ericf Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I use TG for both my 125gr Lead Rnd nose (9mm) as well as my 200 grn SWC (.45). It does work well, as long as your outdoors. I thought of switching (adding) Universal clays to my choices (it too will load both cal.), but have read here that it isn't smokeless (with lead). Universal MAY smoke Less than TG. But is it enough to justify the switch. Is there really any powder when combined in a load with lead bullets that is smokeless, or is it just some may smoke less.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Supposedly Solo 1000 and/or Winchester Super Target (a.k.a. WST) are the least smokey powders. Edited September 29, 2011 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8ring Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Universal Clays has less nitroglycerin than Titegroup and should make significantly less smoke. My only experience comparing these two powders with lead bullets has been in .38spl and .357 mag. That said, Universal Clays is probably a little too slow for what we do in .45 acp. Winchester Super Target and Alliant American Select produce little smoke with lead and are better for 200gr .45 acp. Hodgdon Clays and VV-N310 are great with lead 225-230gr loads. There is no published load data for WST in 9mm. The least smoke I've had with 9mm lead is using VV N-320 with moly-coated Billy Bullets. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForceLizard Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 WST works well with 45ACP LSWC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Solo 1000 and moly bullets == so little smoke that you can shoot them inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Universal smokes some with lead/moly but not nowhere near as much as Titegroup. Universal has too much recoil for my taste but burns clean. Just started using Solo 1000 and I like it alot so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g56 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The vast majority of the smoke you see when using lead bullets is from the bullet lube, not the powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 WST + Lead bullets works pretty well (I use it in 40 and 45), smokes much less than TG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I read this and I am always struck that nobody cares about accuracy. It is always smoke and ash that chooses a powder I shoot indoors with lead and have never even noticed my smoke, unless I think to watch... Shoot accurately and speed will come. Concentrate on the job and ignore everything else. Solo 1000 is a very good powder. I believe it is single-base, so no NG to create a lot of smoke or head. Clays is good, IMHO, only for .45 Auto and .38 Special light target loads. TG, in all my guns so far, has only performed moderately well in .38 Super at 750-850fps. AA2 and AA5 are often very accurate and they meter very well. AA% is almost scary how accurate it is in .40 S&W. I am disappointed in how little my guns (9x19, 9x21, .38 Super, .40S&W, and .45 Auto) like 231/HP38 and WST. From day-to-day, these two powders will give me 1.5" groups or 3.5" groups (it's not me, as other powders are "consistently" accurate at the same time). WSF has shown some promise for mid-range to near max loads. I would say that Silhouette is probably the most consistently accurate powder in all but the .45. For action shooting, where accuracy is not a driving issue, I would look to Solo 1000 and N320 for almost all cartridges being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 g56 wrote: The vast majority of the smoke you see when using lead bullets is from the bullet lube, not the powder. Since I have the equipment to cast, size, and lube my own boolits, I did experiments with some of my own boolits which didn't get lubed. The lube-less boolits still smoked when fired. I think it was with Clays powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericf Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 Accuracy does count. But I'm using this for the IPSC / IDPA games. The smokey issue only arises when shooting at indoor matches. Not so much from me, but out of concern for others. And As far as I know, there hasnt been any complaining, but it is a little annoying. My main concern is for others. I think I may give the S1000 or AA2 a try. It seems that S1000 has quite a following on this forum. I need to do a search for the AA2 and get the opinions of others. Bullseye used to be the powder I used back in the day (.38 spec). (probably before most were born). It too was smokey. But not like this TG. I just tossed a few LBS. of Bullseye that was 35+ years old. It appeared alright, but had a rancid smell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericf Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 There are a few mentions of HP38. And it has load data for both 9mm and .45. What has been the experience with this powder? Clean, accurate, smoke? I do like tightgroup, Snappy and accurate (for me). But for indoors, it's a little on the overly smokey side. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98006 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 4.4 Wst and a 200gr Swc is what i load my 45 ACP with. can do cloverleafs at 50 feet. Very low smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberiad Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 While I almost never shoot indoors, I use Solo 1000 and lead bullets and never notice any smoke. There is some, of course, but not enough to matter. The combination is quite accurate as well; less than 3" at 25 yards if I do my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 There are a few mentions of HP38. And it has load data for both 9mm and .45. What has been the experience with this powder? Clean, accurate, smoke? I do like tightgroup, Snappy and accurate (for me). But for indoors, it's a little on the overly smokey side. Thanks Probably less smoke than Titegroup, but more than Solo/wsf/wst. Its not really clean unless you run your loads a little hotter than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 If you want low end / soft .45acp, Universal clays is a poor choice. WST is what I'd recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericf Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Anyone have experience with AA5 and Lead? From reading the load data, AA5 appears to occupy a middle ground for both 9mm and .45. Sorry, I'm still trying to educate myself via others opinions. I do value the mass experiences that are available from this forum. I realize that I may still be whipping on the proverbial dead horse. If so, my apologies are extended. AA5 opinions please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 AA5 is an excellent powder in terms of accuracy and flexibility. It was, according to the original label, developed for mid-range .45 ACP and .38 Special loads. For bullseye/target purposes, it is a little slower than optimum. It seems at its very best in .38 Super and .40 S&W. I find AA2 produces the best and most consistent accuracy of any powder in light, target loads for .38 Special, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. In many cartridges, TiteGroup, AA2, and Clays have almost the exact same burn rate. AA2 still wins in my guns for accuracy over those two, though Clays is quite accurate in very light target loads for .45 ACP (650-750fps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodelta Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) I've loaded up 5.4g AA2 with some .45 200 lead SWC, and noticed less smoke than Clays (4.3g) or Bullseye (4.0g). The AA2 load only chrono'd around 820 fps so I need to go up a few grains to make power factor. Bullseye seemed to be the worst, but none of them really bother me. A guy I shoot with uses the Clays load, and we shoot inside a lot. I don't really notice the smoke when shooting or chasing a shooter with the timer. edit to add all of these loads are very accurate for me. Edited October 6, 2011 by twodelta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerglocker Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 4.0g WST and moly BC 135 RN at 1.150 OAL is my pet load, zero smoke, clean burning and accurate out of my STI Spartan 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericf Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Are there any opinions regarding "American Select"? I saw one user post that he liked the combination. And The burn rate seems to be on par with Tightgroup. What say you? Any negatives? Sorry to continue asking these questions, But I dont like having the 20/20 hindsight of regrets. Edited October 7, 2011 by ericf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 What regret ? No one says you cant switch powders if you dont like it. None of our opinions matter, its your opinion and what you like that does. Someone may say its soft and great!, but you think it kicks like a mule and smokes like a train. Buy a few pounds of different powder and load some ammo. Then buy 8lbs + of what you like the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericf Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 good advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I did search for American Select, got some hits on 147gr, but no 125. Comments said it was clean and soft.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 g56 wrote: The vast majority of the smoke you see when using lead bullets is from the bullet lube, not the powder. Since I have the equipment to cast, size, and lube my own boolits, I did experiments with some of my own boolits which didn't get lubed. The lube-less boolits still smoked when fired. I think it was with Clays powder. Was the barrel clean? You could lube every other bullet and probably be ok. Lube is deposited in the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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