What options for 1X optics?

[barrysuperhawk]

With the threads and discussions about 1X optics, if a shooter were to be pursuaded to switch, what options are out there? Obviously there are standard red-dots in various dot sizes, but what else is there? Please post pictures/links, especially reitcle pix if you have them.

To start out, I currently have a Vortex Strikefire with a 4MOA dot.

but have thought about getting an Eotech XPS 2-2

because the reticle might be useful at longer ranges:

I don't know if this is a practical idea, though. I don't know if the size and spacing on the dots would give me any practical use in ranging or not.

So, what else is there, and if you own what you are posting, what do you think about it?

[Religious Shooter]

I have an XPS2. It's great for close range. But it's not compatible with my eyeball at extended ranges. The dot is starry and can overpower the target. I turn down the dot to make it more manageable and zeroed with the dot at a lower power setting.

The problem that I have with this scope is that (for me and me alone?) varied dot levels changes the POI. I shot two groups on paper at 200 yards at two different intensities back-to-back and they were about 8" apart in elevation.

I'm probably going with the Leupold Prismatic next.

[Kyle O]

I use xps2-2, and have zero issues, accurate, reliable, and fast.

[mpeltier]

I have tried many out there and have a preferance for the sights with a triangle reticle. My current 3 Gun rifle and its back up both have Trijicon TR24R's on them and I also have seveal 1X sights with the same triangle on other rifles. My order of preferance are as follows:

Mepro M21, brighter and bigger than the Trijicon Reflex II. Very tough sight. Has coated lenses and does not wash out. Comes with QR mount and is always on and never needs batteries.

Trijicon Reflex II, Not as bright as the M21 but very useful non the less. I have not ever had it totally wash out, even in the florida sun, but often wished it were brighter. I keep it on a dedicated .22LR AR for a practice gun, but have used it with excellant results out to 230yds on a .223 AR.

Eotech XPS 2-0. Not a bad sight. We use them at work on our duty rifles. I am not crazy about the pixelated effect of the projected reticle, but it works as advertised. I also feel the on off switch could be better. I really wish it would come back on at the last setting it was at when shut off. Sometimes in a hurry, when turning it on you cant see the reticle until you power up the brightness a bit. precious seconds I would hate to bet my life on.

Trijicon also makes an RX30 which is a dot reticle of 6.5 moa. I have not tried one, but looking thru it seems like its brighter than the Reflex II, but the dot is too big for my taste.

Aimpoint makes some tough sights with a loooong battery life. They have a terrible field of view though unless you are shooting both eyes open. This makes it the worst choice in my opinion for longer shots. I also tried it with the 3x magnifier, and its an expensive add on that for me, was money best put towards a 1-4.

Trijicon also makes the Tri-power. I tried one for a short while and did not like it at all. Trijicon tried to make it do too many things, non of which it did very well. For me the reticle was too faint except at the highest brightness setting with the battery power. Even then it was marginal for my taste.

Hope some of this helps you out.

[DyNo!]

If I weren't using a Prismatic, I'd be shooting iron sights. Dots don't do it for me at ranges over 200 yards.

One of these reticules is more crisp than the other:

Edited May 16, 2011 by DyNo!

[Graham Smith]

I currently have a Vortex Sparc (an Aimpoint Micro H1 clone) and it works fairly well for me on my budget. I've shot both an Eotech and an Aimpoint H1 and definitely prefer the H1. The Eotech is a bit too busy and with my eyes, the dots tend to smear - so does the Sparc/Aimpoint but not as bad.

FWIW, I looked at a couple 1x scopes that had a reticle that could be either illuminated or left black, much like you would find in a typical 1-4x scope and believe that this might be a better choice for my eyes. The obvious choice in this arena might be the ACOG, but that's rather out of my price range. I haven't had a chance to look at a Leupold Prismatic, but it looks like a good scope.

[bagdrag]

From this thread and the other thread on the 1x optics I am now getting intrigued by the idea of replacing my iron sights with a 1x optic.

Additionally from this discussion I am interested in the Mepro M21. Seems to address quite a few of the things I don't like about dot optics. I am just wondering if anyone has any comparison views between the bullseye reticle and the "X" reticle. The "x" reticle seems intriguing because it doesn't obscure the target but supposedly the bullseye reticle is better for ranging and close-up targets. Any opinions?

[DyNo!]

What other 1X optics don't have a tinted lens?

It's already hard enough to see some distant targets without losing any light and if there are others than the Pris, I would like to take a look at them.

Edited May 16, 2011 by DyNo!

[esskay]

I have an XPS2. It's great for close range. But it's not compatible with my eyeball at extended ranges. The dot is starry and can overpower the target. I turn down the dot to make it more manageable and zeroed with the dot at a lower power setting.

The problem that I have with this scope is that (for me and me alone?) varied dot levels changes the POI. I shot two groups on paper at 200 yards at two different intensities back-to-back and they were about 8" apart in elevation.

I'm probably going with the Leupold Prismatic next.

Hey RS,

You're not alone on strange and goofy perceived visuals with these red dots (Aimpoint or Eotech). I have astigmatism and most Aimpoints for me bloom out into blobs or comets, regardless of the illumination level. Eotechs are a little more like a streak, perhaps a dot of wet paint that someone smears. The effect seems to be worsened looking through a magnifier. So I've actually found that I can shoot better groups on paper with the optic at 1X than at 3X through a magnifier. With a magnifier, the group spread alone could easily be over 8"!

[DyNo!]

The problem that I have with this scope is that (for me and me alone?) varied dot levels changes the POI. I shot two groups on paper at 200 yards at two different intensities back-to-back and they were about 8" apart in elevation.

Not just you and I don't have any vision problems. A brighter dot seems to be bigger - and just even a little bit bigger at a long distance can mean a miss.

I don't understand why someone would choose a red dot for long distance shooting over irons - does anyone here get good accuracy quickly with red dots at long distance? (Regular people, not Jeff Crambilt )

I haven't looked through a Tripower or Mepro but if either has a tinted lens or anything less than a perfectly crisp " ^ " reticule, it's not something I think would outshoot the Pris.

Edited May 16, 2011 by DyNo!

[Kyle O]

The problem that I have with this scope is that (for me and me alone?) varied dot levels changes the POI. I shot two groups on paper at 200 yards at two different intensities back-to-back and they were about 8" apart in elevation.

Not just you and I don't have any vision problems. A brighter dot seems to be bigger - and just even a little bit bigger at a long distance can mean a miss.

I don't understand why someone would choose a red dot for long distance shooting over irons - does anyone here get good accuracy quickly with red dots at long distance?

I just select the proper adjustment for the lighting conditions, there is a "just right" setting that allows for a fine dot, and readily visible ring. If it is set too bright it will become sort of "spikey" for lack of a better term.

Never in a match, but in practice I've reached up, and clicked the down arrow once or twice to sharpen up the dot. It takes less time than throwing a lever on a scope. POI never changes on me though with the Eotech.

Seems it would be easier in the 400-600yd range to do a holdover with a dot, vs. covering the target with an irons front post.

I gotta admit that I haven't devoted any time to long distance with real irons.

[Stlhead]

If it were not for my preference for the Aimpoints that I was using before I tried the Leupy, you would not have gotten the deal on the one you are shooting now Dr No. I prefer the small crisp dot that I get with the Aimpoints, but I do shoot with both eyes open. I think that everyone has different eyes and different styles, I shoot better with an Aimpoint than I do irons, I found the Prismatic to be a disadvantage compared to the irons. I am nearsighted, but only very slightly, so my glasses correct my vision at distance, but make it worse up close making it more difficult to focus on the front sight of a rifle, I find the aimpoint dot seems to put the least amount of stress on my eyes. Or it could be that I like the long battery life, who knows! Shoot what works for you, odds are that the same kit won't work for everyone. Also a wise man said something about practice winning matches, not gear.

[Graham Smith]

I had not realized that there were as many 1x non-red dot sights out there as there are. There used to be a 1x ACOG (I think) but not sure if it's made any more. But based on this thread, I have found two I had not read about, the Mepro and Trijicon Reflex - both seem to be the same idea and the same price range.

Having spent a little time with different red dots and with my Millet 1-4x just on the 1x setting, I find that the red dots are a bit easier to use close up but in general the scope on 1x isn't bad and I think I could get used to it fairly fast - particularly since they don't have that annoying smearing effect red dots do.

Other than the two mentioned plus the Leupold Prismatic (which appears to be a good scope as well), are there any other non-red dot 1x optics? DyNo, what is the Pris you mentioned a couple times (or is that short for Prismatics)?

[Jadeslade]

I have a Trijicon Reflex 6.5MOA. Zeroed at 300yds to shoot center of the dot. Excellent. Bit of a learning curve.

[pastorjohnd]

If I were to put a 1x on my gun I would use the Eotech 552.XR308. It has four "ballistic drop compensated" dots that are 1 moa & set up specifically for the .308.

Not really sure how to insert pics, but here's a link to the site.

http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=5&cat=1

[Graham Smith]

Addendum to my question: The Mepro and Trijicon are both Reflex sights - that is to say they are reflecting a light beam off of a glass surface in much the same way as a red dot does. I'm not certain if they are free of the smearing seen with red dots. I'm not sure how the Leupold works, but my assumption is that it is the same as any illuminated rifle scope but smaller and without magnification.

[mmchambers06]

Eotech with just the single 1 MOA dot is king of the 1x optics.

The XPS2-1 would be my choice. I've got an old 511.D1.

Edited May 17, 2011 by mmchambers06

[Vespid_Wasp]

I have a Trijicon Reflex II with the 12.5 MOA triangle reticle.

It was mounted on my A1 carbine in the Trijicon Cantilever mount, it is now on the handguard rail of the same carbine in a GG&G Accucam. I am still shooting in Limited with a new flat top 20 inch, but with irons. If that tells you anything.

The Trijicon is superb at 100 yards or less. I have never had any washout issues while outdoors. The large reticle and the blue tint combine to cause me problems at ranges of 200 yards or more.

I haven't looked through one, but it sounds like the Prismatic is the way to go if you want to shoot limited with a dot.

You could look into upgrading the irons on your rifle. I am on my third front post and I have been having some great practice sessions with an aperture front post lately. I tried the skinny A1 post and a fiber optic post. The A1 was slow for me to pick up and the fiber optic didn't work well for me at longer ranges.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Vespid_Wasp

[Vespid_Wasp]

Addendum to my question: The Mepro and Trijicon are both Reflex sights - that is to say they are reflecting a light beam off of a glass surface in much the same way as a red dot does. I'm not certain if they are free of the smearing seen with red dots. I'm not sure how the Leupold works, but my assumption is that it is the same as any illuminated rifle scope but smaller and without magnification.

The triangle in my Reflex always looks crisp to me. A friend of mine sees it as a blob. I think it is just his eyes.

[Graham Smith]

The triangle in my Reflex always looks crisp to me. A friend of mine sees it as a blob. I think it is just his eyes.

Yup. Any kind of astigmatism or irregularity in the lens can do with a red dot and this appears to be the same issue.

[bagdrag]

...The large reticle and the blue tint combine to cause me problems at ranges of 200 yards or more...

How does the tint affect shooting at 200 yards or more? I don't use 1x optics so I am trying to determine their pros and cons. I realize the Mepro 21 I am considering has a blue tint to its lens so I am interested in yours and others views on the subject.

Edited May 17, 2011 by bagdrag

[bagdrag]

The triangle in my Reflex always looks crisp to me. A friend of mine sees it as a blob. I think it is just his eyes.

Yup. Any kind of astigmatism or irregularity in the lens can do with a red dot and this appears to be the same issue.

So astigmatism will distort the reticle? Not too happy to hear that as my shooting eye is astigmatic.

[kellyn]

I prefer the Pris over the Aimpoint and Eotech for a few reasons.

1) I'm on Team Leupold so they gave me one.

2) The reticle is MUCH crisper than an Eotech. It is quite a bit easier to shoot longer range targets with the Prismatic.

3) The lens is much brighter with the Pris than an Eotech in poor low light conditions. I was shooting drills with another shooter at around dusk. We were shooting MGM lollipops at 100. I had about 15 more minutes of shooting than he did with his Eotech. He simply could not see the targets though the lens of the Eotech whereas they were easily visible through the Pris. He bought a Pris the next day.

4) No batteries needed.

5) I think the Aimpoint and Eotech are slightly better in the dark (as opposed to low light) but that is of little help for 3 gun.

6) I've broken 2 Eotechs (which the factory did repair), I have yet to break a Pris.

If you get a Pris get the DCD reticle not the Turkey PLex.

[Wap wap]

The prizmatic uses two optical fibers in the lighting unit and can be removed from the main scope tube. It is outstanding when going from dark interiors (rooms) with the lit reticle to bright sunlight which becomes a black reticle. The change in the ratio of brightness of the lighting to my pupil dilation seems to work best for me with the priz. 200 yd a-zones are not as easy as the leo spr reticle set on low power. I've used the prizmatic since its introduction on Ar's and shotguns. I'm on the second as the first developed lint from many slug rounds. Currently it rides a 930 where I think they work best as a shotgun sight. Have an aimpoint and eotech, but prefer the older Tasco pro 45 mil with the dot size change options. The eotech and the second eotech went bad when used on a 458 socom. The recoil batters the end of the batterys and they leak. I found its best use (for me) was as a scout set up on an ak with the ultimak mount. A zone hits were about 100 yds for me. Currently use a leo mk4 1.5 x 5 because of its versatility. If I were in the market for a straight 1x I would look hard at the SS 1x4 ffp which gives the desired 1x with a lot of extras.

[Vlad]

I have a question about people using the Prismatic, how good is it when dealing with parallax? One of the things I like about plain red dots is that I can mount them pretty much anywhere as eye relief doesn't matter as much, and shooting from ackward positions is somewhat easier. How does that work with Prismatic which seems to have 'real' optics in it.

Kelly how do you deal with cant at longer ranges with the circle type reticule? It would seem that the crosshair type would help with that, thats one problem I have with pure dots.

Also how bright is the Prismatic in full sun.