Data Overload

[pac1911]

Maybe, I'm just figuring something out that you guys figured out a long time ago, but here goes anyway.

I have been working to find a new better load for .40. I'm switching from 180 over clays to 180 or 200 over vv340. (at least that is my plan today.)

The long and short of it is pretty simple. It takes a tremendous amount of time and money to find the load that works for you. This whole sport is such an endless learning process it can be overwhelming.

So to cut to the chase, what process have you used to find your favorite load? did you load up your buddies favorite and conclude that since it went major and didn't blow up the gun that it must be the load for you, or were you like a mad scientist in the lab working day and night to find what is perfect.

Maybe more importantly, how did you know you found the PERFECT load.

Thanks for the info, if you see a guy at the range with glazed over eyes muttering 5.6, no 5.7 of course 5.7, yes 1.215". Yes load long to reduce pressure, yes 7.5, 7.5. Small rifle for sure small rifle, It's me, say hi.

pc

[EricW]

Just pick a load and shoot the damned gun.

For many people dorking around with their reloader is second hobby and they seem to be able to kill incredible amounts of time tweaking loads. For the rest of us, it's a few hours of boredom we endure each month so we can go do what we really enjoy.

[Tman33_99]

Get data that is approximate to what you want to replicate. Load a 10 or so rounds at that and a few grains above and a few grains below. Go the range and chrono. Pick the one you feel comfortable with on power factor. Now load up some more and check for accuracy. If still happy....Load up a bunch and practice....have fun.

For what it is worth. My VV-N340 load is 4.4 grains under 200 gr TC Precision for 168 PF

[Flexmoney]

Just pick a load and shoot the damned gun.

That might be a bit blunt...but, I thnk it is 100% accurate.

Pick one and practice!

[Guest bulm5]

There is no perfect load. Practice makes perfect. I am using 200 gr zeros because I can track the sights better. I guess to each his own. My friend tried my load and he could not get use to it. I AM currently using as previously mentioned 200 grs zero bullets with 4.6 gr V V 320 at 1.200 OAL. This is for a 1911 type gun. Be sure that your barrel is freebored to accept long loaded rounds.

[pac1911]

I understand the concept of getting beyond the basics to get to the shooting, but if it was that simple, just pick whatever makes major, we would all be shooting whatever gun we have in the safe. that isn't the case. We are shooting highly tuned race guns. Why aren't we tuning our loads to work to the max.

Why am I using 340? I got it off the prize table. It needs to be more scientific than this.

Don't get me wrong. time at the range or dry firing will pay off more than loading a gazillion different loads, but look at how much is posted here in the reloading section.

I'm just thinkin.

pc

[EricW]

You need to buy yourself a copy of "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing." In it you will discover that the #1 reason for failed homebrew is worrying.

[AikiDale]

I just switched from .45 to .40. I was going to use a 180 grain zero bullet over Clays. But then I started reading posts about the dangers of making major with Clays and .40. Since I load for my girl friend as well as myself I switched to TiteGroup and 200 grain Star bullets. Star 200 grain bullets measured 199 grains last weekend and made major, i.e., 166.5 PF loaded to 1.18" with 4.2 grains of TG out of her 5" SVI. Of course I do not recommend this load for anyone but me.

And what EricW said.......

NB:

Closed operator on a professional course. Not for the other use. Your milage may vary. Do not put into children.

[pac1911]

worrying and awareness are two different things. Are we even aware of what our handloading is doing to our shooting?

[EricW]

You're worrying again...

[diehli]

I haven't started reloading yet, though I've had a press set up and sitting for 7 or 8 months. I just don't have time to reload right now... that'll have to change with the Open gun, though.

My plan with the Limited gun was, and is, to put together some loads with Titegroup and 165 and 180 grain West Coast plated bullets, find the loads that make major and see what feels the best and what I can track the best. The one that feels the best will most likely be the one that tracks the best. Notice my use of the word "feel." It's completely subjective.

My plan with the Open gun: put together some loads with True Blue and 124 grain Zero JHP bullets, find the ones that make major and feel the best... then I'm done.

BTW, the loads I currently shoot in my Limited gun are from a local reloader that uses Berry's bullets and WW231 loaded to SAAMI length. No problem, though I figure I can build my own cheaper than $0.12 a piece... plus TG should be cleaner and I don't need to be shooting at 173-175 PF. Volume is my concern with reloading... tailoring (at least in the Limited gun) comes in at a distant second.

[kevin c]

EricW and Flex are right - take it from a (semi) reformed inverterate load tinkerer. First, there are too many permutations that you can try, given the nearly endless variety of components available. You could never find THE load in all that is possible. Second, your load requirements vary with the discipline you are shooting, and that maybe far more than just one load and gun. Third, your gun changes as soon as you rebarrel it, even with the exact same barrel from the same manufacturer (trust me, I know) and then, even if you had a near perfect load before, you'd have to start over from scratch. Fourth, YOU as a shooter are evolving, and what you may desire from your load may change with time. And fifth, as most above have said, practicing is far more important to your skill in shooting than the load itself.

Find a load that works for you, and stay with it. Change only when you need to when you, the gun or the components need to change.

That being said, if you love to tinker with your ammo (safely), and don't mind that time developing loads is time not shooting, then go for it.

[Tree Rat]

Just pick a load and shoot the damned gun.

For many people dorking around with their reloader is second hobby and they seem to be able to kill incredible amounts of time tweaking loads. For the rest of us, it's a few hours of boredom we endure each month so we can go do what we really enjoy.

Reloading........

For some it is the prelude to the event.........For others IT IS the event.

TR

[Robert Snyder]

I have tried Titegroup and found it to be very sooty, so it is sitting on the shelf.

I have a Limited 40 6" that I have found likes the 165gr westcoast RNFP using N-320. N-340 will work but you will have to experiment like we all have to find what will make major and still be controlable for you.

But once you find that load, STOP Searching!

[DogmaDog]

Lessee,

When I got my .40, I did it this way:

I bought lead bullets in the 2 weights available from my local source, and basically loaded them as long as possible (you have to get the lube groove into the case), such that the gun functions reliably.

I used two powders...Titegroup and WST.

I loaded batches of 50 rounds each in 3 loadings per bullet/powder combo, beginning with a starting load, and jumping 0.2 gr for each consecutive load. The result is 12 different loads (3 loads x 2 powders x 2 bullet weights).

I go chrono the loads, 10 rounds each, with a target PF of 170 (and more than one standard deviation above 165).

All the loads that make major, I then fire a couple groups offhand with them. It isn't a serious accuracy test--I'm only establishing that the load is sufficiently accurate...a 3" group at 15 yards would be fine.

I use the remaining bullets from the loads that make PF and are sufficiently accurate, to just shoot some casual bill drills or whatever, just to see if I perceive anything at all unusual/interesting/good/bad about the way the load feels. I did notice that Titegroup is insanely smokey with lead bullets.

Then I come home and plot up all the chrony data. I have Excel do a linear model of PF vs. Powder charge weight and then use that to guide any tweaking I may need (e.g. with WST and the lighter bullets, none of my 3 test loads quite made it to 170pf. 4.5 gr made about 166. The linear model helps to determine if I need another 0.2 gr, or just 0.1.

End result: Titegroup is out. The lighter bullets (175gr, I think) seemed to be more accurate than the 205 grainers (but not in any meaningful way), and I liked the feel a little better, so I'll stick with those.

Anyway, I think to really decide which load you "like" better, you'd need to shoot about 500 of each candidate, and get the timing down (see Burkett's "timing drills"). Once you're used to one load, the next load will always either suck in comparison, or be a trick of the day for you...and that effect will go away in a few hundred rounds. Basically the shooter is a large variable in the equation, and you just can't control for it, ever!

So when I do develop a load, I do it methodically, take careful measurements, and gather a lot of data for each time I break out the chronograph (I have to drive 1:15 to use it, and it basically consumes a practice session, whcih I don't get enough of as it is).

Sufficient power factor with reasonable deviation, sufficient accuracy, and nothing glaringly wrong are about the only things I feel I can solidly establish in only one range session, so that's what I shoot for during load development.

I may work on a steel load for my .40, but it will most likely use the same components I use now for the major load. Other than that, I probably won't do any more load development until my 8lb keg of WST runs out.

DogmaDog

[shred]

What I do (and I'm a tinkerer, but not wild about reloading in general) is to pick one popular load and go with it. If I hear about some wonderous new powder or bullet that sounds interesting, I'll get a small amount of it and load up a new batch. Then I'll go shoot them against each other-- the old standard and the new contender. If the new one isn't better in some meaningful way, the remaining rounds of it go into a baggie for future reference. As time goes by, you end up with a dozen bags of different loads and you can play A-vs-B to your hearts content.

[MoNsTeR]

When I got my .40, I already knew what I was going to load for it because I'd soaked up all the information I could find here and elsewhere.

I was able to conclude that 180gr was by far the most popular bullet weight, so even if 165 or 200 might be better I'd suffer less brain damage by starting with 180's.

Similarly, I learned that nearly everyone used N320 or Titegroup. Luckily I already had experience with both of these, and so picking N320 was an easy choice.

All it took was a little chrono work to settle on 5.0gr at 1.200" and I was set. At my liesure I'll play with different bullets and powders, but to begin with it really was smart to pick one and frickin' shoot it!

[.40AET]

I blew it the first time getting into IPSC and bought a .45 for limited. (What a mistake) So when I bought a .40 I asked everyone at 2 different clubs what they used for a load. Almost everyone agreed on vv N320 and 180g bullets. The "tinkerers" used N320 as a baselike for comparision, trying to find something better. My big experiment was changing to SR primers. I can use less powder and get a complete ignition, which I didn't get from SP primers. Is it the perfect load, who's to say, but it sure is popular enough that it can't suck. Dickin around with the powder measure drives me nuts. It throws 5.1 g of N320 consistantly and I have no intentions of changing for the next 12 pounds.

[slughammer]

Right now is prime season for shooting, find a load that makes PF and delivers the bullets into the A zone of a 50yard target. (You can't call shots that don't go where the gun was pointed.) Concentrate on the matches you have coming up.

I myself prefer the months of March and April for chasing my tail, though I've been known to start as early as Jan or Feb.

[mcoliver]

When I got my 40, I tried different loadings. Heads from 155 to 200. OAL from the factory spec out to 1.2". Powders like VVN320, 340, and some others my home range uses. Experimented a lot (...and trying very hard to resist the urge to do it again.)

Shot one batch, figured it to be "better" than the last one. Used the new favorite in a match but never see any improvements in performance attributed to the load used. So the cycle again begins....

Now I'm thinking it was probably too much effort... One thing I learned, though, is that one load may just be a tad more accurate than the others.

My suggestion: Tell yourself you like THIS load now. And do what everybody else had said about practicing with it.

Oh, and did I mention I don't even have my own reloading equipment yet?...

[Harmon]

i thought i had a sweet load with sr4756, my supply ran out, i bought more, now my same load isnt so sweet. convinced it isnt really in the load, i find any load is reasonably accurate and makes the PF works fine for me. the big issue now is how clean is it?

Clays and U Clays are the winners in my book, my pockets arent deep enoug yet for VihtaVouri powders, although i guess i will start when i win it off the prize table.

my 2 cents.