BJinPass Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 While scoring a USPSA match today, a question came up on the proper way to score this situation. The shoot target was in front of a no-shoot target. The shot in question was in the upper B-zone of the shoot target, and while mostly in the B, it broke the non-scoring perforation line, but DID NOT break out of the outer edge of the target and did NOT touch the no-shoot target. I scored this as a B hit. However, another RO insisted this is also a no-shoot, claiming that anything outside the no scoring perforation is technically not on the target in question and therefore touches whatever is behind it. USPSA Rule 9.5.3 says: "9.5.3 If a bullet diameter touches the scoring area of both a scoring target and a no-shoot, it will earn the score and incur the penalty." While this rule does not describe the situation I am talking about, it describes the situation I don't have. This shot clearly did not touch the scoring area of the no-shoot. I cannot find anything that says this shot should be scored as a B-hit AND a no-shoot. The attachment shows the scenario. NOTE: the shot DOES NOT break out of the brown area. The black circle represents the shot. The overlay confirmed the shot did not break out of the brown and touch the white. I certainly don't mind being wrong, but I cannot find a rule that indicates I am wrong. Does anyone have a definitive analysis of this shot and a rule to back that up? Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Actually, it did touch the scoring area of the no shoot. For all intents and purposes, the perforated line in the metric target is the border....had the bullet been entirely inside the perforated line, it would only score the hit and no penalty. As part of the bullet was outside of the scoring zone, and hit the no shoot, hit and no shoot penalty.....I had this explained to me for one of my shots in almost the identical scenario....I got the hit and the penalty.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 +1 The target edge itself means nothing. The outer perf is for all intents and purposes is the edge of the target. Very clearly a no shoot. Actually it only has to touch the perf to be a no shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHARLES D Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 exact same thing happened to me at the Nationals. The CRO gave me the hit + a No Shoot. After he explained it to me, it made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Please refer to 9.1.5 (et seq.) ... After you read that, then see also Appendix B3. The scoring area of a target, be it shoot or no-shoot, is delimited by the line seperating the scoring area from the non-scoring border. Hence, a round which touches or breaks that line earns whatever it strikes behind it. (Note ... A bullet which touches or breaks a line for a non-scoring border IS NOT wholly within the scoring area!) The correct call for your photo is B/NS. Edited January 9, 2012 by Schutzenmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJinPass Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Thank you to all the people who answered. I see rule 9.1.5.3 actually does answer my original question. I was wrong and I now agree that the correct score is B + no-shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz2011 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It should be scored as a B and one no shoot.The hit on the target only has to touch the outside line and it will incur the noshoot behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErichF Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Advantage = 9mm. Smaller hole, less "bleed over" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 A simple way to look at is what would the call be if the targets were reversed? Breaking the perf on the NS would have given the shooter the B hit even if it did not go outside the outer border of the NS target. You break the perf and what ever is behind it is also scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You break touch the perf and what ever is behind it is also scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You break touch the perf and what ever is behind it is also scored. True More correct would be if the overlay touches the perf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelDown Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And if the targets were reversed believe me the shooter would be arguing for the points for the B hit. Game plays both ways, B, NS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby hated Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 i can hear a DANG! go out when the shooter walked up to see his hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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