kimmie Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I did a search and could only find this topic mentioned in passing in a post about something different. At local matches, people swap off on r.o'ing to give each other a break. I think it would be nice to be able to bag your gun before you start running around the range but it's not always possible - 'hey Donna - can you r.o. this next shooter - safe table is waayyy over there - at least dump my mags - and then take over. At larger matches, you usually don't have a gun on, because r.o'ing is all you're doing. At some point, while trying to keep up with a particularly speedy competitor at an outdoor match, I became concerned about my gun flopping around on my side and realized that you normally have your gun in your hand while running, as the shooter. Most of my r.o'ing is done at an indoor range where you're not chasing after someone doing a 30+ yard dash. I shoot Limited and recently changed back to a Blade-tech DOH after using a CR speed for many years. I was never concerned about my gun falling out of the CR, although, I suppose in the beginning I was. I changed back to the Blade Tech for other reasons. I've tightened the tension on it so that when I hold it upside down, my gun doesn't fall out but for some reason, I still feel a little insecure with it and find myself holding my gun in place when I bend over or sit down. I'm sure that I'll feel more secure with it after a couple more times using it, as I used it years ago when I shot limited 10 and was fine with it. Just a readjustment to something sort of new. I've been an r.o. for several years now but don't r.o. all that often because for one, I'm not that athletic and can't keep up with some of those supersonic youngsters. I don't really run - I kinda 'bounce' along , and while 'bouncing along' after this speedy shooter, I started worrying about my gun 'bouncing' out of my holster. My solution to this is that since I can't be distracted while running a shooter, in the future, I will find a way to bag my gun if I'm going to r.o. But, my question is, how is it handled if an r.o's gun falls out during the course of fire? I've never seen it happen, although I'm sure it has. I yell 'stop'. Who picks up my gun? Me? I'm the r.o. It's empty and I'm not the shooter so I'm not d.q'd, yes? Shooter gets a reshoot due to r.o. interference? (screw up). Thanks Edited August 17, 2011 by kimmie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 how about the aro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I did a search and could only find this topic mentioned in passing in a post about something different. At local matches, people swap off on r.o'ing to give each other a break. I think it would be nice to be able to bag your gun before you start running around the range but it's not always possible - 'hey Donna - can you r.o. this next shooter - safe table is waayyy over there - at least dump my mags - and then take over. At larger matches, you usually don't have a gun on, because r.o'ing is all you're doing. At some point, while trying to keep up with a particularly speedy competitor at an outdoor match, I became concerned about my gun flopping around on my side and realized that you normally have your gun in your hand while running, as the shooter. Most of my r.o'ing is done at an indoor range where you're not chasing after someone doing a 30+ yard dash. I shoot Limited and recently changed back to a Blade-tech DOH after using a CR speed for many years. I was never concerned about my gun falling out of the CR, although, I suppose in the beginning I was. I changed back to the Blade Tech for other reasons. I've tightened the tension on it so that when I hold it upside down, my gun doesn't fall out but for some reason, I still feel a little insecure with it and find myself holding my gun in place when I bend over or sit down. I'm sure that I'll feel more secure with it after a couple more times using it, as I used it years ago when I shot limited 10 and was fine with it. Just a readjustment to something sort of new. I've been an r.o. for several years now but don't r.o. all that often because for one, I'm not that athletic and can't keep up with some of those supersonic youngsters. I don't really run - I kinda 'bounce' along , and while 'bouncing along' after this speedy shooter, I started worrying about my gun 'bouncing' out of my holster. My solution to this is that since I can't be distracted while running a shooter, in the future, I will find a way to bag my gun if I'm going to r.o. But, my question is, how is it handled if an r.o's gun falls out during the course of fire? I've never seen it happen, although I'm sure it has. I yell 'stop'. Who picks up my gun? Me? I'm the r.o. It's empty and I'm not the shooter so I'm not d.q'd, yes? Shooter gets a reshoot due to r.o. interference? (screw up). Thanks Who would run you when you shoot? They can bag you. Keeping up with faster shooters is an issue. Watched too many videos where the RO never tries to keep up or keep their eyes on the gun. I just hold my gun in the holster while I run after the shooter, timer in the other hand. Edited August 17, 2011 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I wouldn't pick it up. Let another RO pick it up. I'm not sure what the ruling would be if you did pick it up, because the rule isn't all that clear. I think it's a better practice to allow someone else to pick it up, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Whoever's running the clipboard (ARO) should be able to clear the gun and return it to you. FWIW, I always go to the safe area and bag if I'm going to need to run to RO a shooter. I really don't want to split my attention between the shooter and keeping my gun from going flying. Besides, all the ranges around here are gravel or sand, and I really don't want to fling my gun down on that! BB Edited August 17, 2011 by bbbean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Take your pistol rug/bag up to the line, if all else fails, ask the shooter to act as your RO while you bag. All it takes is maybe one minute. This should neer become an issue. Now if your gun were to fall out during the COF while you were actively running the shooter, I would assume that you'd be required to stop the shooter, have him ULSC and Holster, he gets a reshoot, you get SOMEONE to act as RO so you can retrieve your hopefully unloaded gun and the day goes on. Not sure what the call would be if you caught your gun. There is no exception in the rules so technically I suppose you'd be DQ'd. That all said, I rarely remove my gun while running shooters unless there are a lot and I am shooting early in the rotation. I've never had the problem with either my CR or my Blade-Techs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Now if your gun were to fall out during the COF while you were actively running the shooter, I would assume that you'd be required to stop the shooter, have him ULSC and Holster, he gets a reshoot, you get SOMEONE to act as RO so you can retrieve your hopefully unloaded gun and the day goes on. Not sure what the call would be if you caught your gun. There is no exception in the rules so technically I suppose you'd be DQ'd. I guessing Jim meant to say "they" rather than "you". On all other accounts, Jim gives great advice on how to handle the situation. Edited August 17, 2011 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmie Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks for all the great responses. I don't always think 'outside' of the box Since I know my physical limitations and running(bouncing) holding onto my gun would slow me even more, and I want to keep all my attention on the shooter, I'll always have my bag near by and bag my gun in the future. Yes, ARO should pick up my gun. If I'm r.o'ing, my gun would be empty. Just was curious as to how this plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 We had this happen at our last match. I think I was the shooter. The RO on the timer didn't even know the gun came out. As we finished, the RO on the clipboard was was with the gun, standing near it. Clipboard RO spoke up and we informed the squad that the range was hot and had them clear out. Then we handled it like any other dropped gun. Another RO retrieved it, cleared it and got it back to it's happy home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 We had this happen at our last match. I think I was the shooter. The RO on the timer didn't even know the gun came out. As we finished, the RO on the clipboard was was with the gun, standing near it. Clipboard RO spoke up and we informed the squad that the range was hot and had them clear out. Then we handled it like any other dropped gun. Another RO retrieved it, cleared it and got it back to it's happy home. That's a great way to handle a situation like that... can't say that I have ever experienced it happening before, knock on wood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 One of the other alternatives is if the COF such that the shooter is only moving forward (and the targets aren't being scored behind you), or left to right, or right to left is to let the shooter finish, and then get them unloaded and holstered, but don't declare "Range Is Clear" yet. Then go back and have the assistant RO retrieve, clear the gun, and have the gun holstered or bagged before declaring RIC. Take note of the time while the shooter is unloading but don't announce the time yet. Chances are that there'll be enough of a commotion from the peanut gallery or the assistant RO may blurt out something about your dropped gun that it may distract the shooter. By not announcing the time, you leave the option open for offering the reshoot for interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Not sure what the call would be if you caught your gun. There is no exception in the rules so technically I suppose you'd be DQ'd. It's not discretionary and there's nothing 'technical' about it. Unsafe gun handling is specifically dealt with in the rule book, and the only ruling is a disqualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) http://www.uspsa.org...ils.php?indx=42 Answer from NROI ruling: Assigned RO's should not have a handgun on while running competitors, this usually occurs in the scenario you state and mostly at local matches. Should someone acting as the RO, drop their unloaded handgun while doing so, should NOT retrieve their own handgun, they should seek someone else in the squad to do so. Once a gun is dropped, the individual who dropped it, becomes no different than a competitor and falls under 10.5.14 and 7.23. Edited August 17, 2011 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It's important to remember that despite being an RO, you are still a competitor and those rules still apply. I have the same tendency to bounce especially indoors - some reason it seems I'm less likely to slip on the concrete. I've developed a natural tendency to place my hand on my gun in the holster when I'm running - even when I'm doing a walkthrough, so it doesn't bother me when I'm RO'ing unless I'm chasing a lefty and the timer is in my right hand. I do it everytime I start to move fast and it doesn't distract me from duties of an RO. I know where it is, and my free hand goes there automatically. +1 though to how it's handled in everyone elses posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupie Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 It's important to remember that despite being an RO, you are still a competitor and those rules still apply. I have the same tendency to bounce especially indoors - some reason it seems I'm less likely to slip on the concrete. I've developed a natural tendency to place my hand on my gun in the holster when I'm running - even when I'm doing a walkthrough, so it doesn't bother me when I'm RO'ing unless I'm chasing a lefty and the timer is in my right hand. I do it everytime I start to move fast and it doesn't distract me from duties of an RO. I know where it is, and my free hand goes there automatically. +1 though to how it's handled in everyone elses posts. Why do you put the timer in your right hand when running a leftie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Why do you put the timer in your right hand when running a leftie? To do the Statue of Liberty walk, trot, run, and still keep good view of the gun. That wasn't to make fun of people, but I'm guilty of it as well, if you see all the pictures and videos of me. I do keep the timer in my weak hand any which way, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMH Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) When I used to use one of the early Safariland holsters I had a habit of using a short bungee cord as a walk through strap because I ran a lot of shooters at local clubs back in the good old days. Seemed like good prevention at the time. Now that my holsters have lever locks I let the straps go, but I'm sure you could come up with something similar for your piece of mind. Good question though, Daniel Edited August 18, 2011 by DMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Side note: Get some of these for your bladetech: http://www.3gunstuff.com/knobs.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 It's important to remember that despite being an RO, you are still a competitor and those rules still apply. I have the same tendency to bounce especially indoors - some reason it seems I'm less likely to slip on the concrete. I've developed a natural tendency to place my hand on my gun in the holster when I'm running - even when I'm doing a walkthrough, so it doesn't bother me when I'm RO'ing unless I'm chasing a lefty and the timer is in my right hand. I do it everytime I start to move fast and it doesn't distract me from duties of an RO. I know where it is, and my free hand goes there automatically. +1 though to how it's handled in everyone elses posts. Why do you put the timer in your right hand when running a leftie? For the same reason I put it my left to run righty shooters. It keeps the timer behind the shooter in a way I can keep in my peripheral when I need to without crossing over myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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