3 Gun Nation Tour 2012

[Jadeslade]

The match is gone. Not the only range in Minnesota. used as an example of the changing nature of 3 Gun events. Back on topic, thanks.

[Jesse Tischauser]

So in the end 3GN should be looking for ways to bring more guys to the firing line allowing more opportunities to do what we do SHOOT and compete and battle it out in the trenches. Having as many people fight it out at every match for points working to be in that magic number that starts the shoot out at the end of the year is what the season should be about. Not put 90% of the shooters in the stands watching 10% of the guys hooking and jabbing! If you are content to sit and watch the others shoot and dont want to be part of the action then its time to retire.

3 Gun Nation isn't the USPSA. They are not in charge of making 3 gun better for all of us to enjoy. They are a for profit business. I think was can all agree that in the big scheme of things it is in their best interest to get more shooters playing the game. But currently they need more viewers watching their show. More vieweres means more $ simple as that. The past format obviously must not have been making the cut or they wouldn't have changed it.

[P.E. Kelley]

So in the end 3GN should be looking for ways to bring more guys to the firing line allowing more opportunities to do what we do SHOOT and compete and battle it out in the trenches. Having as many people fight it out at every match for points working to be in that magic number that starts the shoot out at the end of the year is what the season should be about. Not put 90% of the shooters in the stands watching 10% of the guys hooking and jabbing! If you are content to sit and watch the others shoot and dont want to be part of the action then its time to retire.

3 Gun Nation isn't the USPSA. They are not in charge of making 3 gun better for all of us to enjoy. They are a for profit business. I think was can all agree that in the big scheme of things it is in their best interest to get more shooters playing the game. But currently they need more viewers watching their show. More vieweres means more $ simple as that. The past format obviously must not have been making the cut or they wouldn't have changed it.

While I do not have all the details 3GN is working to produce a Club Tour or series for 2012 . Match format to parallel the Pro Tour. Square range, easy to set-up complete with rules-set.

They are giving back to the sport in many ways.

Patrick

Edited January 30, 2012 by P.E. Kelley

[Jesse Tischauser]

I see the reason behind what 3GN is trying to implement but I do have a few concerns that maybe addressed. I myself had been looking foward to participate in the 3GN tour but I have a very tight schedual that has to be planed to the second... with that comes the qualifier. (I still plan on attending the Divisional series and ARFCOM). Only having one may raise maybe a few gripes on attendance and availiability on time/dates. To not go into equipment failures/operator erros, etc. which primarily is situation awareness and pre maintance checks, comes things that no one has control over. To cover basics is being sick, family emergencies, etc, and in my case military commitments that supersedes anything preplaned and taking leave days for even at last minute. If someone has to register for ONE day and something comes up for just that ONE day, in theory, it ruins there chance to participate in the tour and then have to wait an entire year.

Next is location. Regardless if you have all the time in the world, money, sponsors, etc. some may not be able to drive/fly or have the avialable funds to make somethings that could be on the other side of the nation. Maybe having two to three to cover in case on any of said issues that may arise. Now I can see the arguments of some will shoot all of the qualifiers and may crowd registration (only allow to shoot one), equal and same stages and formats, bad/different weather, etc... you name it. No topic will ever go untouched without a counter point, and with that nothing I would like to see implemented can be perfect for every one.

With that said, and with many also stating that 3Gun is a growing sport, starting out with a really small selection and somewhat a sudden abrubt notice for this year does throw some into a rant (I myself would liked a heads up on the format change and not crush my spirts for this year). Well, I roll with the punches and deal. The fact that I dont have the opportunity to participate in one or the other based off something I had no control over from last year... not necessarily the subject matter but the principle... Well, Ill leave it at that.

This going to be the PRO Series. Here is the definition of Professional from one internet dictionary...engaged in an occupation as a paid job rather than as a hobby.

If you want to be a PRO this takes priority. You think Tom Brady is gonna miss the Super Bowl for anything? I know that is the way that I am approaching it. I will be at the 2 required matches and one of the 3 regular matches come hell or high water.

[Jesse Tischauser]

So in the end 3GN should be looking for ways to bring more guys to the firing line allowing more opportunities to do what we do SHOOT and compete and battle it out in the trenches. Having as many people fight it out at every match for points working to be in that magic number that starts the shoot out at the end of the year is what the season should be about. Not put 90% of the shooters in the stands watching 10% of the guys hooking and jabbing! If you are content to sit and watch the others shoot and dont want to be part of the action then its time to retire.

3 Gun Nation isn't the USPSA. They are not in charge of making 3 gun better for all of us to enjoy. They are a for profit business. I think was can all agree that in the big scheme of things it is in their best interest to get more shooters playing the game. But currently they need more viewers watching their show. More vieweres means more $ simple as that. The past format obviously must not have been making the cut or they wouldn't have changed it.

While I do not have all the details 3GN is working to produce a Club Tour or series for 2012 . Match format to parallel the Pro Tour. Square range, easy to set-up complete with rules-set.

They are giving back to the sport in many ways.

Patrick

That is excellent news! Where are y'all finding this great info? I get lost on the 3GN site. That picture of Jansen Jones shooting that Benelli alwasy makes me loose my train of thought.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

I see the reason behind what 3GN is trying to implement but I do have a few concerns that maybe addressed. I myself had been looking foward to participate in the 3GN tour but I have a very tight schedual that has to be planed to the second... with that comes the qualifier. (I still plan on attending the Divisional series and ARFCOM). Only having one may raise maybe a few gripes on attendance and availiability on time/dates. To not go into equipment failures/operator erros, etc. which primarily is situation awareness and pre maintance checks, comes things that no one has control over. To cover basics is being sick, family emergencies, etc, and in my case military commitments that supersedes anything preplaned and taking leave days for even at last minute. If someone has to register for ONE day and something comes up for just that ONE day, in theory, it ruins there chance to participate in the tour and then have to wait an entire year.

Next is location. Regardless if you have all the time in the world, money, sponsors, etc. some may not be able to drive/fly or have the avialable funds to make somethings that could be on the other side of the nation. Maybe having two to three to cover in case on any of said issues that may arise. Now I can see the arguments of some will shoot all of the qualifiers and may crowd registration (only allow to shoot one), equal and same stages and formats, bad/different weather, etc... you name it. No topic will ever go untouched without a counter point, and with that nothing I would like to see implemented can be perfect for every one.

With that said, and with many also stating that 3Gun is a growing sport, starting out with a really small selection and somewhat a sudden abrubt notice for this year does throw some into a rant (I myself would liked a heads up on the format change and not crush my spirts for this year). Well, I roll with the punches and deal. The fact that I dont have the opportunity to participate in one or the other based off something I had no control over from last year... not necessarily the subject matter but the principle... Well, Ill leave it at that.

This going to be the PRO Series. Here is the definition of Professional from one internet dictionary...engaged in an occupation as a paid job rather than as a hobby.

If you want to be a PRO this takes priority. You think Tom Brady is gonna miss the Super Bowl for anything? I know that is the way that I am approaching it. I will be at the 2 required matches and one of the 3 regular matches come hell or high water.

Jesse - well put. Please post a pic of your big Gold Key when you get a minute.

[Stlhead]

I enjoyed three gun before 3 gun nation. The matches where full, the prize tables where rich, and people had plenty to bitch about. Then comes three gun nation, the matches are still full, the prize tables are still good, especially considering the economy, and people still have plenty to bitch about. People like to bitch, I like to bitch, and I really like to read long threads full of people bitching, it entertains me.

There is a widely held opinion that any publicity, is good publicity, and as such the thought is that having our sport on TV is good, even if the show does not especially appeal to the participants. The thing to remember is that the purpose of the "Tour" is to make a TV show, and nothing more, and the purpose of the TV show is to make money. It is a commercial enterprise with the ultimate goal of returning equity on the investment of the proprietors. In the past the producers of the show enjoyed the privilege of getting to film the matches (that where organized, financed, and staffed by others, most of which for the love of the sport) and then use that film for a comical purpose without compensating the matches with anything other than the publicity generated by being televised. Was this a fair trade? Has 3GN benefited our sport? Will it benefit our sport in the future? Does anyone really care, or are some people just mad they didn't get a fancy "PRO" card to keep in their wallets? We can continue to debate these questions and even more, as I said, everyone likes a good thread on the internet, but in truth, we are just typing shit that a relatively small group of people will even read. Only time will tell if 3GN is a good thing for our sport, and even after it is all over there will still be people who have different opinions on the subject.

There are matches to plan, stages to design, ammo to load, and work to do to earn money to afford to indulge our rather expensive shooting habits. I for one plan on using my time to enjoy my shooting hobby, and not worrying about matches that I would not go shoot anyway, or who shoots them or how they get invited. For me three gun is not about shoot offs, prize money, or TV. It's about the experience of challenging yourself to improve. It is about spending precious time with friends doing something that I enjoy; 5 stand with the boys after the match, beer and steaks at the hotel after a long day, bloody noses, skinned knees, BJ slamming into the stairs at the end of the zip line, killer wind and crazy shots, Ian jumping up on a table to shoot over a wall, Chuck's gun belt falling off during a stage, young Mr. Payne skiing down a muddy embankment like he planned it, and watching in awe as Mr. Cooley rocked the long range stage at IM last year. Those are the reasons that I travel all over the country shooting matches, spend tons of cash on guns and ammo components, and waste my time reading and replying to internet forums that will probably ever get read by a few people anyway.

[Tizzle]

Hmmm, so basically there are now 2 matches this year that I am not allowed to shoot at because I'm not a pro and those two matches weren't on the roster last year? In addition, I can still shoot all of the other matches and continue to compete against the best in the business with the only exception being that I can't shoot against them in a shoot off after the match? Sounds fine to me. If I really had a problem with this I guess I'd just go out and win all of the matches I'm allowed to shoot in, take first pick at the prize table, and then let everyone complain for me that I'm not allowed to compete in the shoot off.

[Stlhead]

This going to be the PRO Series. Here is the definition of Professional from one internet dictionary...engaged in an occupation as a paid job rather than as a hobby.

If you want to be a PRO this takes priority. You think Tom Brady is gonna miss the Super Bowl for anything? I know that is the way that I am approaching it. I will be at the 2 required matches and one of the 3 regular matches come hell or high water.

By that definition anyone who has ever taken a shock buff of a prize table is a pro then? A pro is a person who earns his living off of an activity, not a guy who earns a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars playing a game in his or her spare time. If you need to schedule time off to go compete in a match you are by definition not a pro, no matter how good you are. And comparing anything 3 gun to the Super Bowl is just silly.

[jdknotts1]

For me three gun is not about shoot offs, prize money, or TV. It's about the experience of challenging yourself to improve. It is about spending precious time with friends doing something that I enjoy;

I doubt any of us would do these things if we didn't enjoy them. However, I would not throw away tons of money on travel, lodging, ammo, etc.. on something I can do with friends and at work for a lot less money. I myself like the challenge. If I shoot well, I want to be in the money. That prize table is a BIG factor in funding my shoots. Granted I've only shot in one match. But I ended up coming out of it with a $600 pistol that paid for my match fees and loding.

I will continue to shoot the matches. But at least before there was a chance, however slim, that I could make it to a shoot off. Now there is ZERO chance.

[smokshwn]

For me three gun is not about shoot offs, prize money, or TV. It's about the experience of challenging yourself to improve. It is about spending precious time with friends doing something that I enjoy;

I doubt any of us would do these things if we didn't enjoy them. However, I would not throw away tons of money on travel, lodging, ammo, etc.. on something I can do with friends and at work for a lot less money. I myself like the challenge. If I shoot well, I want to be in the money. That prize table is a BIG factor in funding my shoots. Granted I've only shot in one match. But I ended up coming out of it with a $600 pistol that paid for my match fees and loding.

I will continue to shoot the matches. But at least before there was a chance, however slim, that I could make it to a shoot off. Now there is ZERO chance.

You won a pistol in a 3 Gun Nation shootoff?

Or did you win it off the prize table that will still be at every match you may shoot?

Edited January 30, 2012 by smokshwn

[jdknotts1]

For me three gun is not about shoot offs, prize money, or TV. It's about the experience of challenging yourself to improve. It is about spending precious time with friends doing something that I enjoy;

I doubt any of us would do these things if we didn't enjoy them. However, I would not throw away tons of money on travel, lodging, ammo, etc.. on something I can do with friends and at work for a lot less money. I myself like the challenge. If I shoot well, I want to be in the money. That prize table is a BIG factor in funding my shoots. Granted I've only shot in one match. But I ended up coming out of it with a $600 pistol that paid for my match fees and loding.

I will continue to shoot the matches. But at least before there was a chance, however slim, that I could make it to a shoot off. Now there is ZERO chance.

You won a pistol in a 3 Gun Nation shootoff?

Or did you win it off the prize table that will still be at every match you may shoot?

You're right. I am new to this so I will concede to just watching the thread. I really don't know enough to have anything to say.

[Jesse Tischauser]

This going to be the PRO Series. Here is the definition of Professional from one internet dictionary...engaged in an occupation as a paid job rather than as a hobby.

If you want to be a PRO this takes priority. You think Tom Brady is gonna miss the Super Bowl for anything? I know that is the way that I am approaching it. I will be at the 2 required matches and one of the 3 regular matches come hell or high water.

By that definition anyone who has ever taken a shock buff of a prize table is a pro then? A pro is a person who earns his living off of an activity, not a guy who earns a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars playing a game in his or her spare time. If you need to schedule time off to go compete in a match you are by definition not a pro, no matter how good you are. And comparing anything 3 gun to the Super Bowl is just silly.

I am not going to agrue about the definition of a professional with you.

My earlier comment did not compare 3 gun to the Super Bowl or 3 gun nation to the NFL even. I was comparing the dedication of a person who I think we can all agree is a professional athlete, Tom Brady to myself in regards to our committment to the sport we participate in.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Jesse - well put. Please post a pic of your big Gold Key when you get a minute.

I do not take the job as the Mayor of 3 Gun lightly. I like to keep them on one of those handy little retractable cords like the school janitor always had.

[pigfish73]

I'm not sure if these questions have been answered already. If they have, will someone point me in the right direction.

In the Divisional Series:

1. Will 3GN take your top 3 scores for your end of the year standings, or do you need to shoot in as many of the divisional matches as you can to rack up more points?

2. If you shoot in one of the Pro Host matches will the points there count toward your divisional points? For example: I am already entered in LaRue because it's close to home and a bunch of my friends are shooting it. I was planning on shooting the ProAm and FNH because I shot them last year and had a great time doing it. If the Pro Host matches don't count toward divisional points then I will need to shoot some more Divisional matches, correct?

Thanks

[MarkCO]

Can we maybe give this thread a rest until say Thursday? It seems there is a lot of assumption, gnashing of teeth, and discomfort. Only one person who has posted on this thread really knows what is going on, and he has not released all of the details yet. The rest are piecing together small tidbits of info with assumptions and what they heard from so and so or purely speculating.

I'm not sure there is a "Forum" version of "Quiet Game" but I think if we play it, we will avoid some embarassment and emotional drainage when we see what is actually going to happen.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Can we maybe give this thread a rest until say Thursday? It seems there is a lot of assumption, gnashing of teeth, and discomfort. Only one person who has posted on this thread really knows what is going on, and he has not released all of the details yet. The rest are piecing together small tidbits of info with assumptions and what they heard from so and so or purely speculating.

I'm not sure there is a "Forum" version of "Quiet Game" but I think if we play it, we will avoid some embarassment and emotional drainage when we see what is actually going to happen.

Where is the fun in that?

[smokshwn]

Hmmm, so basically there are now 2 matches this year that I am not allowed to shoot at because I'm not a pro and those two matches weren't on the roster last year? In addition, I can still shoot all of the other matches and continue to compete against the best in the business with the only exception being that I can't shoot against them in a shoot off after the match? Sounds fine to me. If I really had a problem with this I guess I'd just go out and win all of the matches I'm allowed to shoot in, take first pick at the prize table, and then let everyone complain for me that I'm not allowed to compete in the shoot off.

[Okiexd]

Hey Jesse if u need an extra retractable little thingy I got one I can drop off next weekend at okcgc

[Lead-Head]

I am shooting the "non-invitation" only pro-matches but i am not a pro. These matches cannot be used for divisional points as to not cause the Pros who shoot other divisons to be unlikely to win their prospective divisonal series as well. OK with that, after all if they are the best in that divison as well, they should win it too.

What about divisional series? You can choose to shoot in the divisional series. You are still going to be shooting aginst those same pros shooting TO at the Pro other matches, but now they may switch over to another divison to try thier hand at the $5000 put up by Hornady.

I am not scheduled to shoot but one divisonal match at this point and since a divorce is far more expensive than any cash award I could hope for i think my match schedule is pretty much set.

So, if you are a limited, HM. open shooter willing to pay $25 to get into the divisional series at each match, make sure you are solid on shooting 3 of them, and that you have a solid chance, because you will still be taking on the best, if fact you may be taking on a stronger field of the best than what you have seen in past years.

[Jadeslade]

I enjoyed three gun before 3 gun nation. The matches where full, the prize tables where rich, and people had plenty to bitch about. Then comes three gun nation, the matches are still full, the prize tables are still good, especially considering the economy, and people still have plenty to bitch about. People like to bitch, I like to bitch, and I really like to read long threads full of people bitching, it entertains me.

There is a widely held opinion that any publicity, is good publicity, and as such the thought is that having our sport on TV is good, even if the show does not especially appeal to the participants. The thing to remember is that the purpose of the "Tour" is to make a TV show, and nothing more, and the purpose of the TV show is to make money. It is a commercial enterprise with the ultimate goal of returning equity on the investment of the proprietors. In the past the producers of the show enjoyed the privilege of getting to film the matches (that where organized, financed, and staffed by others, most of which for the love of the sport) and then use that film for a comical purpose without compensating the matches with anything other than the publicity generated by being televised. Was this a fair trade? Has 3GN benefited our sport? Will it benefit our sport in the future? Does anyone really care, or are some people just mad they didn't get a fancy "PRO" card to keep in their wallets? We can continue to debate these questions and even more, as I said, everyone likes a good thread on the internet, but in truth, we are just typing shit that a relatively small group of people will even read. Only time will tell if 3GN is a good thing for our sport, and even after it is all over there will still be people who have different opinions on the subject.

There are matches to plan, stages to design, ammo to load, and work to do to earn money to afford to indulge our rather expensive shooting habits. I for one plan on using my time to enjoy my shooting hobby, and not worrying about matches that I would not go shoot anyway, or who shoots them or how they get invited. For me three gun is not about shoot offs, prize money, or TV. It's about the experience of challenging yourself to improve. It is about spending precious time with friends doing something that I enjoy; 5 stand with the boys after the match, beer and steaks at the hotel after a long day, bloody noses, skinned knees, BJ slamming into the stairs at the end of the zip line, killer wind and crazy shots, Ian jumping up on a table to shoot over a wall, Chuck's gun belt falling off during a stage, young Mr. Payne skiing down a muddy embankment like he planned it, and watching in awe as Mr. Cooley rocked the long range stage at IM last year. Those are the reasons that I travel all over the country shooting matches, spend tons of cash on guns and ammo components, and waste my time reading and replying to internet forums that will probably ever get read by a few people anyway.

Stlhead-this is so right on, its not funny. With a name like stlhead and where you live-how do get time off from fishing? Excellent post.

[Bryan 45]

Rules are up. And there are some interesting ones....

http://3gunnation.com/the_series/rules

[Corey]

I see a lot about the matches the "Pros" have to shoot to qualify, but unless I missed something, I dont see anything that says the average joe can't shoot the same match? You wont be eligible for the shootoff, but you are still prize table eligible, correct?

[MarkCO]

I see a lot about the matches the "Pros" have to shoot to qualify, but unless I missed something, I dont see anything that says the average joe can't shoot the same match? You wont be eligible for the shootoff, but you are still prize table eligible, correct?

Corey, if you look at the link Bryan provided, there are a lot more announcements coming out today through Friday.

The two 3GN produced events are inviation only for the top 64 pros. The "hosted" events anyone who can get in can still shoot them and walk the prize table etc. as if 3GN did not even exist. For the Pros, they can get into the 3GN shoot-off in addition to whatever the host match does.

[Nuke8401]

Hope the non-pro match rules are similar:

4.1 No tracer, incendiary, armor piercing, steel jacketed or steel/Tungsten core ammunition is allowed.

A $100 fee shall be assessed for any competitor found in violation of rule (4.1) per each steel target engaged and or damaged. Fines will be made payable the day of the offense.

Cool rule for any match, might be hard to enforce.

6.2.4 Rifle supporting devices (i.e. bipods, etc.) are not allowed in this division.

So does this mean magazines(single or clamped pair) cannot be used as a bipod, just wondering how this is normally interpreted?

9.1 Scoring per stage will be straight time plus penalties

9.1.1 Any 3GN reactive paper target designated as a "shoot" target must have either one (1) ”Center” hit in the 8” Red circle OR have (2) hits anywhere inside the 17.25” Black scoring circle to avoid penalty.

Time plus and 2 anywhere, awesome.

Can't wait for the non-elite rules!

David E.