Lead bullets jamming

[dukeguy]

I just got my first order of lead bullets from MIssouri Bullets. I'm loading 9mm, .356, 125 grn. RN bullets.

The first one I loaded into my Tanfoglio Witness Match jammed. After getting the pistol apart I found that the round wouldn't seat into the chamber. It also would not slide all the way into a case gauge. So I checked some of the other rounds that had been loaded the same way and none of them would slide into the chamber or the case gauge.

The FMJ bullets I have been using were being loaded with the same basic specs. However, they were .355, 124 gn. RN bullets.

So is the difference in bullet size causing the problem, or is there something about lead bullet reloading I don't know about yet?

[Hi-Power Jack]

MIssouri Bullets. 9mm, .356, 125 grn. RN bullets.

The first one I loaded into my Tanfoglio Witness Match jammed. The FMJ bullets I have been using were being loaded with the same basic specs. However, they were .355, 124 gn. RN bullets.

Easiest thing to try is loading the MB's shorter (no shorter than 1.09")

and see if you can get them to seat properly - take the barrel out of

your gun, and load them by hand - simplest problem is that the bullets

are contacting the barrel grooves too early and seating them a little

shorter might solve the problem for you.

Could be something else, but I'd try this first because it's easy:)

I hope...

Good luck,

Jack

[DWFAN]

Those bullets for me, had to be run really, really short. They hit the rifling with anything longer than 1.09, and needed to be even shorter in my CZ's.

I quit using them because of this.

[Lead Head]

How ironic that this thread is in the "recent posts" list the minute I sign up. I cant say enough to warn people about Missouri Bullets, I've had nothing but trouble and worse that the troubled alloy is the malicious behavior of the owner who threatened to post my personal information on the Internet when I asked that they make good on the bad bullets I got from them. This explains it pretty well: Google Missouri Bullets "Hardness Optimized" and select the thread in the PAFOA Forum to see my post there, with pictures, on my Missouri Bullets 9MM problem. I'm new and cant post the URL yet. If someone who can will post it, it would be appreciated.

I tried shooting them through a good half dozen 9MM's and not a one would fire them without jamming or dangerously excessive barrel leading. If you search the gun forums, you'll find barrel leading the leading problem with users that aren't part of the posse of Forum Infomercial Posters like on The High Road and The Firing Line. My complaint went to the Federal Trade Commission and when I called to add information to my complaint, they said they didn't need anymore as the guy has already violated the law. My best bet for a refund might be the Postmaster General as he boasts of being the premier chef of alloy and labels his boxes with the Brinell Hardness of the bullets which you'll not find one in the box that is close to the specified hardness.

If you're looking for a good lead bullet supplier, PM me; the guy I buy from has many distinguished shooters that use his bullets exclusively and he supplies bullets to one of our armed forces competition teams; he knows his stuff. I don't want to get in trouble for advertising a vendor unless that's OK. This is my first post so I'm not up on the customs but was recommended to come here as there is little fighting for the purpose of fighting and being right. Too many forums lose their value after a band of "Good Old Boys' takeover and control what's right or wrong.

PS The post was issued an infraction because Missouri Bullets band of posters complained that unfavorable information is posted but it's all true and factual; even the BBB complaint which you can click on the link. I filed an additional BBB complaint based on breach of contract after determining the BHN of the bullets.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Lead Head

[67 LS1 Camaro]

Use a shorter OAL , just enough so the bullet does not touch the rifling . Use your barrel as a case gauge . For me when using lead bullets, case guage doesn't work .

[horseman]

I have shot about 20K of MBC 45 and 40 and like them a lot. No problems. However, just started loading for 9mm and tried some of their 125 lrn and 147 lfp. Loading for a M&P. I also found I had to go 1.115 OAL to get the 125's to chamber. I was loading fast powder and can not make 125 PF loading that short. The 147's would let me go to 1.160 no problem and I got along fine with those. The 125's are not going to work for me either.

[dukeguy]

I have tried shortening the OAL like everyone has suggested. I had gone from 1.140, which is the length my Match seems to run well on, down to 1.125 with no change. At that point I stopped, thinking it wasn't a length problem. So, I guess I need to go back to the bench and shorten them a little more.

Lead Head, I'm not sure how to respond. I read the post you referred to. Anybody else had problems with MB?

[DWFAN]

I've never been able to get them to not lead the barrel in 38, 9mm and .45. I shoot Moly/poly coated, or jacketed now.

Edited November 7, 2011 by DWFAN

[Matrix68]

I have been MB now for about a year...gone through ~4000 125gr 9mm with absolutely no issues. As far as the company itself...always nice/pleasant to work with. Talked to them a couple of times, when I had a few questions...and my order always arrives within days of placing it.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: You may want to check the actual diameter of the bullet. That may be causing your problem. I know I had to load shorter with my CZ Shadow I had. I was using a OAL of 1.125". I wanted to use my standard 1.140" Glock load so I reamed the barrel throat back so I could. It shot great after I did that with no more bullets catching on the rifling. I am using a different brand of bullets so I can't help with your bullets. Thanks, Eric

[98sr20ve]

I have tried shortening the OAL like everyone has suggested. I had gone from 1.140, which is the length my Match seems to run well on, down to 1.125 with no change. At that point I stopped, thinking it wasn't a length problem. So, I guess I need to go back to the bench and shorten them a little more.

Lead Head, I'm not sure how to respond. I read the post you referred to. Anybody else had problems with MB?

Look at the Lyman Load Manual. Lead is loaded a lot shorter then Jacketed. My 147gr Lyman bullets are loaded to 1.080" Anything longer and they touch the rifling. So loading a 124gr to 1.080 is nothing to worry about at all.

[mknpwr]

Been using Missouri Bullet for about 2 years now, great service, quick shipping, both 9mm and 45 ACP. 185 LSWC for the 45 and 125 softball for the 9mm. Never a leading problem in the Glock 17. 4.0 grains of w231 and an OAL of 1.100 works well for me. YMMV.

[dukeguy]

Wow, 1.080, 1.100...that's a lot shorter than I would have expected. Is that typical with all lead bullets?

[Lead Head]

Lead Head, I'm not sure how to respond. I read the post you referred to. Anybody else had problems with MB?

Don't worry about it, the bullets are all disassembled and the authorities will handle the quality issue. I'm just putting it out there so people aren't surprised if they have problems. Many people love them, others fit into my category; it's what makes the world go around.

[horseman]

Dukeguy, I would be and am concerned about compressing the powder charge with short OAL's. I have only be reloading a few years and am far from an expert. Bullet shape seems to drive how far out you can load to some degree. As I said the MBC 147's loaded to 1.160 which was the same as the factory fmj I had on hand. The 125's were sticking at 1.122. Different bullet shape allowing the 147's to extend out of the chamber without sticking I suppose.

[98006]

the situation with the MB 125 is that ogive is too round. most other bullets start getting pointy a lot earlier. you will need to run them short

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogive

Edited November 8, 2011 by 98006

[dukeguy]

Dukeguy, I would be and am concerned about compressing the powder charge with short OAL's. I have only be reloading a few years and am far from an expert. Bullet shape seems to drive how far out you can load to some degree. As I said the MBC 147's loaded to 1.160 which was the same as the factory fmj I had on hand. The 125's were sticking at 1.122. Different bullet shape allowing the 147's to extend out of the chamber without sticking I suppose.

I'm using Titegroup and using the lightest load recommended on the Hogdon load data page:

3.6 grn.

1.125 OAL

I'm concerned about rising pressure as well. Anybody else got any wisdom on this?

[98006]

make a dummy bullet and keep shortening the round till it go in and out of the barrel cleanly. then measure and decide if the length might be a problem

[98sr20ve]

Get a chrono and chrono it.

But think about it. If Lyman is listing their 147 gr bullet in their load manual with a OAL of 1.058 and their 120 gr bullet with a OAL of 1.068 then 1.080 is really not that short. Your just not used to loading lead. Look at a Lyman Load Manual.

[LexTalionis]

I shoot lead bullets almost exclusively, and all of mine have an unforgiving 0give radius. More so, I shoot a CZ75 that has a pretty tight barrel throat.

All that being said, you can load a lot shorter than 1.125. I've gone as short as 1.055 to get some bullets to work! You just have to realize that shortening the OAL increases chamber pressure... which is the same thing that adding more powder does. So if you subtract powder while decreasing the OAL, you should be in good shape.

If I were you, I would find an OAL that I knew chambered consistently in my gun. Don't tempt fate by trying to butt the bullet right up against the rifling. You'll inevitably get a round that was loaded too long and jam up your gun. Find the proper length then go a hundredth or two shorter. That way you know you're at 100% reliability. After that, work up a powder charge. Start very low (certainly below the manual's minimum load) and increase it in increments. Stop when the chrono says you're at a solid power factor. For what it's worth, I gained roughly 10 fps for every hundredth of an inch I compressed my OAL. But don't take that to the bank. Your own bullet and powder mix will act differently.

Hope that helps.

Edited November 8, 2011 by LexTalionis

[Lead Head]

Dukeguy, I would be and am concerned about compressing the powder charge with short OAL's. I have only be reloading a few years and am far from an expert. Bullet shape seems to drive how far out you can load to some degree. As I said the MBC 147's loaded to 1.160 which was the same as the factory fmj I had on hand. The 125's were sticking at 1.122. Different bullet shape allowing the 147's to extend out of the chamber without sticking I suppose.

I'm using Titegroup and using the lightest load recommended on the Hogdon load data page:

3.6 grn.

1.125 OAL

I'm concerned about rising pressure as well. Anybody else got any wisdom on this?

9MM and 40's are fast bullets for a handgun (not being a magnum load) and the way they get their speed is an ever increasing pressure from a slow burning powder. Titegroup is not far under Bullseye which is a real fast burning powder. An ideal powder for more authentic 9's is something like Alliant Power Pistol or even Unique which is a little faster than PP.

Now before you become offended because I said you're not using the right powder, I load my 9's with Bullseye but shoot them only at steel targets because the recoil is lower and with less powder on a progressive, they load faster. I load my target rounds with Unique because I get better accuracy results and I already inventory it.

This is just an FYI.

[Hi-Power Jack]

you can load a lot shorter than 1.125. I've gone as short as 1.055 ! shortening the OAL increases chamber pressure... which is the same thing that adding more powder So if you subtract powder while decreasing the OAL, you should be in good shape.

If I were you, I would find an OAL that I knew chambered consistently in my gun. Don't tempt fate by trying to butt the bullet right up against the rifling. You'll inevitably get a round that was loaded too long and jam up your gun. Find the proper length then go a hundredth or two shorter. That way you know you're at 100% reliability. After that, work up a powder charge. Start very low (certainly below the manual's minimum load) and increase it in increments. Stop when the chrono says you're at a solid power factor. Hope that helps.

+1. I have to agree. Lex has answered the entire

question, fully.

First, find your OAL that works, and then work up

slowly with a chrono = you can't lose that way.

You might find that you love your current bullets

and powder, or you may decide that there are better

bullets/powder out there for YOUR gun.

Good luck - welcome to the Quest for the Perfect

Ammo:)

Jack

[LexTalionis]

Lead bullets are a totally different kind of beast. They have a lot more idiosyncrasies than FMJ's do. I think you'll find that once you get your ammo running, you will hate how Titegroup works with the lead bullets. Faster powders tend to cause pretty bad leading in the barrel.

If you really want to get the lead running well (this doesn't apply to moly's necessarily), you'll probably have to switch to a slower powder. Like LeadHead said, Unique or Power Pistol are good places to start. I personally use WSF. You may still get some leading in your barrel (depending on a bunch of other factors), but it should be a manageable amount. My cast lead bullets lead my barrel, but I can go 500 rounds without seeing a dip in accuracy. After that, I either clean my barrel (a pain in the butt) or just shoot a mag of FMJ's through. That gets everything nice and clean.

Like I said, lead bullets are a whole different animal. But if you get them running, I guarantee you two things: 1) you'll save money 2) you'll understand reloading and what happens in your gun a lot better.

[flb]

I have not used their bullets yet, but I recently had the same problem with other cast bullets. I am shooting a custom 1911 in 9mm and the chamber is a little tight. The problem was solved by a slightly larger bell and a little more crimp. I had tried every thing I could think of,but this is what worked for me. I thought I had more than enough bell and crimp. The adjustment was not much , maybe a 1/16 of a turn. Hope this will help.

canthit

[dukeguy]

Thanks for all the input. Here's what I did today: I loaded 3.0, 3.3 and 3.4 of TG with an OAL of 1.08. All of them cycled the gun well and accuracy was good. One interesting note - the middle load of 3.3 produced a lot of smoke. But at any rate, I think the problem has been found.