9mm Minor 124g 3.8 Tighgroup seems harsh

[ktm300]

I have been looking at switching from shooting 45 to 9mm in singlestack for a couple of reasons. #1, to drop the cost of shooting and practice and #2, to get some help getting my splits down.

I had been shooting 115g MG JHP with 3.6g of Clays loaded pretty short at 1.08 OAL in my XMD9. They make minor, and shoot pretty soft. I looked here and it seems like a lot of folk are running 124g or 147g 9mm over 4.0 to 4.2 of Tightgroup. I wanted to "keep the cost down" so I want to go with the 124g instead of the 147g. The original idea had my cost of bullets at abotu 50% from 230g 45 to 115g 9mm. With 124g the cost is 46% less than the 230g so that's close enough.

I found a few hundred Frontier CMJ,and a pound of Tightgroup localy to try out. I started by making up 20 each using 4.0g, 4.1g, and 4.2g of tightgroup at 1.16 OAL as the STI Trojan 9mm seems to like them a little longer. All seemed pretty harsh so I did some 3.8g loads. Still pretty harsh and quite a bit of muzzle rise.

I just loaded up some with 3.6g of Tightgroup, but again, no love. I shot my old Clays load, then the new Tightgroup load. 3.6 of Clays pushing 115g JHP, 3.6g of Tightgroup pushing 124g and it was night and day. My splits are about 50% quicker with the Clays load. I also took some Federal Champion 115g factory loads out and they shot softer than the Tightgroup with 3.6g.

This is my first go at Tightgroup so I am not sure if it is just the way the powder shoots or am I missing something on the load.

[98006]

Are you chronoing the loads? that the only way to really know if they do make minor. I would not be surprised if your 124gr TG load did not

[Red Ryder]

It sounds like you have some Chrono work ahead of you. I use 4.1 to 4.2 grains of Tightgroup behind a 124 CMJ 1.155 COL. It makes a 132 to 136 PF. I too think Tightgroup is a little snappy. That's why I also have a VV N320 and an IMR SR 7625 load worked up. They are much softer shooting. Good luck!

[Sarge]

Something seems amiss. Not sure what it is though. Your definition of harsh may not be what I'm thinking. Any 9minor load I ever shot using 124's and TG was nowhere near what I would call harsh.

As mentioned you need to chrono these loads as I agree anything under 4.0 will be marginal as far as PF is concerned.

[R-Bros_JLR]

I settled on 3.9g of Titegroup with a 124 MG CMJ at 1.14 with my Spartan. it is safely above the minimum PF and appears to be very accurate. Ended up having to shoot a 3gun match with it a couple weeks ago and it worked really well.

[Boxerglocker]

I settled on 3.9g of Titegroup with a 124 MG CMJ at 1.14 with my Spartan. it is safely above the minimum PF and appears to be very accurate. Ended up having to shoot a 3gun match with it a couple weeks ago and it worked really well.

I run 4.1 at 1.140 with a 124 PD out of my G34 it runs right at 1100 (official chrono at WA State IDPA last year) I use 135 as my personal minimum power floor. I find it is always a little more accurate at extended ranges and still has the hit power for those occasional 35 yard poppers in USPSA.

I run the same load in my own 9mm Spartan too.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Boxerglocker

[RH45]

I just chronoed my 9mm, minor loads the other day. I use a Zero, 125 grain, jhp, .356(.38 Super bullet) OAL 1.12 with either 3.9 grains of Titegroup, or, 4 grains of VVN320. Both loads were running 1038-1042fps out of both of my 5" M&P pros.

The 4 grains of VVN320 is softer.

[RH45]

I just chronoed my 9mm, minor loads the other day. I use a Zero, 125 grain, jhp, .356(.38 Super bullet) OAL 1.12 with either 3.9 grains of Titegroup, or, 4 grains of VVN320. Both loads were running 1038-1042fps out of both of my 5" M&P pros.

The 4 grains of VVN320 is softer.

[ktm300]

I just don't expect a 9mm load to go bang as hard as the tightgroup loads do. Event below 4 grains it seems to be more of a handfull than factory stuff. I am going to work up a load with some other powders and see what I get.

I am commited to the 124g bullet, I just bought a case of MG CMJ's so now I just need to find a powder I am happy with that makes minor.

Thanks for the information, I will pull out the crono and do some more work.

[45 Raven]

Here is some of my Chronograph information with 4.2 grains of TiteGroup and the Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP at a COAL of 1.120" if it will be any help:

Springfield EMP = 1017 FPS - 126 PF

Glock G26 = 1112 FPS - 137 PF

Glock G19 = 1121 FPS - 139 PF

Glock G17 = 1118 FPS - 138 PF

Glock G34 = 1161 FPS - 143 PF

I found it quite interesting that there was virtually no statistically significant difference in velocity in the G26, G19, and G17.

[ktm300]

I loaded up some 3.9 - 4.1 - 4.3 of TG, at an OAL of 1.16, got the crony, and the Trojan 9mm out today and this is what I found.

All 124g Frontier CMJ

Gains - Avg fps - PF

3.9 - 1017 - 126

4.1 - 1073 - 133

4.3 - 1106 - 137

This time I also shot groups and all 3 of these loads did about the same. It was about 3" at 25 yards. I kind of suck at shooting a pistol off a rest. I can get pretty darn close to that off hand.

My old Clays load was a little to soft with a 115g 3.6g and OAL of 1.085 (OAL to fit my XDM) It was running 1048 for a PF of 120.5

I will load some at 4.0 and see what I get.

For whatever reason the load felt good today. The harshness fromt the other day is pretty much gone.

[CeeZer]

I too find Clays shoots softer than TG, even 124gr over Clays vs 147gr over TG.

[CocoBolo]

I too find Clays shoots softer than TG, even 124gr over Clays vs 147gr over TG.

I find that N320 rocks with 124gr MTG in 9 mm, even compared to Clays. Harder to get, cost more, just as clean but a softer pulse. But Clays rules with 147gr. TG in 40 with 200gr jacketed, is a good load.

I always thought that factory 9 was minor, but I learned last night that is not the case two guys borrowed my crono to check their ammo for Space City Challenge, well thier factory stuff only came out 121 pf. So you need to crono, else you don't know what you are shooting. Another guy showed up with a different crono and it didn't change anything, go figure. My major 9's came out at 1378 fps 170 pf right where they should be so I knew it was right.

Edited April 15, 2011 by CocoBolo

[lcs]

Fast powders (which Titegroup is) and light bullets will be more felt recoil. Try 147gn with Titegroup--quite soft.

[Flexmoney]

I have been looking at switching from shooting 45 to 9mm in singlestack for a couple of reasons. #1, to drop the cost of shooting and practice and #2, to get some help getting my splits down.

The answer to getting your splits down is likely found in technique, not powder selection. Hear me now and believe me later.

Edit to add... I run TG and 124/125 grain bullets at 135 power factor.

[CocoBolo]

I have been looking at switching from shooting 45 to 9mm in singlestack for a couple of reasons. #1, to drop the cost of shooting and practice and #2, to get some help getting my splits down.

The answer to getting your splits down is likely found in technique, not powder selection. Hear me now and believe me later.

No doubt but a 1" dowel and 4 ft of rope and a old fashioned 5# window weight used frequently will take the harsh out and improve you ability to apply the technique.

[CiDirkona]

No doubt but a 1" dowel and 4 ft of rope and a old fashioned 5# window weight used frequently will take the harsh out and improve you ability to apply the technique.

Is this the 'wind the rope up and around the dowel with your arms out in front of you' exercise?

[CocoBolo]

No doubt but a 1" dowel and 4 ft of rope and a old fashioned 5# window weight used frequently will take the harsh out and improve you ability to apply the technique.

Is this the 'wind the rope up and around the dowel with your arms out in front of you' exercise?

Yep thats the one. The proof was in the putting the guy that did that was shooting 192 pf ammo in a single stack and his gun flipped less that my ultra flat Open gun, so I know it will work! Combine that with double plugging and you are on your way!

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I just started using Clays with a 124 MG, 1.16 oal in a G17. I started with 3.6 grains but it wasn't cycling all the time and definitely not able to lock the slide back with a factory Gen 4 spring. Upped it to 3.7 grains and I can go to slide lock and ejection is beautiful with the factory spring.

It shoots softer than I could ever imagine. I will have to find a chrono soon to make sure I make PF for my first major match this summer. If it makes PF, I'll be stoked and probably never ever use anything different.

[ktm300]

The answer to getting your splits down is likely found in technique, not powder selection. Hear me now and believe me later.

I hear you now and believe now. Technique is big, if not, the biggest part for sure.

I am working on my technique as hard as I can. I can get back on target quicker and see my 2nd shot faster with less input from the gun. My .22 splits on my second shot are about 40% better than the .45 splits at the same target so gun input has something to do with it. As my technique gets better I hope to bring that difference down but I don't think it will ever be the same.

I am going to try the idea of making my grip stronger to see what that does.

[RH45]

I have never managed to get a 9mm load, with Clays to be anywhere near as accurate as Titegroup, or, N320, in MY guns.

[ktm300]

I have never managed to get a 9mm load, with Clays to be anywhere near as accurate as Titegroup, or, N320, in MY guns.

I loaded up a couple hundred 124g RN @ 4.0 TG 1.16 OAL. I am going to shoot them in the AM if the rain stops. From my test batch they did shoot pretty good groups. I just did not have enough to get a good sample.

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I have never managed to get a 9mm load, with Clays to be anywhere near as accurate as Titegroup, or, N320, in MY guns.

Never used titegroup or n320, but Clays is SUPER FLUFFY which keeps it from metering well. I haven't shot my loads for groups but had little trouble shooting well with it at a match.

Edited April 16, 2011 by fastmtnbiker33w

[coorsleftfield]

I have never managed to get a 9mm load, with Clays to be anywhere near as accurate as Titegroup, or, N320, in MY guns.

I loaded up a couple hundred 124g RN @ 4.0 TG 1.16 OAL. I am going to shoot them in the AM if the rain stops. From my test batch they did shoot pretty good groups. I just did not have enough to get a good sample.

Like to hear the results of this. I just loaded up a few hundred 124GR RN Frontier plated with 4.0TG. OAL is about 1.145. Hoping this will make > 125PF out of a 5" M&P

[RH45]

I have never managed to get a 9mm load, with Clays to be anywhere near as accurate as Titegroup, or, N320, in MY guns.

I loaded up a couple hundred 124g RN @ 4.0 TG 1.16 OAL. I am going to shoot them in the AM if the rain stops. From my test batch they did shoot pretty good groups. I just did not have enough to get a good sample.

Like to hear the results of this. I just loaded up a few hundred 124GR RN Frontier plated with 4.0TG. OAL is about 1.145. Hoping this will make > 125PF out of a 5" M&P

One of my loads is a 125 grain, jhp, with 3.9 grains of Titegroup, at 1.12, and when I chronoed it again, last week, they were averaging 1040 fps, so you SHOULD be good, unless you are unlucky enough to have a slow barrel.