223 mixed brass reloading

[timawa]

Is reloading 223 using mix brass a safe practice or do I have to sort out each one of them and reload per type/brand of brass?

Also on 45 ACP, is mix brass ok?

Thank you.

Edited June 12, 2011 by timawa

[DougCarden]

In my experience, mixing brass is just fine unless you are pushing the envelope on pressure in rifles, and you want the best terminal accuracy for distance.

Don't worry about the pistol brass unless you are loading 50 yard accuracy stuff.

In Rifle brass, for example......FC or Federal brass is shorter than other commercial brass, so if you are loading a super hot magnum load in .223 (which you don't need to, ever...) then you will show and have pressure problems with those cases versus the other commercial cases and any military type cases (LC). If you load a moderate load it will still run the gas guns and treat the brass ok too.

For example when trimming once fired brass FC will go 1.740-744ish and other brass such as WIN or LC will run at 1.750 OAL.

In short, don't run a max load and you will be fine in .223, but go slow and work up your load.....lot's to learn about loading .223. Read the forums here for a wealth of knowledge!

Good luck,

DougC

[AnthonyL]

For plinking? Mixed brass all day long, it's all I shoot. Precision shooting for accuracy, different story.

[whistlepig]

+1 on above...... mix pistol is fine all day long. You might find that your pistol doesn't like a brand, but that is rare.

I mix .223 brass for plinking, but i get serious about rifle brass prep for accuracy work.

[g56]

This is a 5 shot group at 100 yards using mixed military brass, Hornady 55 gr spire point bullet, loaded on a Dillon RL550 using Dillon dies:

[mpeltier]

I use. 223 mixed brass for more than just plinking. I have also sorted and compared them many times. I personally can not tell a differance. My Krieger bbled AR would shoot mixed brass under 1/2 inch at100yds. A real seriuos camp perry style competitor would probably find a differance though.

[ajroyer]

Sounds dangerous to me. Military brass has thicker case walls than commercial, and the different volumes in the cases will cause different pressures. The biggest concern I have personally is being able to monitor signs of case failure. For example, if primers are starting to back out of FC brass, does that mean that the LC brass is also at the end of it's life? Are you keeping track of how many times the cases are being fired and checking each for case head separation, overpressure, and neck splitting? I am sure that these guys that plink are checking each case for signs of failure, but be careful. It's a question of safety, not accuracy.

[CocoBolo]

I use. 223 mixed brass for more than just plinking. I have also sorted and compared them many times. I personally can not tell a differance. My Krieger bbled AR would shoot mixed brass under 1/2 inch at100yds. A real seriuos camp perry style competitor would probably find a differance though.

Hey I bought an AR Top end from mpeltier, he knows his stuff. With the top end I bought I hit 485 yard steel targets in a gusting cross wind, with ammo loaded in range brass, SMK 69gr over TAC. My range brass reloads group better than PMC or other off the shelf ammo. At 100 yards I can cover a 5 shot group with a quarter, and that is range brass and 55gr FMJBT or 69gr SMK's. So unless you are trying to shoot thru the hole in a thrown washer, range brass should work.

You do need to trim every case and be diligent in your reloading. I trim them becuase it is faster than checking them, some may not need it but just faster to follow the same process for all including reaming the primer pockets. Finding the right load well that takes some effort, loading a few test rounds at different powder levels then shooting groups. It's amazing what +.2gr or -.2gr will do.

In 45 acp if a magnet won't stick to it I load it. 45 ACP is a low pressure round and the brass stays good for lots of loadings. No need to trim it will split before it gets too long. The biggest issue I hit was with the rim being beat up by somones poor ejector/extractor, a quick stroke with a file cleans that up.

[AnthonyL]

Sounds dangerous to me. Military brass has thicker case walls than commercial, and the different volumes in the cases will cause different pressures.

Good reason why you should use minimum load data. For plinking 100 yards or less there is no need for anything other than min load. Also that means worries about pressure are much less as well as variances in cases due to mixed brass.

[ajroyer]

Sounds dangerous to me. Military brass has thicker case walls than commercial, and the different volumes in the cases will cause different pressures.

Good reason why you should use minimum load data. For plinking 100 yards or less there is no need for anything other than min load. Also that means worries about pressure are much less as well as variances in cases due to mixed brass.

Thank you for another vote for safety. I think that everyone agrees that the brass doesn't have as much to do with accuracy, as far as brand is concerned. Other than even neck tension, it is just a container. The original post was if it is safe and ok to use mixed brass. So far, the replies have concentrated on, "yeah, I can be accurate with it." While this is true, the OP needs to give us info on what he is doing with his mixed brass. (i.e. working up target loads, hunting loads, plinking....) Even in the event that all the mixed brass has been only fired from his gun and all the cases have been fired the same number of times, it should be pointed out that each brand of brass has variations from lot to lot. That means that even if I only buy Lake City brass, the lots from different years may have different characteristics. If I have a bunch of LC08 and LC09, one may start to fail before the other for various reasons. If the LC09 brass had 10% of the cases showing signs of failure, and none of the LC08 did, would you want to throw out all the LC08 with the LC09? This is why so many people that reload sort by brand, headstamp (i.e. lot number), number of firings, and whether it is fired from their gun or not.

By the way, OP, remember that if the mixed brass that you are using is from another person's gun (like range brass) that the brass has been expanded to fit their chamber. It will be worked a little extra to size it for your chamber. You also don't know if they turned the necks for a bolt gun or fired five times and left it cause they aren't reloading past that point, etc.

[Bob DuBois]

Pistol, not split shoot it, I will spend a little time on 9mm, I'll trash 9mm military cases because of case volume and swaged primers. Try and stay away from brass that I know has been fired through an open gun, might not hold primers when reloaded. In 45acp watch out for small primers.

223, if it's once fired I'll pick it up. If it's reloaded and I don't know how many times I'll usually leave it. I did a test once and marked and reloaded 20 rounds of 223. After five firings three of the twenty lost the primer. I don't shoot a lot of rifle and would rather have a rough idea of how many times it's been reloaded. Might save a jam when you don't want it.

[calishootr]

for me, an maybe it was because i was extremely bored one day, i sorted out all of my .223 brass as to military in one bucket and commercial in another, asto how many times fired any of it is??? good question??? dont know, then again i dont run any of it hot and my long range stuff is from Black hills

[mpeltier]

COCOBOLO

Thanks for the kind words. Glad to hear tha upper is shootin straight.

As to military brass bieng thicker and causing overpressure, I have never found this to be an issue. Anytime you work up a load in any case, for safety reasons always work up, and look for sighns of over pressure. All my mixed brass reloads have been within a few fps over the chrono. Never find a differance between mil and commercial. If you are loading on the raged edge of safety you will have a problem with used brass failing from fatigue before anything else.

Edited June 17, 2011 by mpeltier

[Shadowrider]

Not sure I buy the mil brass being thicker either. I'm swaging a bunch right now on my Dillon Super Swage. Got a bunch of PPU and some Lake City and a bunch of commercial. I'm just sorting as I go.

The PPU and LC seem to be practically identical. But I have some federal cases that are crimped. And man are they ever crimped. What's up with that? But anyway I have to set them aside to do last because the head is thick enough that they won't go into the swager at all without backing the rod off about 1/3 of a turn. So the Federal commercial that I have is considerably thicker than some of the .mil brass.

[frankge]

just dont load to max

[gose]

For practice and plinking, sure.

For matches, no.

[g56]

Sounds dangerous to me. Military brass has thicker case walls than commercial, and the different volumes in the cases will cause different pressures.

That is an old wives tale when you are talking about 223/5.56 ONLY. I researched this personally, I picked out 50 pieces of assorted brands of 223/5.56 brass, military and commercial, a check of weight found only one type was different, PMP headstamp is South African, PMP brass was significantly heavier than any of the other cases. Another guy went even further, he checked the water capacity of a large variety of 223/5.56 cases, weighing the water the case can hold tells you the true capacity (interior volume) of the case, and again, on 223/5.56 cases ONLY, PMP South African were the only cases that had less capacity, all the rest, military and commercial were essentially the same.

Although I haven't personally researched 308 Win/7.62 NATO, I understand that there is a substantial difference between military and commercial cases in that caliber.

[Religious Shooter]

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

.223 Rem Case Weight vs. Capacity

Case Manufacturer Case Weight* H20 Capacity**

Lake City 06 92.0 30.6

WCC99 95.5 30.5

Sellier & Belloit 92.3 30.5

Remington 92.3 30.4

PMC 93.5 30.4

Hirtenberger 93.7 30.4

Lake City 04 93.0 30.4

Federal 96.3 30.2

Hornady 93.9 30.1

IMG (Guatemalan) 95.4 30.1

Lapua (new lot) 93.4 30.1

Winchester 93.9 30.1

Olympic 97.4 30.0

Radway Arsenal 96.1 30.0

PMP 104.5 29.9

FNM 93-1 97.3 29.8

Lapua (old lot) 104.0 28.0

* Average case weight of sized, deprimed, once fired brass (except new Lapua lot). Weight is average of sample lot.

** Case capacity of three sample cases that weighed closest to the average weight of that brand. All cases were full-length sized and trimmed to 1.750". A spent primer was inserted in the primer pocket, the case weighed. Then the cases filled with distilled water to the top of the case mouth and weighed again.