Iron sight AR thoughts

[Ryan N]

I have a 16" Hbar mid length Rock River AR that I have been using for a few years for 3 gun and rifle matches. I installed a Yankee Hill rifle forearm and Yankee Hill flip sights a few years ago. This set up has been trouble free ever since I loc-tighted the forearm jam nut and tube to the barrel nut. My front sight is mounted on the rail.

I am really enjoying shooting iron sights and I am considering turning the rifle into a dedicated iron sight gun. I like the HK type ears on the front sight like this one http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=38858/avs%7CManufacturer_1=TROY%20INDUSTRIES,%20INCxzzx/Product/AR_15_M16_FIXED_FRONT_BATTLESIGHT I have also considered mounting a std A2 front sight in front of the tube, but the diameter there is a undersized at .740". I am also considernig a more rigid rear sight.

Do you think that having the front sight mounted on the rail is as durable mounting it on the barrel?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Edited September 4, 2011 by Ryan N

[Lead-Head]

Ryan,

There are some pretty rigid rails out there, but I would think they have to flex, at least a little. If you get into a tight position and put any torque or it your point of impact would have to change. It looks like you have enough room for a clamp on JP or armalite A2 base. the JP will clamp down to 0.720. The armalite will as well, with a little work.

I have a friend that offered to open up a forged A2 front sight base and pin it out at the end of my barrel. That would really be solid, bu I have not taken him up on it yet.

I almost built a 16 inch dedicated irons gun last year. I think it would be cool.

Brian

[Ryan N]

There are some pretty rigid rails out there, but I would think they have to flex, at least a little. If you get into a tight position and put any torque or it your point of impact would have to change. It looks like you have enough room for a clamp on JP or armalite A2 base. the JP will clamp down to 0.720. The armalite will as well, with a little work.

I have a friend that offered to open up a forged A2 front sight base and pin it out at the end of my barrel. That would really be solid, bu I have not taken him up on it yet.

Thanks Brian. That makes since.

BTW, I would take up your friend on his offer.

[RiggerJJ]

I have a 16" Hbar mid length Rock River AR that I have been using for a few years for 3 gun and rifle matches. I installed a Yankee Hill rifle forearm and Yankee Hill flip sights a few years ago. This set up has been trouble free ever since I loc-tighted the forearm jam nut and tube to the barrel nut. My front sight is mounted on the rail.

I am really enjoying shooting iron sights and I am considering turning the rifle into a dedicated iron sight gun. I like the HK type ears on the front sight like this one http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=38858/avs%7CManufacturer_1=TROY%20INDUSTRIES,%20INCxzzx/Product/AR_15_M16_FIXED_FRONT_BATTLESIGHT I have also considered mounting a std A2 front sight in front of the tube, but the diameter there is a undersized at .740". I am also considernig a more rigid rear sight.

Do you think that having the front sight mounted on the rail is as durable mounting it on the barrel?

Thanks for your suggestions.

to answer your question, IMHO no. I think a primary iron sight should be barrel mounted, rigid, and paired with a rigid rear sight. There just has to be some movement that you cannot control between the barrel and the handguard, which will move your POA away from your POI. Plus you will get more sight radius by moving the front to just behind the comp.

jj

[krdshrk]

My front sight is a flip up on my railed gas block. That sucker ain't moving, unlike a handguard.......

[Ryan N]

I have a 16" Hbar mid length Rock River AR that I have been using for a few years for 3 gun and rifle matches. I installed a Yankee Hill rifle forearm and Yankee Hill flip sights a few years ago. This set up has been trouble free ever since I loc-tighted the forearm jam nut and tube to the barrel nut. My front sight is mounted on the rail.

I am really enjoying shooting iron sights and I am considering turning the rifle into a dedicated iron sight gun. I like the HK type ears on the front sight like this one http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=38858/avs%7CManufacturer_1=TROY%20INDUSTRIES,%20INCxzzx/Product/AR_15_M16_FIXED_FRONT_BATTLESIGHT I have also considered mounting a std A2 front sight in front of the tube, but the diameter there is a undersized at .740". I am also considernig a more rigid rear sight.

Do you think that having the front sight mounted on the rail is as durable mounting it on the barrel?

Thanks for your suggestions.

to answer your question, IMHO no. I think a primary iron sight should be barrel mounted, rigid, and paired with a rigid rear sight. There just has to be some movement that you cannot control between the barrel and the handguard, which will move your POA away from your POI. Plus you will get more sight radius by moving the front to just behind the comp.

jj

Thank you sir.

I have found the JP sight that Lead Head mentioned, but I can't find the Armalite one. The clamp on JP would be the easiest, but I have the ablity and means to install the std A2 and pin it to the barrel(I am a machinst). This seems even more durable and would also be cheaper.

[Ryan N]

My front sight is a flip up on my railed gas block. That sucker ain't moving, unlike a handguard.......

What gas block did you use?

[krdshrk]

I think it's a DPMS Quad rail gas block. It was an option on the upper I ordered from JSE Surplus.

[sono]

Go to Armalite's sight and search clamp on. The sight will come up. If you clamp it to the barrel it may need a thin shim cut to fit. I used a beer can and it worked very well. Hope to see you at Steel City rifle matches sometime.

[Ryan N]

Go to Armalite's sight and search clamp on. The sight will come up. If you clamp it to the barrel it may need a thin shim cut to fit. I used a beer can and it worked very well. Hope to see you at Steel City rifle matches sometime.

Thanks Sono, Where might I find a beer can?

I shoot major IDPA matches(and a few monthly) and most of David Tapp's matches at Steel City. I was at David's 2 guns match on April 30. I will also be at the Tac Rifle Championship in Oct. Hope to see you there too.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Ryan N

[Lead-Head]

Go to Armalite's sight and search clamp on. The sight will come up. If you clamp it to the barrel it may need a thin shim cut to fit. I used a beer can and it worked very well. Hope to see you at Steel City rifle matches sometime.

The armalite can be shimmed. BUT, if you remove a little material from in between where the clamping bolts pull the bottom of the sight together, it will clamp tight on a 0.720. I am NOT a machinist, but the armalite is $45 and the JP is $120.

[Ryan N]

Go to Armalite's sight and search clamp on. The sight will come up. If you clamp it to the barrel it may need a thin shim cut to fit. I used a beer can and it worked very well. Hope to see you at Steel City rifle matches sometime.

Found the sight. Thanks a million. I plan on order one of those.

[Ryan N]

Go to Armalite's sight and search clamp on. The sight will come up. If you clamp it to the barrel it may need a thin shim cut to fit. I used a beer can and it worked very well. Hope to see you at Steel City rifle matches sometime.

The armalite can be shimmed. BUT, if you remove a little material from in between where the clamping bolts pull the bottom of the sight together, it will clamp tight on a 0.720. I am NOT a machinist, but the armalite is $45 and the JP is $120.

My barrel is .740 so I won't have a problem. Even with my discount, the JP is still $105 from Brownells. I don't see how the JP would be any better. They look to be the same style and are both forged.

[Charles Bond]

Send Kurt Miller a PM. Whatever he tells you, just do it. He is the Thor of the iron sights.

[Sc0]

The JP has a better finish/machining and is stainless, might include the small parts. The Armalite clamp-on A2 sight base is cheap but it works well, just don't forget to order the detent, detent spring, and the front sight.

[Ryan N]

The JP has a better finish/machining and is stainless, might include the small parts. The Armalite clamp-on A2 sight base is cheap but it works well, just don't forget to order the detent, detent spring, and the front sight.

I actually have those parts from the top part of my original front sight. I cut off the top part above the gas tube so I could put on the rifle length rail.

I will PM Kurt. Thanks

[Outsydlooknin75]

I built my irons gun with just the stock fsb. I pulled it from the normal position and pushed it out front. Instead of buying a clamp on I just took and tapped the taper pin holes and put some set screws in its place. I also tapped the hole in the bottom where the gas hole is drilled and put a set screw there.

I have a total of 5 screws holding it on and they are all dimpled underneath especially the one on the bottom as to help keep it from spinning. All screws are held in place with pink nail polish as it holds stronger than any other color even with the heat of the barrel.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

[Ryan N]

Send Kurt Miller a PM. Whatever he tells you, just do it. He is the Thor of the iron sights.

Is "kurtm" the Kurt Miller that you are speaking of? I have PM'ed him, so I hope so.

[Vespid_Wasp]

I built my irons gun with just the stock fsb. I pulled it from the normal position and pushed it out front. Instead of buying a clamp on I just took and tapped the taper pin holes and put some set screws in its place. I also tapped the hole in the bottom where the gas hole is drilled and put a set screw there.

I have a total of 5 screws holding it on and they are all dimpled underneath especially the one on the bottom as to help keep it from spinning. All screws are held in place with pink nail polish as it holds stronger than any other color even with the heat of the barrel.

Ditto:

Works great. Solid. Much less expensive than some other options.

[cas]

I went the Armalite route a couple months ago. So far so good, pretty happy with it.

[iainmcphersn]

With your mad machining skills, you could go the same route I did. I got a .635 ID front sight base and had Chuck Haynes open it up to match my barrel. I've got a Sabre fluted barrel and it steps from .730 to .705 if I remember correctly.

Chuck used a mill to open up the ID of the FSB and put in set screws on the bottom. He also slightly dimpled the barrel to match. It's solid and I'm pleased with it but he said it was a bear to work with since there are no flat surfaces on an FSB.

If I had it to do over, I'd probably go with the JP or Armalite clamp on version as suggested.

Last I looked, Kurt Miller and Bruce Piatt were these rear sights from DPMS. I believe I remember Kurt mentioning that he had an extra picatinny slot cut in his upper receiver to move the sight to the rear as far as possible.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=786

Edited September 7, 2011 by iainmcphersn

[Dwain C. Baer]

Nice rifles cas...

[want2race]

You can get this barrel clamp from Brownells in .740 diameter. Everyone that has tried this set up really likes it. For close up (0-50y big brown) you use the tube and the peep. Circle in circle, see brown and dump two at it. For precision I have a .030 post centered in the front tube. The front tube is 30mm, larger than what's available at Brownells/Midway. Found it at a Benchrest shooting supply online store.

DPMS non-NM rear sight. I wanted the gross elevation numbers (3/6, 4, 5 etc) for distance. Set it up for 50/200ish and 25/300ish zero's. 9 clicks down from 3/6 is the 50/200. Turned the rear sight up 9 clicks up from bottomed out, then adjust the dial to show 3/6.

It's fast when it needs to be, and accurate when it needs to be.

[Ryan N]

The DPMS is one of the RSB's that I was looking at.

I ended up ordering the Armalite clamp on because its $55 cheaper(after shipping).

With your mad machining skills, you could go the same route I did. I got a .635 ID front sight base and had Chuck Haynes open it up to match my barrel. I've got a Sabre fluted barrel and it steps from .730 to .705 if I remember correctly.

Chuck used a mill to open up the ID of the FSB and put in set screws on the bottom. He also slightly dimpled the barrel to match. It's solid and I'm pleased with it but he said it was a bear to work with since there are no flat surfaces on an FSB.

If I had it to do over, I'd probably go with the JP or Armalite clamp on version as suggested.

Last I looked, Kurt Miller and Bruce Piatt were these rear sights from DPMS. I believe I remember Kurt mentioning that he had an extra picatinny slot cut in his upper receiver to move the sight to the rear as far as possible.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=786

Thanks for the complement John. If I still had my original FSB entact, I would have modified it to work like Chuck did on yours. But I cut off the top part of the original FSB above the gas tube to install the rifle length hand gaurd. I still have the top part of the sight with the original parts to put in the Armalite FSB when it arrives.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Ryan N

[iainmcphersn]

The DPMS is one of the RSB's that I was looking at.

I ended up ordering the Armalite clamp on because its $55 cheaper(after shipping).

With your mad machining skills, you could go the same route I did. I got a .635 ID front sight base and had Chuck Haynes open it up to match my barrel. I've got a Sabre fluted barrel and it steps from .730 to .705 if I remember correctly.

Chuck used a mill to open up the ID of the FSB and put in set screws on the bottom. He also slightly dimpled the barrel to match. It's solid and I'm pleased with it but he said it was a bear to work with since there are no flat surfaces on an FSB.

If I had it to do over, I'd probably go with the JP or Armalite clamp on version as suggested.

Last I looked, Kurt Miller and Bruce Piatt were these rear sights from DPMS. I believe I remember Kurt mentioning that he had an extra picatinny slot cut in his upper receiver to move the sight to the rear as far as possible.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=786

Thanks for the complement John. If I still had my original FSB entact, I would have modified it to work like Chuck did on yours. But I cut off the top part of the original FSB above the gas tube to install the rifle length hand gaurd. I still have the top part of the sight with the original parts to put in the Armalite FSB when it arrives.

You might consider a NM .050 front sight post as well.