new solo very-very slow

[dauntedfuture]

I used to shoot 3.2 solo 1000 with 147 Lead. I made the transition to jacketed bullets at the same time that i got some new solo. Last range sesstion 865 fps for 147 Zero with 3.6 SOLO and remington primers. Thats quite a bump to get ths same velocity that i was getting from lead. Any similar experiences with new solo? Gun is 5" M&P.

[twodownzero]

I've needed 3.4-3.5 to make 920 or so for the last two 8 lb jugs with both lead and moly. 3.2 seems pretty low. 3.6 for jacketed seems entirely fine. I'm surprised you don't need more. Jacketed bullets require more powder.

[DWFAN]

3.2-3.4 was my old lot, the "new lot" 1920(1930) (dated February something) take 3.7 or 3.8 to give me a decent buffer for hot days.

Edited January 4, 2012 by DWFAN

[blind bat]

I used up my last jug of Solo a few months ago but I seem to recall having to push close to 4gr to make 135PF with a MG 147gr CMJ (known to be a slow bullet).

As a side note, when I finished up the jug of S1000 I decided to pick up a few 1lb bottles of WST. The first bottle I had was significantly slower than the other two. It took me 5gr of WST to make 135pf with a 124gr JHP. The bottles from a newer lot only required 4.4gr to make the same PF. Granted the weather is >40 degrees cooler now so WST is either very temp sensitive or the formulation changed between lots. I'm going to set aside 100 rounds from my current WST batch and chrono some every couple of months through the summer to find out for sure.

[jar]

3.2-3.4 was my old lot, the "new lot" 1920 (dated February something) take 3.7 or 3.8 to give me a decent buffer for hot days.

Yup, took 3.7 of lot 1920 to get around 900-920 fps with a precision 147gr moly.

Edited January 3, 2012 by jar

[DWFAN]

snip.. Granted the weather is >40 degrees cooler now so WST is either very temp sensitive or the formulation changed between lots...snip

Yes WST is reverse temp sensitive, just like Solo1k.

[9mmMike]

Lead shoots faster than copper because of differences in softness. More pressure, hence a higher charge weight in powder, is required to move copper at the same velocities you are used to getting with lead. Powder should be fine, as they take many measures to make sure a batch of solo bought 3 years ago is the same as solo bought today.

Edited January 3, 2012 by 9mmMike

[DWFAN]

Lead shoots faster than copper because of differences in softness. More pressure, hence a higher charge weight in powder, is required to move copper at the same velocities you are used to getting with lead. Powder should be fine, as they take many measures to make sure a batch of solo bought 3 years ago is the same as solo bought today.

No, my difference was with the same bullet. Nothing changed except the powder. According to the interwebs, Accurate has acknowledged the lot to lot variances, because they say it should be used as a shotgun powder (where supposed variances wouldnt show as much), not pistol. Hence why their pistol data is also so out of date.

[JON]

My experience is from lot to lot it can change by up to .5 tenths of a grain with the same bullets.

[BMartens]

Slight thread drift... Do any of you Solo 1000 users know if lot 1877 is fast or slow? I've been wanting to try this powder in 9 & 40 for a long time. Got lots of data scribbled down but, don't know if I have a slow or fast batch on hand.

[DWFAN]

Slight thread drift... Do any of you Solo 1000 users know if lot 1877 is fast or slow? I've been wanting to try this powder in 9 & 40 for a long time. Got lots of data scribbled down but, don't know if I have a slow or fast batch on hand.

I think that was the same lot # as my faster one above. I'll see if I still have the bottle at home tonight.

*I dont still have that one..*

Edited January 3, 2012 by DWFAN

[noylj]

The strange thing about lead vs. jacketed is:

Lead will produce the velocity with less powder than jacketed.

Lead will produce, often, nearly the same pressure as jacketed for a given velocity.

Lead should be no harder to start moving, but should be much easier to push down the barrel once it is moving, thus one would expect higher velocity for a given charge weight.

Next, there is a very good reason why a new powder lot always calls for reworking you load. This is much less of an issue with charge weights over 10gn, but low charge weights of a fast powder is very sensitive to lot number change.

Best is to buy 8# of any powder you decide on.

[gigamortis]

The one time I tried Solo 1000 was all in on an 8lb jug. Of course, Murphy was looking out for me once again as my batch ended up being one of the slow batches. I was having to go 3.8gr just to barely squeak by with 860fps with a 147gr Berry's plated. That load was rather stiff feeling for a 147. The same 147gr bullet loaded with Titegroup was softer feeling while running faster at 875 fps.

[slowhand23]

Slight thread drift... Do any of you Solo 1000 users know if lot 1877 is fast or slow? I've been wanting to try this powder in 9 & 40 for a long time. Got lots of data scribbled down but, don't know if I have a slow or fast batch on hand.

Lot #1877 was the first lot of Solo 1k that I tried in 9mm. Liked it enough to buy a 4 lb jug but it was lot #1930 which avg 70 f/s slower than #1877 out of a M&P9 (147 Ranier @ 3.6g). I'd like to find more #1877!

[9mmMike]

Lead shoots faster than copper because of differences in softness. More pressure, hence a higher charge weight in powder, is required to move copper at the same velocities you are used to getting with lead. Powder should be fine, as they take many measures to make sure a batch of solo bought 3 years ago is the same as solo bought today.

No, my difference was with the same bullet. Nothing changed except the powder. According to the interwebs, Accurate has acknowledged the lot to lot variances, because they say it should be used as a shotgun powder (where supposed variances wouldnt show as much), not pistol. Hence why their pistol data is also so out of date.

You said you switched to jacketed when you got new powder. Accurate shows loads for Solo in 9mm, although using it with 147 grain, it isn't the best performer. Good luck!

Edited January 4, 2012 by 9mmMike

[redwoods]

I have lot 1877 and had to use .5 more grains than my last jug. I am not sure of my last jug, but with my 1877 jug...

5.0-5.2 grains

1.190 oal

180 gr. plated 40 cal.

my jug before 1877 took 4.5-4.6 gr. to make the same pf. I was loading to 1.195 oal, so it was a little longer.

all this was with a 40sw out of a 5" 1911 govt barrel.

Randy

[twodownzero]

Accurate shows loads for Solo in 9mm, although using it with 147 grain, it isn't the best performer. Good luck!

What do you mean by "it isn't the best performer"?

I haven't found anything as good as Solo 1000 for 9mm Minor.

Edited January 4, 2012 by twodownzero

[9mmMike]

Accurate shows loads for Solo in 9mm, although using it with 147 grain, it isn't the best performer. Good luck!

What do you mean by "it isn't the best performer"?

I haven't found anything as good as Solo 1000 for 9mm Minor.

Sorry.. I meant it isn't the best for making maximum velocity in relationship to pressure. In minor yeah, go for it.

[pbairborne]

My first 8 lb jug of S-1000 was lot 1624. With 147 gr Precisions it took 3.3gr to make a 132 PF. When that ran out I bought 8 lb of lot 1930. It took a full 4.0gr to make the same 132 PF. Now that jug is almost empty and I'm going to have to buy powder from yet another lot. Not looking forward to doing chrono work when it is below freezing outside.

[twodownzero]

Accurate shows loads for Solo in 9mm, although using it with 147 grain, it isn't the best performer. Good luck!

What do you mean by "it isn't the best performer"?

I haven't found anything as good as Solo 1000 for 9mm Minor.

Sorry.. I meant it isn't the best for making maximum velocity in relationship to pressure. In minor yeah, go for it.

Only the slowest powder practical for a given case and bullet combination will maximize that. While that might be an excellent strategy for choosing rifle powders (and, indeed, it's one of my primary considerations for rifles), I haven't found too many handgun cartridges that I load that way. The only ones I've ever loaded in that manner are for revolvers and pistols designed to be used against game or for much longer shots (those that come to mind are .357 Magnum, .454 Casull, and .460 S&W Magnum, just to name a few that I've actually loaded).

My handgun ammunition, and I suspect that of most of the people here, needs to make power factor, shoot sufficiently accurate to hit A's at any distance I may have to shoot in a match, and minimize the subjective component of "felt" recoil. Solo 1000 and 147 grain bullets are the best combo I've used thus far for that application.

Since you're new here, I should point out that this is probably also true for the overwhelming majority of people posting here.

Also, I should point out that before I got more serious into competitive shooting and was just loading for practice, I still loaded fairly mild ammo with medium speed powders (Accurate #5 was my powder of choice). This forum helped me find faster burning, cleaner powders that recoiled slightly less, but I just want to point out that maximizing velocity--even then--was not my goal.

Factory ammo is also loaded to about the middle of its potential for a given cartridge.

Either way, loading to a higher pressure tends to produce cleaner ammo and more complete combustion of the powder, so the choice of powders determines the velocity primarily.

Back to the topic, many have raved about N320 as good for 9mm. I would love to find another powder that is similar in price to Solo 1000, has the low recoil, and has more published data for 9mm (which would indicate to me that their ballisticians were more confident in its use for 9mm), but I haven't found that yet. Vihtavuori is way too expensive for me to consider it; if only on principle, it is not competitive with other powders.

I haven't tried Bullseye either, but I suspect that if it doesn't suffer from the same problems as Clays, it'd be a good choice. I also haven't tried Accurate #2, and I suspect it's about in the same range as well.

Edited January 5, 2012 by twodownzero

[Tom E]

I like Solo 1000. I just finished an 8 lb jug, lot #1624 and am starting lot #1930. I found 1930 is 4.5% slower (velocity) than 1624 with the same weight powder charge. These were shot back to back on the same day for comparison. Loaded same day, same (un-touched) settings, with just the powder measure being dumped and refilled. The same powder measure setting threw the same weight charge with both lots but the "new" lot, #1930, gave 4.5% slower velocity.

As for reverse temp sensitive, yes it is but I only found ~1% difference. Tested same day, back to back, same batch of ammo, hot ones sitting on the dash (80 F ambient) in the sun, cold ones spent the previous night in my zero degree F Freezer and were transported in a cooler. This gave, at minimum, a 60 degree F ammo temp difference. It is reverse temp sensitive but I can't find enough difference that's it's a bid deal. Light conditions at the chrono and batch to batch loading variances will make more difference.

I tested the two lots because I needed to know to adjust my loads for the new lot. I'll do the same for the next lot when the 1930 jug gets low. The temp sensitive I checked because of the nonsense I see posted where someone shot one day and then shot another day, different chrono, different ammo batch, different conditions and then assumes the difference is the powder being temp sensitive. I've seen some claim 5+% difference for a 20 or 30 degree temp change. I did this test a long time ago with WST and the difference with temp was similarly small.

[pbairborne]

After reading all the posts about S-1000 and seeing that my jug (lot 1930) probably only has a pound or so left in it, I went out and bought a new 8 lb jug (lot 2227). Since today was really nice for Cleveland in January, I decided to go out and chrono the new powder. Because of the variability reported with lots of Solo-1000, I thought that I'd post the data here to give other Forum users an idea of where to start their load development. My gun is a G-34 with a Wolf drop in barrel. And the chrono was a CED M2. All ammo was mixed range brass, loaded with 147gr Precision moly coated bullets, with COL of 1.125 a crimp of 0.376 and Winchester small pistol primers.

My Radio Shack electronic temp gauge read 61 degrees at the range. I ran 10 rounds of my previous load of 4.0gr of lot 1930. Here's the data listed in the following order: powder wt (lot)/High/Low/Average/ES/SD/PF.

4.0 (1930)/955/922/939/32.9/11.4/138. Last time I chrono'd this load I got PF=131 at 75 degrees.

And here's the data on the new lot:

3.1 (2227)/892/818/836/74.9/20.8/122.9

3.3 (2227)/870/840/855/30.6/8.0/125.7

3.5 (2227)/889/858/878/31.6/10.4/129.1

3.7 (2227)/925/893/907/32.1/8.0/133.3

3.9 (2227)/944/916/926/28.7/8.0/136.1

4.0 (2227)/992/924/955/68/17.7/140.4

So from the data one might argue that lot 2227 is slightly faster than 1930, but I'd sure want more data before I made that claim. It looks to me that for my G34, 3.7 grains of lot 2227 ought to do the trick. I'm sure that I'll run it again after the spring thaw here. Of course, YMMV.