to see if there were any dies that a wider mouth to help funnel the brass in better but no one really seemed to definitively know the answer to that. Heh. Actually I just answered that question for Yoder here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=145129&pid=1628739&st=0entry1628739 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoder Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I'm thinking it's the shell plate too. A guy on another forum is mailing me his 9mm plate to see if it fixes the problem. I should get it in a few days. Hopefully it will fix it. If not I'll call Hornady and see what they suggest. I also might just pick up a Dillon sizing die. If the opening is a little bigger it might just mask the problem enough for my press to work. I just wanted to thank everyone for all the good advice. Edited February 4, 2012 by Yoder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1in9twist Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Pretty sure it is the shellplate. I had the SAME problem. Got a replacement shellplate, issue is solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoder Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 I tried out a loaner shell plate and it went from every other shell to 1 in 50 to 1 in 100. I need to call hornady and get them to send me a new plate. I also tried a Dillon resizing die. Using that with my old shell plate I had two hang ups in 150 shells. I figure if I use the Dillon die with a new shell plate it should be golden. Thanks for all the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wptemple Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Look at the chamfer on the Lee die. I was told that the Lee die has less of a chamfer than a Hornady die so any amount of tilt causes problems. I also use a 9mm lee die and I am getting 1 of 3 to hang up. I touch it slightly and it goes in. Going to try and take a look at someone elses 9mm shellplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonF Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 For what its worth, after a couple people suggested a Dillon resizing die might help as its purportedly wider at the mouth, i went and bought one to try out. 4K rounds later and i have not had a single shell lean over and stop the press, it funnels them all in nicely. Definitely an improvement. I tried to mic the difference but the mouths of the dillon die and my RCBS die are a little differently designed so its hard to make a direct comparison. The RCBS has a straight chamfer whereas the Dillon has a rolled/curved edge. The dillon die also has the spring loaded primer punch which makes for really positive extraction. Overall, its working out excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giant81 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I found my lee dies in my Hornady LnL AP do the same thing. I find it does it more when the plate isn't fully tightened down or loosens a bit during use. you could try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer377 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 After thousands of trouble free rounds of 9mm, my lnl decided to start doing this today! The shell is leaning outward and catching on the sizing die. I cannot figure out why. Checked the brass, and it's happening with all types, not just ones with some primer flow. Even perfectly flush ones. Not sure if it's the shellplate, since I've reloaded for months on it with no issue. I took it off, cleaned the plate and subplate, reinstalled, still doing it. Tried loosening the lock ring on the size die, running the ram up and retightening - no joy there. WTF?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer377 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I think I may have just figured out the problem! The only thing I've done differently is using one shot case lube. It worked fine the last batch, but I've noticed that one shot can get tacky as it dries. Cases that were slick as snot last time now have some stiction. The v-block pushes the case into the slot, the case "ramps up" on the bevel in the shell plate against the bevel in the extractor groove on the case, tilting outward. Then, because of the tackiness, is stays "ramped up" at an angle. Sounds far-fetched, right? I go back out to the garage, run 200 non-lubed cases through without a single hang-up. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oteroman Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I had the same issue that got worse when I put a shell feeder on my L-N-L. It turned out to be the 9mm shell plate. There are 2 styles of 9mm shell plates. The shell plate that Hornady sent me had the same part number as the original 9mm plate. When you flip both plates over the 45 degree bevel portion varied between the 2 plates.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer377 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Which is the right one to use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I read this advice on another post I can't find right now, but it's part of the problem. My index is off slightly CCW. The ball detents are aligned perfect. You can't even wiggle it, so it's not the pawl adjustment. It looks like the sub plate is not aligned correctly. I'll have to check this with my .45 dies and shell plate and see if it's the same before I start messing with the sub plate. It could just be a bad 9mm shell plate. If you push laterally on the handle of the ram you can make the shell align better, but it's still tilted. I think if I straighten out this alignment I'll see the problem decrease or go away. It's going to be a while before I can work on it, I have to work the next 8 days straight so I won't have time to mess with it. LnL is a nightmare with 9mm and Glock primers flowing around the pin. Easiest thing for me to do was fight the machine for five months and then ask Hornady for my money back. Which I am glad they did and I got a 650 that works with the primer flow issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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