getting my load a bit more accurate

[bodene 5]

ive gotten a pretty decent load cycles well , 147 mg with win 231 @ 3.6 with a oal of 1.115 in a glock 19 is there anything i can do to tighten my groups up? shooting at 25 yds slow fire getting about 6 inch groups some are in the bullseye and others are 11 oclock and some are at 8 oclock to the right of the bullseye. maybe my grip ? trigger pull? has a 3.5 trigger installed in both . any expert advise ? only have been reloading about 2 months. also have a 17 with glock factory night sights that my groups are even worse than the 19. i would like at some point and time to shoot a match or two but my grouping is to poor i feel for idpa or steel plates . thanks again sorry hope this in the right thread

Edited June 29, 2011 by bodene 5

[dillon]

My personal experience is that Glock 19s don't perform as well with 147 grain bullets as they do with lighter ones. You might experiment with different OALs, moving to a longer OAL in .020" increments.

[Bob DuBois]

Seems the longer I can load, OAL the more accurate the ammunition.

[rfwobbly]

Mr Bodene -

I'm with Mr Dillon on this. Most modern 9x19 guns seem to have rifling optimized for 124gr bullets. Unless you simply prefer the heavier bullets, then this would be the first step. As an added benefit, the Win231 is probably going to work better with the 124gr too.

As a second step, you could prepare some incremental loads, say 0.2gr apart, 10 each, all the way across the load range. If you'll slow fire those from a supported position (each group at separate targets) at 15 yds, then you'll definitely be able to pick out the optimal load. The optimal load would be the lowest load that makes PF and has the tightest group.

Hope this helps!

[Hi-Power Jack]

147 mg with win 231 @ 3.6 with a oal of 1.115 in a glock 19 is there anything i can do to tighten my groups up? shooting at 25 yds slow fire getting about 6 inch groups

What size groups were you shooting with factory ammo?

Jack

[bodene 5]

thanks guys factory rounds were grouping even worse than my reloads. let me ask a another question if i move my oal out further when do you increase youre powder charge? and thanks to dillon for sending me out a new machine

Edited June 30, 2011 by bodene 5

[CZinSC]

Mr Bodene -

I'm with Mr Dillon on this. Most modern 9x19 guns seem to have rifling optimized for 124gr bullets. Unless you simply prefer the heavier bullets, then this would be the first step. As an added benefit, the Win231 is probably going to work better with the 124gr too.

As a second step, you could prepare some incremental loads, say 0.2gr apart, 10 each, all the way across the load range. If you'll slow fire those from a supported position (each group at separate targets) at 15 yds, then you'll definitely be able to pick out the optimal load. The optimal load would be the lowest load that makes PF and has the tightest group.

Hope this helps!

Almost exactly what I did. IMHO, 25 yards is too far to try and pinpoint an accurate load. Some may say no way, so like I said, IMHO. Use a rest, support the whole gun, and then do what wobbly said, bring with you a number of different loads, but for me I changed the OAL's. I knew 4.2gn N320 for MG 124FMJ was the right load PF wise from previous testing. So I then loaded various OALs, 20 shot strings, starting at 1.135 and went up .005 at a time to 1.165". I found in my SP01, that 1.145" produced the best groups. The PF did not change enough to warrant an increase in powder charge. YMMV.

[Poppa Bear]

I increase my charge when it no longer makes PF. The first thing I would try is to make some dummy cartridges that are NOT crimped and see how long you can load them before they no longer fit in your magazines. I would then shorten them just a bit and crimp just enough to remove the bell and then see if it fits in your barrel. Usually it is the magazine that is the deciding factor for OAL but occasionally you run into a barrel that has a short chamber.

Now you know your max OAL and can experiment with different charges and OAL's until you find the loads sweet spot. You might also find that your sweet spot is related to your PF. My most accurate loads run around 175 PF. If I lighten the charge to around 165 they start to spread out. If I increase it to above 175 they stay pretty close but the recoil gets stiffer. What determines PF? It is speed times bullet weight, so when I get to around 940 fps the bullets seem to mesh well with the guns barrel length, rate of twist, guide rod, recoil spring, and Heavy magwell. I have tried a couple of different bullets and the key factor seems to be getting at least 925 fps or better for 185 gr or 1050 on 165's.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Poppa Bear

[superdude]

Almost exactly what I did. IMHO, 25 yards is too far to try and pinpoint an accurate load. Some may say no way, so like I said, IMHO. Use a rest, support the whole gun, and then do what wobbly said, bring with you a number of different loads, but for me I changed the OAL's. I knew 4.2gn N320 for MG 124FMJ was the right load PF wise from previous testing. So I then loaded various OALs, 20 shot strings, starting at 1.135 and went up .005 at a time to 1.165". I found in my SP01, that 1.145" produced the best groups. The PF did not change enough to warrant an increase in powder charge. YMMV.

shooting from a rest is critical. it helps to reduce shooter error (trigger control, sight alignment), and is a better method for testing the gun/ammo. there are only a few people on the planet steady enough to test ammo accuracy when shooting offhand at a distance.

shoot it off a supported rest first, before you decide that it's the ammo/gun and not the shooter.

[Hi-Power Jack]

thanks guys factory rounds were grouping even worse than my reloads. let me ask a another question if i move my oal out further when do you increase youre powder charge?

If your reloads are more accurate than factory ammo, you're going in the

right direction:)

As everyone has said - shoot from a solid rest in good lighting,

try different bullet weights (my BHP shoots 147 gr best, but some

other guns prefer lighter bullets; different charges, different

OAL's, and even different powders.

I use 3.7 grains WW231 at 1.135" for pf 132 - as accurate as I've

been able to get from my gun lately. You might try bumping up

your load a bit - chrono it first - don't get too hot. That can

affect accuracy also.

Your crimp might be a little too tight - that can also affect

accuracy - try backing off one quarter turn on your crimp - see

if that is more or less accurate (and feeds, of course). Also,

try a quarter turn more crimp - see if that helps.

Try shooting larger groups - 12-15 shots/group - eliminate the

2-3 "flyers" and see how large the main part of the group is -

3.5" at 25 yards is pretty good - enough to get you started at

those distant plates.

Good luck

Jack

[rfwobbly]

let me ask a another question if i move my oal out further when do you increase your powder charge?

Papa Bear told you right.... "When you fail to make PF" ....And the only way to know that is to load 10 or so rounds at the new OAL at each incremental level and shoot them in your gun across a chrono and/or read the pressure signs on the case.

There are simply too many variables involved (barrel dia, bullet dia, bullet hardness, powder batch, primer, type of cartridge case, OAL, etc, etc) for anyone here to give you an exact answer. Someone may be shooting something similar, so they can make a "SWAG", but your results will always vary. Friends here and a reloading manual can get you safely into the general area, but the last 100 yds is a trip you have to make by yourself.

It's sort of like baking cookies. You start with the general recipe, but then you make it your own by adding nuts, cinnamon, raisins, brown sugar, dried cranberries, ...whatever it is that finally tunes the cookie to your taste. The recipe can't tell you what your taste buds love, and so it is with reloading.

Hope this helps!

[bodene 5]

thank you everybody will keep those things in mind and repost as soon as i can i have a few days off and will try some things . again thanks to all who replied happy 4th. this is the best forum

[bodene 5]

still working on them but i am slow going slow but sure

[shooter57]

You need to start at 21 feet and make sure their accurate,move back to 50 feet and they should be in the same grouping and then move back further until you get the distance you will be shooting from. There is a difference shooting at paper target and shooting at steel targets. The bad groups may be more you than the loads.

Edited July 17, 2011 by shooter57

[Red Ryder]

thanks guys factory rounds were grouping even worse than my reloads. let me ask a another question if i move my oal out further when do you increase youre powder charge? and thanks to dillon for sending me out a new machine

Why the new machine?

[bodene 5]

thanks guys factory rounds were grouping even worse than my reloads. let me ask a another question if i move my oal out further when do you increase youre powder charge? and thanks to dillon for sending me out a new machine

Why the new machine? had a small issue with the sdb with case meeting up correctly at stage 2 ,, they were nice enough to send me a replacement and ensure it was working properly and that i was satisfied. all is well now . just ordered a set of dawson fiber front and rear adjustable .should be here this week then back to the range. will keep you all posted. thanks

Edited July 18, 2011 by bodene 5

[bodene 5]

let me ask a another question if i move my oal out further when do you increase your powder charge?

Papa Bear told you right.... "When you fail to make PF" ....And the only way to know that is to load 10 or so rounds at the new OAL at each incremental level and shoot them in your gun across a chrono and/or read the pressure signs on the case.

There are simply too many variables involved (barrel dia, bullet dia, bullet hardness, powder batch, primer, type of cartridge case, OAL, etc, etc) for anyone here to give you an exact answer. Someone may be shooting something similar, so they can make a "SWAG", but your results will always vary. Friends here and a reloading manual can get you safely into the general area, but the last 100 yds is a trip you have to make by yourself.

It's sort of like baking cookies. You start with the general recipe, but then you make it your own by adding nuts, cinnamon, raisins, brown sugar, dried cranberries, ...whatever it is that finally tunes the cookie to your taste. The recipe can't tell you what your taste buds love, and so it is with reloading.

Hope this helps! ;)thank you

[bodene 5]

let me ask a another question if i move my oal out further when do you increase your powder charge?

Papa Bear told you right.... "When you fail to make PF" ....And the only way to know that is to load 10 or so rounds at the new OAL at each incremental level and shoot them in your gun across a chrono and/or read the pressure signs on the case.

There are simply too many variables involved (barrel dia, bullet dia, bullet hardness, powder batch, primer, type of cartridge case, OAL, etc, etc) for anyone here to give you an exact answer. Someone may be shooting something similar, so they can make a "SWAG", but your results will always vary. Friends here and a reloading manual can get you safely into the general area, but the last 100 yds is a trip you have to make by yourself.

It's sort of like baking cookies. You start with the general recipe, but then you make it your own by adding nuts, cinnamon, raisins, brown sugar, dried cranberries, ...whatever it is that finally tunes the cookie to your taste. The recipe can't tell you what your taste buds love, and so it is with reloading.

Hope this helps! ;)thank you