Hornady’s solution to my priming issues.

[CocoBolo]

What is it they say, "They just don't make them like they use to". 60K plus rounds on the LNL no primer seating issues.

I have not had any primer seating issues on my XL650 either.

If brute force isn't working you are just not using enough.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

I'm not defending my purchase, I got two XL650's in a deal, so I kept one for a backup to the LNL.

[angus6]

Not sure if to be happy about coming across this thread as I'd settled on the LnL over the 650. Guess I'll research a little more

[mizer67]

What is it they say, "They just don't make them like they use to". 60K plus rounds on the LNL no primer seating issues.

I have not had any primer seating issues on my XL650 either.

If brute force isn't working you are just not using enough.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

I'm not defending my purchase, I got two XL650's in a deal, so I kept one for a backup to the LNL.

Before I a built a new reloading bench and bolted it down (thinking my old one moving could be partially to blame for my priming issues) I was lifting a 350 lb. reloading bench with 6 cases of bullets weighing it down off it's front legs in order to seat primers. Enough so that I actually put a hole in my drywall at one point.

I don't think I'm physically capable of exerting more force without taking a running start at it.

[ben b.]

Not sure if to be happy about coming across this thread as I'd settled on the LnL over the 650. Guess I'll research a little more

Check Dillon problems in the Dillon forum, so you are not surprised. I've loaded on 550, 650 and LnL. None of them are perfect.

[lugnut]

I've never used a Dillon, but I do wish the LNL would seat the primers below flush easier. I find the Federals seat best.. maybe their cups aren't as tight and hence seat deeper. I find that I can get into a rhythm that allows the primers to seat better... almost like when I feel the primer centered in the pocket then give a firm push at the end of the stroke. I've seated Federal primers for my revo that needs the primers seated well and it works no problem. All in all I still like the LNL quite a bit. Changing calibers is a charm.

[GregJ]

I've only loaded on a LNL for about a year, picked it up used, and love it. I have never loaded on a Dillon, so my experience with a AP is limited to the LNL. Besided the initial tweaking and tuning, I have had no issues with mine. I have read several of these primer related posts here and on other forums, and being curious about mine, tried a few things on mine last night.

- If you take an empty brass, and with no primers in the tube/shuttle, when the ram in lowered, see if you can remove the cartridge from the shell plate. If you cannot, then the punch has been raised up into the primer pocket far enough to prevent it from being removed, and should be enough to seat a primer.

- Take a digital caliper and measure the primer pocket depth and the depth of the primer. I found only about .003" of a difference. If this is all the space in the primer pocket, you wont be able to seat it any deeper.

- I took a spent primer, and tried to seat it manually with a punch, and was not able to seat it any deeper than with the LNL.

Not sure if this helps any. Hope the OP gets his LNL squared away.

[98sr20ve]

I know it sucks. I was told by a bunch of people that own LnL's that they are great. Now I find out their standards are different or that they have/had the same issues I had. I am glad Hornady gave me my money back. I just couldn't trust that press for match ammo.

Almost all of the LNL owners I talked to said the same thing; that they love them. Some of them did admit to having high primer problems, and going through the same trouble-shooting steps with Hornady's techs. I think you are right about LNL owners standards being different. It looks like they think "flush is enough." It might be for some applications. I wish they had been more open about the priming issues. The only reason I can think of, for them defending the press, is that they are really defending their "choice" of press, and do not want to admit they made a mistake. What bothers me most is Hornady's techs acting like they never heard of the problem before, and talking to me like I am expecting too much of their equipment. I am confused . I thought that any product that did not meet standards, would not be on the market long. Hornady, Midway, Cabelas, Graffs, etc. can't keep them in stock. I like Hornady's powder measures, the bushing system, the indexing of the shellplate, their dies, and most of their equipment. I do not understand why they would risk losing their reputation over a progressive press design that is faulty. Maybe Hornady thinks that seating primers just flush, and having to load slowly (and check every case after it is primed) is "good enough." I wish I had known about the all of the trouble before-hand. I would have never bought the LNL. Now, I have way too much invested in it to come out anywhere near even if I were to sell it. I can use it for case prep... I am going to keep working on it when I have time. If I ever get it to seat primers below flush consistantly, I will be happy with what I have. In the mean time, I am going to invest the money I was going to invest in the LNL, in Dillon equipment. I know the 550 works correctly. While I might purchase a Lee classic turret (or maybe even a Redding T-7 turret (for small side work)) in the future, I am sure I will invest in a Dillon Super 1050 (or two). I am equally sure I will NOT be buying any more of Hornady's presses. I'm not upset with them enough to not buy any of their other products. Hornady makes some very good products and I will not deprive myself of them. I do not know much about RCBS' progressive presses, but I have an old JR 2 that I have reloaded thousands of rounds on. When I pulled the old RCBS JR out of a box that was left out under a shed for many years, I thought I might have to completely replace it. The handle, toggle block, primer arm, and various small parts were covered in scale rust. I e-mailed RCBS and asked them what they would charge to refurbish the press. They informed me that they do not reburbish presses, and asked me what parts I needed. I listed the parts, and they said they (the parts) were on their way to me. I asked for the bill, and they told me there is not charge. I explained that the press was messed-up because of MY neglect, and I was more than willing to pay for the parts. RCBS told me there is no charge, regardless of how the press was damaged. They would not let me even pay for the shipping. RCBS's warranty is that good! Dillon's warranty is legendary, no BS. While Hornady may have a good warranty, but I would not call it a "no BS" warranty. Some of the Hornady techs I spoke to, were very helpful and tried to make things right. Others made me feel like it was my fault the press did not function correctly, or I was just imagining a problem. One of the Hornady techs told me he had a lot of calls he had to get to, and we had to hurry it up and finish our call. I might consider a Dillon XL650, if I can get enough information on it to be comfortable with it's priming system. I have read a lot of Ka-Boom issues with the 650's priming system, and I would like to know if it is a very common issue, or if it is rare and due to operator error, and bad parts (not a design issue). I realize that it costs more for each caliber conversion on the 650, but I also realize that once it's bought, it's mine and I do not have to buy another or replace certain parts periodically at my expense. Did you purchase a 650? If you did, tell me if I will love one, or should I wait and just get a couple of 1050's (one for large primer, another for small primers)? My high volume calibers are: 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, 7.62X39mm, 30-06, .45 ACP, 40 S&W, and 9mm. Other high volume calibers are, to a lesser extent: 380 Auto, 38 Special, 44 Magnum, 8X57mm, 10mm Auto, and 22-250. Loading for all these calibers is what made the LNL (5 station, auto index, and casefeeder) attractive in the first place. I spoke with Brian, and he recommended the 550. I went with his recommendation and I am glad I did. I like the 550 plenty. I am just looking at loading a significant amount more for some of the rifle calibers (i.e. 223, 7.62 NATO, 7.62X39mm). I am in the Rifle club at my University, and some of us were throwing around the idea of a rifle drill team. The amount of shooting we will need to do, to reach the skill level we desire, will make a 1050 very attractive. We were also discussing the possibilty of getting a 650, with caliber conversions for each caliber rifle, and adding a bullet-feeder to bring the production rate up to 1050 levels (if this is possible). If I thought I could get Hornady to refund everything I bought from them, for the LNL AP, I would probably send it to them and spend the refund on a Dillon XL650.

Your in the same boat that I was in. Really sorry for the trouble. Hornady gave me all my money back. I bought a 650. It's FAR better from a design point of view. I liked some features of the LnL. I was afraid of primer detonations as well. I had a 550 before. It worked. LnL did not and was a PITA to make work (casefeeder, slider, etc). Priming was horrible. THe 650 primer punch as double to triple the travel of the tiny Hornady one. That is the LnL problem. It simply runs out of primer punch travel before the primer is seated. After that the harder you push all your doing is twisting the ram. No extra force is going to the primer.

650 worked from the start. No fiddling, no tricks. It's perfect. I would call Hornady, ask for a new press, tell them you tried everything and just need it to work. When they said they will send you a new press tell them you just plan on selling it. They said they would give me my money back at that point. I had it for 5 months and had a long history of calling and asking for parts. THey even rebuilt the frame once. It didn't solve anything. Be nice but firm. Good Luck.

[98sr20ve]

I've only loaded on a LNL for about a year, picked it up used, and love it. I have never loaded on a Dillon, so my experience with a AP is limited to the LNL. Besided the initial tweaking and tuning, I have had no issues with mine. I have read several of these primer related posts here and on other forums, and being curious about mine, tried a few things on mine last night.

- If you take an empty brass, and with no primers in the tube/shuttle, when the ram in lowered, see if you can remove the cartridge from the shell plate. If you cannot, then the punch has been raised up into the primer pocket far enough to prevent it from being removed, and should be enough to seat a primer.

- Take a digital caliper and measure the primer pocket depth and the depth of the primer. I found only about .003" of a difference. If this is all the space in the primer pocket, you wont be able to seat it any deeper.

- I took a spent primer, and tried to seat it manually with a punch, and was not able to seat it any deeper than with the LNL.

Not sure if this helps any. Hope the OP gets his LNL squared away.

I must have loaded 60K+ rounds or so on my 550. Not a single high primer. As soon as I got the LnL I could not get it to seat primers enough to prevent the primers for not firing. 1/100 was the norm. Sometimes 5X that amount. They all seated high so you could see or feel the ones that were bad. You can "snap" the handle at the end as you push to primer. That is freaking CRAZY to do in my book. I refuse to do that.

[ben b.]

My buddy had high primer problems at the match last month. He loads on a 650.

[98sr20ve]

My buddy had high primer problems at the match last month. He loads on a 650.

It's not about the operator making a mistake. It's about some of the LnL's not being able to seat a primer below flush no matter how hard you push. It's not every machine. But some machines just wont do it no matter what you try.

Edited May 27, 2011 by 98sr20ve

[Shadowrider]

Hey roadapple,

I saw in an above post that you are looking at a Redding T7 turret press. Words can't express how highly I think of mine. Absolutely rock solid press that Redding! You can leave a couple of calibers setup in it plus a gRX die. They're great for doing precision rifle and small batch load development before cranking out 1000's on your Dillon.

Okay back to the topic at hand...

[roadapple]

Hey roadapple,

I saw in an above post that you are looking at a Redding T7 turret press. Words can't express how highly I think of mine. Absolutely rock solid press that Redding! You can leave a couple of calibers setup in it plus a gRX die. They're great for doing precision rifle and small batch load development before cranking out 1000's on your Dillon.

Okay back to the topic at hand...

Thanks! Good to see another motorcycle enthusiast on the forum!

Edited May 29, 2011 by roadapple

[roadapple]

I read on one of the forums where someone JB Welded a small primer cup to the bottom of the primer ram. I took the primer punch assy. apart, and cut about 1 1/2 coils off of the spring. This allows the ram to move further up into the nut. I placed an expended primer cup under the ram, and viola! It looks like it will work! I primed a 9mm case, and it seated the primer as far as it could go without deforming the primer. I was wondering if anyone knows if the JB Weld will hold under the kind of pressure that will be exerted on it? Hornady could make all this go away if they would just redesign the rams 1/16th to 1/8th inch longer on the bottom, shorten the spring, and allow the ram to move farther up. It seems everything on this press is too short. The cam wire for the casefeeder is too short to be adjusted properly. The plunger rod for the casefeeder pivot block is too short. I had to press an expended 38 Special case onto it to make it long enough to function correctly. I wonder if my press is "out of spec" or Hornady's manufacturing is just plain crap?

[ben b.]

I read on one of the forums where someone JB Welded a small primer cup to the bottom of the primer ram. I took the primer punch assy. apart, and cut about 1 1/2 coils off of the spring. This allows the ram to move further up into the nut. I placed an expended primer cup under the ram, and viola! It looks like it will work! I primed a 9mm case, and it seated the primer as far as it could go without deforming the primer. I was wondering if anyone knows if the JB Weld will hold under the kind of pressure that will be exerted on it? Hornady could make all this go away if they would just redesign the rams 1/16th to 1/8th inch longer on the bottom, shorten the spring, and allow the ram to move farther up. It seems everything on this press is too short. The cam wire for the casefeeder is too short to be adjusted properly. The plunger rod for the casefeeder pivot block is too short. I had to press an expended 38 Special case onto it to make it long enough to function correctly. I wonder if my press is "out of spec" or Hornady's manufacturing is just plain crap?

I don't get it. The primer punch, with no primer in place, extends well into the case. My cam wires have plenty of adjustment. The same with the case drop plunger rod.

[drysideshooter]

I have loaded somewhere around 20k rounds on my LnL and the only primer issue I've had is that occasionally the shuttle won't pick up a primer. If there isn't a primer present when I go to prime I usually feel it.

Looking at how the actual primer seating works I'm really suprised that there have been so many problems. It seems to me like it must be a manufacturing tolerance issue. It's a pretty simple system. It would seem like Hornady could make a couple of somewhat oversize priming stems to send to those that have the problem.

I wonder if some of the problems may have been caused by using the wrong part, ie: using the pistol or rifle primer seater when the other one should have been used?

[98sr20ve]

I wonder if some of the problems may have been caused by using the wrong part, ie: using the pistol or rifle primer seater when the other one should have been used?

After about a half a dozen calls to Hornady I doubt people with a ongoing issues are missing something so basic. I know I wasn't. The more I think about it the more I am beginning to think it's some sort of flex (inside the ram) of the indexing rod. The part that connects the shell plate to the indexing star at the bottom of the press. My bolt was tight and locked in place. So I know it wasn't the bolt.

[ben b.]

I wonder if some of the problems may have been caused by using the wrong part, ie: using the pistol or rifle primer seater when the other one should have been used?

I'm unaware of a Hornady small rifle or large rifle seater stem. I thought there were only small and large primer seating stems.

ETA: Quote

Edited June 6, 2011 by ben b.

[lugnut]

I'm unaware of a Hornady small rifle or large rifle seater stem. I thought there were only small and large primer seating stems.

I don't think there are different ones either.

[98sr20ve]

There are only two primer punchs. Seating stems have nothing to do with this issue.

[SLM]

I'm unaware of a Hornady small rifle or large rifle seater stem. I thought there were only small and large primer seating stems.

Can't say for sure but I think that's what he meant, small primer or large primer seater, not small rifle / large rifle seater.

[roadapple]

I wonder if some of the problems may have been caused by using the wrong part, ie: using the pistol or rifle primer seater when the other one should have been used?

After about a half a dozen calls to Hornady I doubt people with a ongoing issues are missing something so basic. I know I wasn't. The more I think about it the more I am beginning to think it's some sort of flex (inside the ram) of the indexing rod. The part that connects the shell plate to the indexing star at the bottom of the press. My bolt was tight and locked in place. So I know it wasn't the bolt.

When I push the press handle forward to seat a primer, the whole shellplate flexes counter-clockwise. I spoke to a Hornady tech, and asked about the possibility of extended primer punches. He said he has never heard of such a thing. He did admit, however, that there has been more than a few complaints called in about high primers. I am almost convinced that for some people, flush is good enough, and therefore they do not have a problem. I am starting to take offense from people who insinuate that I do NOT have a primer seating problem. If the JB Weld holds, then I will be satisified, but I'll never buy another Hornady press. It's been way too much B.S., and way too much money for a product that I have to fix. Out of the 7 reloading presses I own (RCBS, Forster, Lee, Dillon, Hornady), the LnL is the only one that I have had high primer issues with. It should be a simple fix, and something that Hornady has worked out already.

98sr20ve, thanks for your help.

Edited June 6, 2011 by roadapple

[98sr20ve]

I wonder if some of the problems may have been caused by using the wrong part, ie: using the pistol or rifle primer seater when the other one should have been used?

After about a half a dozen calls to Hornady I doubt people with a ongoing issues are missing something so basic. I know I wasn't. The more I think about it the more I am beginning to think it's some sort of flex (inside the ram) of the indexing rod. The part that connects the shell plate to the indexing star at the bottom of the press. My bolt was tight and locked in place. So I know it wasn't the bolt.

When I push the press handle forward to seat a primer, the whole shellplate flexes counter-clockwise. I spoke to a Hornady tech, and asked about the possibility of extended primer punches. He said he has never heard of such a thing. He did admit, however, that there has been more than a few complaints called in about high primers. I am almost convinced that for some people, flush is good enough, and therefore they do not have a problem. I am starting to take offense from people who insinuate that I do NOT have a primer seating problem. If the JB Weld holds, then I will be satisified, but I'll never buy another Hornady press. It's been way too much B.S., and way too much money for a product that I have to fix. Out of the 7 reloading presses I own (RCBS, Forster, Lee, Dillon, Hornady), the LnL is the only one that I have had high primer issues with. It should be a simple fix, and something that Hornady has worked out already.

98sr20ve, thanks for your help.

I also am sick of people blaming me. I got pissed in another forum because of the same thing. Priming is not hard. Primer in the cup, push to prime. If you push so hard that the ram is flexing your pushing hard enough. It's either going to seat or not seat. Nothing else you can do about it. It's the presses fault.

The reason the shellplate is twisting couterclockwise is because the primer punch nut is bottomed out on the frame and the extra force has no place to go. The LnL press ram is hollow and actually very thin. If you add material to the punch you will probably want to clip some coils off the spring as if you increase the stroke of that small piece the spring will then start to coil bind. After that the spring under the Primer Tube Discharge Chute will start to coil bind. It will vary how it coil binds so its not going to behave the same every time.

Good Luck. I got sick of it all and just got the Dillon.

Edited June 6, 2011 by 98sr20ve

[roadapple]

I wonder if some of the problems may have been caused by using the wrong part, ie: using the pistol or rifle primer seater when the other one should have been used?

After about a half a dozen calls to Hornady I doubt people with a ongoing issues are missing something so basic. I know I wasn't. The more I think about it the more I am beginning to think it's some sort of flex (inside the ram) of the indexing rod. The part that connects the shell plate to the indexing star at the bottom of the press. My bolt was tight and locked in place. So I know it wasn't the bolt.

When I push the press handle forward to seat a primer, the whole shellplate flexes counter-clockwise. I spoke to a Hornady tech, and asked about the possibility of extended primer punches. He said he has never heard of such a thing. He did admit, however, that there has been more than a few complaints called in about high primers. I am almost convinced that for some people, flush is good enough, and therefore they do not have a problem. I am starting to take offense from people who insinuate that I do NOT have a primer seating problem. If the JB Weld holds, then I will be satisified, but I'll never buy another Hornady press. It's been way too much B.S., and way too much money for a product that I have to fix. Out of the 7 reloading presses I own (RCBS, Forster, Lee, Dillon, Hornady), the LnL is the only one that I have had high primer issues with. It should be a simple fix, and something that Hornady has worked out already.

98sr20ve, thanks for your help.

I also am sick of people blaming me. I got pissed in another forum because of the same thing. Priming is not hard. Primer in the cup, push to prime. If you push so hard that the ram is flexing your pushing hard enough. It's either going to seat or not seat. Nothing else you can do about it. It's the presses fault.

The reason the shellplate is twisting couterclockwise is because the primer punch nut is bottomed out on the frame and the extra force has no place to go. The LnL press ram is hollow and actually very thin. If you add material to the punch you will probably want to clip some coils off the spring as if you increase the stroke of that small piece the spring will then start to coil bind. After that the spring under the Primer Tube Discharge Chute will start to coil bind. It will vary how it coil binds so its not going to behave the same every time.

Good Luck. I got sick of it all and just got the Dillon.

98sr20ve,

You are correct about the flexing and coil binding. I did clip the spring to provide more room for the primer punch. I have a Dillon RL550B, but I have so much money tied-up in the Hornady press (casefeeder, plates, shellplates, micrometers, bushings, etc.) that I really need to make it work. I do not want to have to remove the case, after I prime it, and check for ill seated primers everytime. I guess it is going to take it quite a while to win my confidence. I reload a bunch on the Dillon, and I am considering a 1050 for .223 / 5.56mm NATO. Those AR's are hungry critters. I am also considering finding a machine shop that can just make the parts I need (longer primer punches, large and small). But, who knows? Maybe there is a 650 in my future.

Thanks

[BigBore56]

I had the LNL-AP and fought the priming for 2 months. Sold it all for $400. Bought the RCBS Pro which had it'w own problems. Sold it all for $450.

Just bought the Dillon XL650...went from RED...to GREEN...to BLUE! This press is designed like a progressive should be. Would have been money ahead to purchase the XL 650 from the start, and I would have a bunch of reloads that I could trust! HINDSIGHT!

[SLM]

Can somebody that has both a LNL and a 650 post close-up pictures of the priming system on both?