Wolf / Tula Primers & Extended Firing Pin

[LexTalionis]

I shoot a CZ custom SP01-Tactical with the normal modifications (13lb mainspring, competition hammer). In my match ammo, I use Federal primers and get 100% ignition... so no problems there.

But here's my situation. Grafs.com is selling Tula small pistol primers for a great price right now. I'd love to buy 30,000 of them and use them for practice ammo only, saving my Federals for match ammo. I recently bought 1 box of the Tulas to try in my gun, and I get 50% ignition at best. That, of course, is unacceptable. My question is - if I get an extended firing pin and switch to a lightened firing pin spring, will that allow me to run Tula primers at 99% consistency? Have any of you done this? Will it have negative effects on my Federal primers (pierced primers, etc.)?

CZCustom does not have the extended firing pins in stock yet, so I can't order one to try out on my sample box of primers. If I play it safe and wait for them to get it in stock, the Tula primer sale might have ended already. But if I buy 30k primers and then later find that my firing system modifications don't work, then I'm screwed! I suppose if all the above fails, I could also switch to a heavier mainspring, but I'd rather not mess up my trigger pull.

What do you think I should do?

Edited May 26, 2011 by LexTalionis

[kellymc]

50 percent is really low. 50% to 100% might be asking to much from a extended firing pin.I wouldn't buy

[Strick]

I have extended FP's in my 75B's with 13lb MS and don't get reliable ignition with Wolf primers. I get better than 50%, maybe 80% or more.

I have not tried them in my 75 Shadow but I don't see that making a difference.

[LexTalionis]

Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I was looking for. It looks like I'll be staying away from the Russian brands.

[Torogi]

I dont trust Wolf primers anymore. I used about 500 ct and sold the rest (4,500ct).

[19852]

I used some Wolf primers with my single action only, Angus converted CZ 75. I had to switch to a full power mainspring to get reliable ignition. Not a huge problem on a single action. If you want to keep your nice DA pull stay away from the Wolf would be my advice.

[GeneBray]

Used Wolf SR primers for a while since its was all I could find. Had to seat them very deep to get reliable ignition in my SP01--7lb DA/2lb SA. By very deep I mean .007" Still had problems occasionally. Switched to an long firing pin (from Angus) improved things more. Still had occasional problems where the primer simply would not fire (5-7 strikes). I don't have anymore so I'm happy with CCI and Winchester for now. No ignition problems with these primers.

I used some Wolf primers with my single action only, Angus converted CZ 75. I had to switch to a full power mainspring to get reliable ignition. Not a huge problem on a single action. If you want to keep your nice DA pull stay away from the Wolf would be my advice.

[twodownzero]

I had 16,000 Wolf primers of all kinds in 2009. They worked great and I loved them. Everyone talked trash but they went bang every time.

I ordered some more last year and they were hell. Finally, I got tired of them and gave up. I got refunds for them and I will never buy them again.

It's just not worth it, even for practice. I still have a bunch left that I don't know what to do with. I won't even load them into practice ammo.

[CeeZer]

I shoot a CZ custom SP01-Tactical with the normal modifications (13lb mainspring, competition hammer). In my match ammo, I use Federal primers and get 100% ignition... so no problems there.

But here's my situation. Grafs.com is selling Tula small pistol primers for a great price right now. I'd love to buy 30,000 of them and use them for practice ammo only, saving my Federals for match ammo. I recently bought 1 box of the Tulas to try in my gun, and I get 50% ignition at best. That, of course, is unacceptable. My question is - if I get an extended firing pin and switch to a lightened firing pin spring, will that allow me to run Tula primers at 99% consistency? Have any of you done this? Will it have negative effects on my Federal primers (pierced primers, etc.)?

CZCustom does not have the extended firing pins in stock yet, so I can't order one to try out on my sample box of primers. If I play it safe and wait for them to get it in stock, the Tula primer sale might have ended already. But if I buy 30k primers and then later find that my firing system modifications don't work, then I'm screwed! I suppose if all the above fails, I could also switch to a heavier mainspring, but I'd rather not mess up my trigger pull.

What do you think I should do?

C'mon, you got no sales tax in OR, and primers, be it Fed or Win are what, $30/1000?

I pay 12% sales tax here on top of $35/1000, swear at Liberasts who imposed the tax on us but have no choice thou

Try finding a place that would give you volume discount. When I buy bullets here locally at one place, I get 8% off on orders 10K+.

Pick up your own and others' good free brass and find good cheap powder with low charge per round and it'll give you good savings if you don't cast your own lead bullets. Run plated bullets like Berry's to keep cost low - call Jay at Berry's - he's a great guy, and his 124gr RNDS or 124gr HBRN bullets shoot great in CZs..

Also, send an email to Rob or/and Zoe at czcustom to confirm they are still out of extended "B" firing pins. I got a bunch of non-B ext pins on May 8th from them.

[redmanfixit]

Hmmm. I have been running Wolf primers in Glocks, 1911's and a CZ 75B for a year now and they work perfectly. Never have had a failure to fire.

[LexTalionis]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your input! I know Wolf primers have a bad rap, but I decided to give them one more try. I loaded up 200 rounds of my Tula primers and changed the OAL on my load a little bit. I also made sure the primers were all seated firmly.

For what it's worth, I use:

125gr LRN (my own cast)

4.5gr WSF

1.110 OAL

I went out yesterday with 200 rounds and got a solid 90%-95% firing rate from my normal firing pin and 13lb mainspring! I don't know what happened last time I tested them, but this ratio was solid through the whole batch. And all the FTF's I had ignited on the second strike. Now, 90% is still an annoyingly low rate, but I figure that with an extended pin and their new firing pin spring, I might be able to bump my consistency up some. If I can get to 98%-99%, I would be happy. I will also purchase a 15lb mainspring just in case. (I called Rob at CZCustom last week, and he confirmed that they are out of the extended 75b pins, but he hopes to get some soon.)

So I ordered a few more Tula primers. Casting my own bullets and paying $20/1000 for practice primers (including hazmat), I can get my ammo down to $.05 per round. Of course this is just my practice ammo. For my match stuff, I use Federal primers and Zero FMJ's

Thanks for all your help. I'll keep update this when I get my extended firing pin installed.

[SteelShooten]

I've used several thousand Wolf small rifle primers in my SP-01. Generally performance had been quite good. Wolf primer cup hardness seems to be somewhat variable and on top of that occasionally I find one that won't go off no matter what's done to it. The stock CZ firing pin is rather pointy. I thought it was doing the job just fine but when I recovered my brass, there were a few impressions in the spent primers that made me wonder if I had simply been lucky that they fired. The mainspring is stock.

I put a longer firing pin in my pistol to address the iffy looking hits. Installed it looks like this:

Now the impressions look convincing every time and performance has been excellent.

Open question to anyone who is using the CZ Extended Firing Pin, how does this compare? The original firing pin was short enough that it could barely be seen when looking at the breech (as above).

This one will protrude (slightly) from the breech face when the hammer is at rest so when I use up these Wolf primers, I'll probably go back to the stock firing pin.

[redmanfixit]

My CZ75B is pretty much stock except for sights and a little cleanup. I've run thousands of Wolf primers and now some of the Tula primers and virtually never had a FTF that was not obviously my fault as regards quality control at my press. I use them for my match ammo as well and all the ammo my wife shoots through her Glock and a Hi-power she runs too. I have no complaint about their quality or a need to change anything on any of my guns. No worries.

[JonF]

I have a Custom shop SP01 (non-shadow) and was having issues with even CCI 500 SP primers with the standard firing pin (2 in 50 light strike). I switched to the extended pin and have never had another light strike, even with the light mainspring they install in the gun. I know its not Wolf, but CCI are reputed to be a touch harder than fed primers.

[LexTalionis]

What is the weight on the factory mainspring? I got this one customized already, so I've only ever had a 13 pounder in there.

[wchangose]

extended firing pin in my shadow made wolf primers 100% reliable.

[LexTalionis]

Awesome. I'm hoping to have the same results.

[CeeZer]

Extended pins in 75SA and Shadow, both have 13# main springs - still not 100% ignition with CCI primers, close to but not 100%.

I use Fed primers, used CCIs just for testing (1000 pcs).

[Jody Waring]

Anyone use Sellior & Bellot primers? Even with the extended firing pin, I have been getting light strikes, will be saving them for practice only and Federal for matches.

[GeneBray]

Shot up all my Wolfe primes 3-4 months ago. Now shooting CCI SR. I installed the extended firing pin last year/early this year to help with Wolfe primer issues (which it did but still had problems just not as many). Not a single issue with the CCI SR. After they are gone, its CCI SPs. Don't expect anymore problems. Will go to Winchester or Federal when I need to order primers again. If I end up using Federal may well switch back to regular firing pin. Never a problem with Winchester primers and the standard firing pin. Shooting an SP01 with 11lb recoil spring and 13 lb main spring.

I have a Custom shop SP01 (non-shadow) and was having issues with even CCI 500 SP primers with the standard firing pin (2 in 50 light strike). I switched to the extended pin and have never had another light strike, even with the light mainspring they install in the gun. I know its not Wolf, but CCI are reputed to be a touch harder than fed primers.

[GeneBray]

My extended FP looks the same as your picture. It does not extend past the breach face with the hammer down. I would think that would be VERY bad. Just my opinion.

I've used several thousand Wolf small rifle primers in my SP-01. Generally performance had been quite good. Wolf primer cup hardness seems to be somewhat variable and on top of that occasionally I find one that won't go off no matter what's done to it. The stock CZ firing pin is rather pointy. I thought it was doing the job just fine but when I recovered my brass, there were a few impressions in the spent primers that made me wonder if I had simply been lucky that they fired. The mainspring is stock.

I put a longer firing pin in my pistol to address the iffy looking hits. Installed it looks like this:

Now the impressions look convincing every time and performance has been excellent.

Open question to anyone who is using the CZ Extended Firing Pin, how does this compare? The original firing pin was short enough that it could barely be seen when looking at the breech (as above).

This one will protrude (slightly) from the breech face when the hammer is at rest so when I use up these Wolf primers, I'll probably go back to the stock firing pin.

[GeneBray]

Can't speak about Tula primers. I did use Wolf SR and SP and had ignition problems until I started seating the primers really deep-->= .005". Then most of the problem went away. Switching to an extended firing also helped. Some just would not ignite. If you can get >=.98 or better reliability with the Tulas sounds like a good idea to me. SP01 with 11lb main spring & 13 lb main spring.

I shoot a CZ custom SP01-Tactical with the normal modifications (13lb mainspring, competition hammer). In my match ammo, I use Federal primers and get 100% ignition... so no problems there.

But here's my situation. Grafs.com is selling Tula small pistol primers for a great price right now. I'd love to buy 30,000 of them and use them for practice ammo only, saving my Federals for match ammo. I recently bought 1 box of the Tulas to try in my gun, and I get 50% ignition at best. That, of course, is unacceptable. My question is - if I get an extended firing pin and switch to a lightened firing pin spring, will that allow me to run Tula primers at 99% consistency? Have any of you done this? Will it have negative effects on my Federal primers (pierced primers, etc.)?

CZCustom does not have the extended firing pins in stock yet, so I can't order one to try out on my sample box of primers. If I play it safe and wait for them to get it in stock, the Tula primer sale might have ended already. But if I buy 30k primers and then later find that my firing system modifications don't work, then I'm screwed! I suppose if all the above fails, I could also switch to a heavier mainspring, but I'd rather not mess up my trigger pull.

What do you think I should do?

Edited July 2, 2011 by GeneBray

[JetPow]

I'm using Tula primers all the time with w231 powder and precision( black) bullet on my CZ 75 SP01 Shadow Custom zero ignition issues.

[SteelShooten]

My extended FP looks the same as your picture. It does not extend past the breach face with the hammer down. I would think that would be VERY bad. Just my opinion.

GB,

Thanks for the feedback on the extended pin appearance.

Concerning the protrusion of my firing pin when the hammer is down, it -could- be a problem under certain conditions that, frankly, aren't going to occur. Several things would have to happen all at once for an ND to occur:

1) The chamber would have to be loaded.

2) The hammer would have to be fully down.

3) The ammo in the chamber has to have a 'soft' primer. The Wolf small rifle primers I'm currently feeding it are pretty insensitive. When they are done I will be going back to the stock pin or consider shortening the over-length one.

and

4) Something would have to strike the hammer while 1, 2, and 3 are all happening at once. Just dropping the gun wouldn't do it, the pistol would have to land a specific way.

Ah, and I didn't forget about the firing pin block. It currently contributes nothing to the system so its not a factor.

It might not be quite so bad as the mental picture suggests.

[CeeZer]

Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I was looking for. It looks like I'll be staying away from the Russian brands.

You may have to stay away from CCI primers too.

I have extended firing pins in Shadow and 75SA and had 80-90% ignition with CCI primers - thats at least one round not going off per mag. Both guns have tuned (cut) 13# main springs.

Using Federals only but had to see for myself what'd happen if I had CCIs. I loaded and shot 1K of CCIs.

Do NOT cut firing pin spring - if too short or not powerful enough - you risk going into full auto if and when slide slams forward and pin's inertia drives it out breach face enough to ignite the primer.

Oh, just realized I posted up above

Factory Shadow's main spring should be 18#.

Edited August 24, 2011 by CeeZer