kdj Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I hate it when people assume that standard practices don't apply to them and they can do things their way, especially when ROing! I'm very tolerant if they are trying to help out but hate it when they are not trying to learn and just assume you should adapt to their way. In a recent USPSA match, there was a stage that involved starting with the gun loaded on a platform. The match was run in a very informal manner with people in a self selected squad running range duties. All OK so far. This stage had a number of different options for shooting it, so my brain was already close to overload since I needed to think Anyway, as I was finishing my walk through a gentleman grabbed the timer and offered to run me through. So, I'm waiting for him to give me the command to "Load and Make ready" while thinking "two steps, ... targets on move before steel ... etc". Time passes ... Eventually, I turn and look at the "RO" and he says something like "well, are you going to lock and load?" ... uh ... brain hits overload. "You mean Load and Make Ready"? "Yeah ... what ever" So, I'm now wondering if I should just say "how about we find another RO" but this guy is very proud of his training (clearly in a different sport) and I'm a visitor to this place ... so, I load the gun and place it on the platform ... my usual routine broken and worries going through my head. Should I go ahead ... is it safe ... seemed within bounds and I'm trying to be polite so I go ahead. The buzzer goes off, I grab the gun, point at the first target and notice the absence of a dot!!! My routine had been messed up and with the brain overload and concentration on things other than my shooting, I'd forgotten to turn the sight on! I shot the stage badly but that was par for the day even without the sight problem . I suppose, I shouldn't have started but to get back to the thread of my rant: Why do people do things they don't know how to do ... and get defensive when it's pointed out that there's a standard way to do these things and for a good reason. Grumble ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 This is one of Erik Warren's favorite grumbles. Oh, Erik? From a (former and reformed) offender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I take it your match was not a USPSA match? If it was, you can simply point to the rulebook where all is spelled out in BOLD type. Jay Worden pointed out that all range commands around the world are in English. Even if a competitor doesn't know a lick of English otherwise, he or she will know what those words mean. Consistent range commands are the only way to ensure it continues. Secondly, the RO's job is to help the shooter to negotiate the course of fire in a safe manner and to have fun. Consistent and correct range commands help to ensure it. I hate it when the RO either doesn't know and won't learn, or does know the old commands and won't learn when they change. Willful ignorance is the worst kind there is. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 "Do you understand the course of fire?" refuses to go away. I hear this from every RO. I wish USPSA would just make this a standard command Waiting on a positive response from the shooter after "shooter ready" is also way too common. My understanding is if the shooter assumes the required start position, I'm to figure he's ready unless he says otherwise. About half the time I hear "if you're ready, give me a nod". It's irritating and makes me the odd man out for using the actual commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 you should see the hodge podge of commands at an IDPA match, even the bigger ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Shooter ready? Dude! In a hate rant about improper range commands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 we could make it a humor thread and list the best ones we've heard or would love to hear. I have heard: "Let's Rock & Roll" "Charge, Decock and Recover to the Holster" "gas 'er up" " cargo y prepare' " "Stuff that Turkey" I would like to hear: "Skin that smoke wagon and see what it get's ya" "jerk that pistol and set to work" "I said throw down, boy" Ok, so all those were from Tombstone, but what about "Get er' done!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 You got me. I can't fight the forces of improper range commands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 I take it your match was not a USPSA match? If it was, you can simply point to the rulebook where all is spelled out in BOLD type. It was ... I did ... and the response was of the "don't be anal" flavor ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 It was ... I did ... and the response was of the "don't be anal" flavor ... Obviously, your next statement was "Since this is an official match, and I'm officially registered and acting as a competitor, what are you unofficially doing on the firing line?????" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 JFD, For newer shooter I sometimes use "If you have no questions you may load and make ready." That way if they don't speak English they can still LAMR. I just like to give newer shooters a chance to make sure they know what they are doing. For more experienced shooters, the secound they step in the box, or up to the starting position, it is THEIR responsibility to ask questions, not mine to make sure they understand the COF. One of my pet peeves is "The range is safe." NO, the range is NEVER safe. It might be clear after you comply with the last comand of "Holster" but I have never seen "The range is safe" in any of the rule books. Good one's I have heard at the starting position: "Stoke up that smoke wagon" "ON your knees Bitch" My personal favorite responce to the "Do you have any questions" is "What are you doing after that match " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 That really sucks. The problem is that an RO who doesn't pay attention to detail when issuing commands just might not be paying attention to detail when he's watching to ensure the safety of the range, or when he's scoring the targets. No one should be joking around once a round gets chambered. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 (edited) "OK Cowboy. Stoke it, stroke it, and poke it." OK so we share a pet peave. I have business card sized slips of paper with the range commands printed on them in my range bag. I give them out to anyone in need. I also took a label maker and stuck them on my bright yellow shot timer so that if I hand off the timer to someone else, they have no excuse for not using the propper commands. Yo bubba, its right there on the timer, just read them. Edited March 29, 2004 by IPSCDRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 This should probably be in "match Screw ups" but a non-std range command nearly caused a competitor a DQ & it was all my fault! I was RO'ing a shooter who was shooting his 2nd USPSA Match (he was an LEO & knew how to shoot to boot). It is my practice that after scoring and while waiting for the range to clear, I stand forward of the 180 if folks are still downrange taping; I try to be the last one accross the 180; this lets me keep an eye on the next shooter & tells him/her that we are not yet ready to begin. I waited for the squad, crossed the 180, stood next to the shooter & while giving the range one more look over, I said, "OK". Before I could give the command LAMR, the competitor's gun comes out of the holster. "STOP! REHOLSTER!" He complied & was visibly shaken. I conferred with 2 other ROs on the squad & a CRO, & due to the fact that the range was safe AND I gave the ambigous, non-standard range command "ok", I decided to give the shooter a warning only. I expalined everything to the shooter & I am sure he will never forget that one now. Is it wrong to unholter before LAMR? Of course. Is it wrong for the shooter to unholtser if the range command is anything but LAMR? Yes - and this shooter was just as wrong as we all are everytime we follow range commands like"gas her up" or "if you understand the course of fire". It has to be LAMR & nothing else. Hopefully I will never forget to only say "LAMR". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 "The range is safe" is used around here and directed towards the workers. Without "the range is safe" they will stay put and do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I thought "range is safe" came from the IDPA rulebook. Also, during my RO training, I was taught that it was okay to ask if the shooter had any questions. This fit into the "pre-course banter" category. I like it because it gives the shooter time to compose themselves and feel unrushed. The last thing I want on my hands when I RO is a super stressed someone with a loaded gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Hell, I get more stressed when the RO "engages in pre-course banter" because I am already prepared to shoot and the babbling twit is just taking me out of my mental state. Just give me the F'in command so I can go! Do you wonder why my hand is on my gun and my head is looking back over my shoulder at the RO? I flatly refuse to draw until I get the LAMR command. OK, with problem ROs, after a few iterations of non-commands, I draw when I hear the word "Load," as I figure that's enough to successfully arbitrate a DQ. When I say LAMR and the shooter says to me, "Aren't you going to ask me if I have any questions?" or "Aren't you going to ask me whether I understand the course of fire?" it's just oh-so-precious when I say, "No, not my job, Load and Make Ready." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 [Range Nazi Voice] "Fine Erik, No pre-course banter for you!" [/Range Nazi Voice] I guess I could be a kinder and gentler RO and tailor my pre-course banter as appropriate ... but it's so much fun talking at you. Besides I have to get you back for the last time you told me: "No, not my job, Load and Make Ready." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Non-standard range commands are a pet peeve of mine. I have grown to accept the fact that some folks (ROs) are going to engage in conversation and they may use non-standard commands. That type of thing used to bother me a lot, but now I just go with the flow. I refuse to let something as trivial as, "Do you understand the course of fire..." to screw with my "set". I can't control the RO, but I can control how I react to the RO. BTW, some of you guys are pretty anal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Happened to me once, next time reply: "Not ready", it's YOUR match not the RO's!! Indeed, He/she's there for you! And always turn that dot on. (Not for iron sights ) DVC, Wile E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 And always turn that dot on. At least I proved that tube sighting on a Aimpoint works ... and I guess I'm going to practice my "speed dot turning on" for the future Wonder what's a good par time on that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 We were actually discussing a battery saving way for red dot scopes the other morning. The technique makes use of a red permanent marker. Now that I think about it, you wouldn't have to remember to turn it off or on either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I can't control the RO, but I can control how I react to the RO. You write wise words there ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 "The range is safe" is used around here and directed towards the workers. Without "the range is safe" they will stay put and do nothing. Try saying the correct "Range is clear" command and focus it towards the folks who need motivating. Its all in the voice inflection. One good RO habit I learned from a very learned man from Hungary (Hi Ivan) is to stand in front of the shooter as she gets to the line. Don't move off to her side until the range is cleared so that YOU are the last person to clear the line before you issue the LAMR command. No one will "think they heard you say LAMR" while you are standing directly in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 No one will "think they heard you say LAMR" while you are standing directly in front of them. You had better hope so anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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