Hornady’s solution to my priming issues.

[98sr20ve]

Can somebody that has both a LNL and a 650 post close-up pictures of the priming system on both?

The both work on the same principal. Both have a punch that screws in some fashion to the bottom of the subplate. Here is a picture of the two. Dillon sitting on top of the sub plate of the LnL. LnL one is a lot smaller obviously.

Edited June 7, 2011 by 98sr20ve

[SLM]

Thanks! I was curious if there was some major difference between the Hornady and Dillon. Looks like the parts would almost interchange and they definitely work the same way.

[98sr20ve]

Yes, but the Dillon part is 4X the size and has a longer stroke for the punch. That is why it works. You can see that the Dillon laying on it's side is nearly as tall as the LnL parts entire length.

[DWFAN]

Anyone good enough with a lathe or other machine to make a longer plunger insert for the LnL ? Probably would be cost prohibitive unless you're just a hobbyist.

I dont have the light strike issues, but I run my revo's with higher weight triggers and my auto's set off anything. That being said, there is a definite difference between my seated primers, and a buddy's loaded on a 650.

I like the simplicity of the LnL.. but dealing with case misfeeds, and breaking cheaply cast parts is getting old. I'm hearing a 1050 calling my name for 9mm and 223 one of these days. I'll just run my low volume stuff on the LnL.

[SLM]

Wouldn't shortening the Hornady nut have the effect your after? Taking material off the bottom would effectively increase the length of the pin by allowing the ram to travel farther down and you could do it yourself with a file.

I was looking at mine last night and there's plenty of compression left on the return spring or whatever they call it on the spent primer tube before it coil binds.

Just a thought.

[DWFAN]

That is a good thought!

[98sr20ve]

Wouldn't shortening the Hornady nut have the effect your after? Taking material off the bottom would effectively increase the length of the pin by allowing the ram to travel farther down and you could do it yourself with a file.

I was looking at mine last night and there's plenty of compression left on the return spring or whatever they call it on the spent primer tube before it coil binds.

Just a thought.

That is what I was talking about before. The spring coil binds very early if you shorten the nut. After that the spring around the spent primer tube coil binds. Best thing to do is get right shellplate from Hornady. It raises the nut in the subplate. Get the shim for the frame. Keeps the spring under the primer tube from coil binding. Then maybe shorten the nut a little and remove a little from that spring. I never tried all those items at the same time.

[roadapple]

Anyone good enough with a lathe or other machine to make a longer plunger insert for the LnL ? Probably would be cost prohibitive unless you're just a hobbyist.

If you find someone that is good with a lathe, please let me know. I am willing to bet that there are more than a few people out there that would pay decent money for the longer plungers. I know I would. Maybe we can get a group order together, and make it worth the machinst's time.

[98sr20ve]

You guys are missing the point. With the improved subplate from Hornady the primer is nearly touching the bottom of the Shellplate. If you raise the punch any more the shellplate won't turn. It needs more stroke.

[roadapple]

You guys are missing the point. With the improved subplate from Hornady the primer is nearly touching the bottom of the Shellplate. If you raise the punch any more the shellplate won't turn. It needs more stroke.

I think you may have misunderstood me, or I was saying it wrong. It does, indeed, need more stroke. I was talking about making a new primer punch ram, with more material added to the bottom, and the spring reduced to give it more stroke.

[98sr20ve]

You guys are missing the point. With the improved subplate from Hornady the primer is nearly touching the bottom of the Shellplate. If you raise the punch any more the shellplate won't turn. It needs more stroke.

I think you may have misunderstood me, or I was saying it wrong. It does, indeed, need more stroke. I was talking about making a new primer punch ram, with more material added to the bottom, and the spring reduced to give it more stroke.

Yep, It needs to be longer on both sides. I might need some extra room on the frame to prevent it from being pushed up at rest.

The other side of the equation (after much thought and talking to another LnL interested in solving the issue) that maybe the parts inside the ram that hold the shellplate and control indexing are flexing. Wasting the energy being put into the primer with flex. I never took those parts out to look at what might improve them.

[lugnut]

Not to say what is right or wrong but I noticed something recently. I usually use Federal primers- they seem to seat well with the LNL. Winchester primers- not so much. The irony is that I can seat the Federal primers WELL below flush on good brass- Federal or Starline, without much effort. Win Large pistol primers aren't easy to seat in say Win brass.

[drysideshooter]

I'm unaware of a Hornady small rifle or large rifle seater stem. I thought there were only small and large primer seating stems.

Can't say for sure but I think that's what he meant, small primer or large primer seater, not small rifle / large rifle seater.

Yes, that's what I meant. Sounds like it's not the problem. I showed the setup to a machinist friend and he said making a new part would be no problem. He suggested making it a bit oversize and taking off material until it was right. The guy makes a lot of custom motorycle parts and stuff for aircraft so I have no reason to doubt that he's right.

[SLM]

I'm unaware of a Hornady small rifle or large rifle seater stem. I thought there were only small and large primer seating stems.

Can't say for sure but I think that's what he meant, small primer or large primer seater, not small rifle / large rifle seater.

Yes, that's what I meant. Sounds like it's not the problem. I showed the setup to a machinist friend and he said making a new part would be no problem. He suggested making it a bit oversize and taking off material until it was right. The guy makes a lot of custom motorycle parts and stuff for aircraft so I have no reason to doubt that he's right.

A little OT but if you work a deal with him for some longer "small" pins I'd be in to pick up a couple just for giggles.

[roadapple]

I'm unaware of a Hornady small rifle or large rifle seater stem. I thought there were only small and large primer seating stems.

Can't say for sure but I think that's what he meant, small primer or large primer seater, not small rifle / large rifle seater.

Yes, that's what I meant. Sounds like it's not the problem. I showed the setup to a machinist friend and he said making a new part would be no problem. He suggested making it a bit oversize and taking off material until it was right. The guy makes a lot of custom motorycle parts and stuff for aircraft so I have no reason to doubt that he's right.

Put me in for a couple of each, large and small. Just PM me with the cost, and where to send it. I'm on-board!

[drysideshooter]

I'm unaware of a Hornady small rifle or large rifle seater stem. I thought there were only small and large primer seating stems.

Can't say for sure but I think that's what he meant, small primer or large primer seater, not small rifle / large rifle seater.

Yes, that's what I meant. Sounds like it's not the problem. I showed the setup to a machinist friend and he said making a new part would be no problem. He suggested making it a bit oversize and taking off material until it was right. The guy makes a lot of custom motorycle parts and stuff for aircraft so I have no reason to doubt that he's right.

Put me in for a couple of each, large and small. Just PM me with the cost, and where to send it. I'm on-board!

I am going to order a couple of extras so that I can give them to him. When he has time maybe I can get him to make a few.

[drysideshooter]

I wonder if some of the problems may have been caused by using the wrong part, ie: using the pistol or rifle primer seater when the other one should have been used?

After about a half a dozen calls to Hornady I doubt people with a ongoing issues are missing something so basic. I know I wasn't. The more I think about it the more I am beginning to think it's some sort of flex (inside the ram) of the indexing rod. The part that connects the shell plate to the indexing star at the bottom of the press. My bolt was tight and locked in place. So I know it wasn't the bolt.

Sorry if you felt insulted. One of my closest friends is an attorney that specializes in medical malpractice. One of the most common causes that he sues a doctor is that a sponge gets left in during a surgery. Several people in the ER count all of the sponges before an operation, and they are all supposed to be accounted for prior to someone getting closed up. Yet, every year he has several cases where a sponge gets left inside someone. So even those that we can probably assume are among some of our brightest citizens can and do make mistakes, and in the case of a sponge getting left inside someone, more than one person has to make an error. Ask any surgeon about counting sponges, they'll probably tell you it's a really basic thing, and yet mistakes still happen.

[98sr20ve]

That's ok.

Dr's are horrible for that kind of stuff. Seen the study where they made a simple list for the Dr's

1) Wash hands

2) Check patient name

3) Check type of operation

4) Etc..

Mistakes were cut by 40% or some such thing. Dr's still fight it.

Be aware when you make the part that there are two types of subplates. The first has a recess around the primer punch and nut (from above). The primer punch is slightly below the surface of the subplate. So you have some extra room to raise the punch with out causing issues with interference. The second subplate has the primer punch and nut perfectly level with the top of the subplate. You can not make the top of the punch higher in this setup. I have pictures of both on my photobucket account. Links in previous posts if your interested. Since I don't have the press any longer I don't know how to make the bottom part longer. If you make it longer the punch will be partially activated at rest. There is just a lot going on in that area once you take a look at it.

[flyjets]

Interesting reading did you guys know that the federal primers use a softer alloy?

Did you know that 20+ year old CCI large pistol were slightly over-sized and won't feed?

I must have over 20K rounds of 380 to 500S&W with just minor tweaking required on the Hornady LNL. Sorry your having issues but glad you resolved them.

Ian

Edited June 28, 2011 by flyjets

[lll Otto lll]

I went through all of this too. In fact, I sent the press back to Hornady TWICE. Both times they declared that nothing was wrong...yeah, right.

Anyway, I found a work-around to the problem that enabled me to seat primers below flush 100% of the time. I simply uniformed all the primer pockets to the correct depth using a Sinclair carbide uniforming tool. The tool also squares up the bottom of the pockets. Yes, it's a hassle but you need to do it only once.

I concluded that some primers require a 'crush fit' to be seated flush. That's not the fault of the primer but rather the case's primer pocket which isn't deep enough. The problem with the LNL is that it doesn't have enough mechanical advantage to crush fit primers (at least mine doesn't). I assume that alot of other LNL users have the same problem but just haven't noticed it yet. The high primer issue is something Hornady should address and correct instead of denying it.

[Gatekeeper]

Just something to try to see if having a little more stroke on your priming plunger will help with high primers.

I got the idea for this somewhere, but I can't remember where it was posted exactly.

I would experience slightly high primers on occasion, especially reloading .223.

Took a spent small primer and used a pick to remove the old anvil and clean the inside of the cup. It fits perfectly on the end of the plunger and added the few extra thousandths of stroke I needed. Put a small drop of super glue in the cup and placed it on the bottom of the plunger.

No more high primers, they are either flush or slightly below the case head. I originally tried this to see if a longer plunger would eliminate the problem, never intended or expected it to last, but it has worked perfectly and hasn't moved or become loose on either the large and small primer plungers.

Probably have at least 10,000 loads and no high primers and the same primer cup is still fixed securely and going strong.

Would be great if Hornady would make them the right length, but in the meantime this free fix is working great for me.

Fuzzy pic i'm sorry

[roadapple]

Just something to try to see if having a little more stroke on your priming plunger will help with high primers.

I got the idea for this somewhere, but I can't remember where it was posted exactly.

I would experience slightly high primers on occasion, especially reloading .223.

Took a spent small primer and used a pick to remove the old anvil and clean the inside of the cup. It fits perfectly on the end of the plunger and added the few extra thousandths of stroke I needed. Put a small drop of super glue in the cup and placed it on the bottom of the plunger.

No more high primers, they are either flush or slightly below the case head. I originally tried this to see if a longer plunger would eliminate the problem, never intended or expected it to last, but it has worked perfectly and hasn't moved or become loose on either the large and small primer plungers.

Probably have at least 10,000 loads and no high primers and the same primer cup is still fixed securely and going strong.

Would be great if Hornady would make them the right length, but in the meantime this free fix is working great for me.

Fuzzy pic i'm sorry

I did this with a little JB Weld, and it seems to be working fine. I now have found that the LNL has real issues staying in time when I try to load .223. I managed to load ~ 400 9mm rounds, but it took some time. The powder measure bushing kept backing out , and the CAPD kept trying to come apart . I had to reset the PTX four times during this session, just to keep it belling the case mouth enough . I'm really starting tro believe my LNL AP was made by "most honorable, back-up factory" in the poorest province in China, by an un-skilled, under-paid worker; and inspected by his blind grandmother . I am loading everything on my Forster, and 550B now. I am buying more Caliber conversions, and toolheads for the 550. I am capable of a much faster through-put on the 550. I may purchase a 650 later, after the LNL sells. I will avoid Hornady's presses from now on. Oh, and for all of you that say Hornady's customer service is as good as Dillon's; Dillon would have had me send it back, and fixed the problem(s), or replaced the press by now. Hornady is still in the process of denying there is a problem, all while sending me every part they can think of. At this point, I would not trust them to fix it if I did send it back to them.

[mizer67]

Just something to try to see if having a little more stroke on your priming plunger will help with high primers.

I got the idea for this somewhere, but I can't remember where it was posted exactly.

I would experience slightly high primers on occasion, especially reloading .223.

Took a spent small primer and used a pick to remove the old anvil and clean the inside of the cup. It fits perfectly on the end of the plunger and added the few extra thousandths of stroke I needed. Put a small drop of super glue in the cup and placed it on the bottom of the plunger.

No more high primers, they are either flush or slightly below the case head. I originally tried this to see if a longer plunger would eliminate the problem, never intended or expected it to last, but it has worked perfectly and hasn't moved or become loose on either the large and small primer plungers.

Probably have at least 10,000 loads and no high primers and the same primer cup is still fixed securely and going strong.

Would be great if Hornady would make them the right length, but in the meantime this free fix is working great for me.

Fuzzy pic i'm sorry

I did this with a little JB Weld, and it seems to be working fine. I now have found that the LNL has real issues staying in time when I try to load .223. I managed to load ~ 400 9mm rounds, but it took some time. The powder measure bushing kept backing out , and the CAPD kept trying to come apart . I had to reset the PTX four times during this session, just to keep it belling the case mouth enough . I'm really starting tro believe my LNL AP was made by "most honorable, back-up factory" in the poorest province in China, by an un-skilled, under-paid worker; and inspected by his blind grandmother . I am loading everything on my Forster, and 550B now. I am buying more Caliber conversions, and toolheads for the 550. I am capable of a much faster through-put on the 550. I may purchase a 650 later, after the LNL sells. I will avoid Hornady's presses from now on. Oh, and for all of you that say Hornady's customer service is as good as Dillon's; Dillon would have had me send it back, and fixed the problem(s), or replaced the press by now. Hornady is still in the process of denying there is a problem, all while sending me every part they can think of. At this point, I would not trust them to fix it if I did send it back to them.

I've been having the same problem and it only took two phone calls for them to ask me to send it back, but I don't want to send mine in just yet and have been trying swapping parts. I've been talking to Gary mainly (don't know his last name), ask to speak to him. He told me they would take measurments and repair or replace my press.

They'll send you an extra rubber O-ring to solve the backing out problem of the bushing, but I don't have a fix for you for the other problems as I don't use a PTX or know what the CAPD is.

[ben b.]

They'll send you an extra rubber O-ring to solve the backing out problem of the bushing, but I don't have a fix for you for the other problems as I don't use a PTX or know what the CAPD is.

What they sent me, and others I've heard from, is a C-shaped shim made of spring steel that goes between the O-ring and the metal of the powder die, and completely fixes the backout from torque/pressue from the PTX. While all other dies lock in fine using finger pressure with the LnL bushings, the powder die needs to be tightened in place with wrench or channel-locks.

I also don't know what the CAPD is. Central Auditory Processing Disorder?

[roadapple]

They'll send you an extra rubber O-ring to solve the backing out problem of the bushing, but I don't have a fix for you for the other problems as I don't use a PTX or know what the CAPD is.

What they sent me, and others I've heard from, is a C-shaped shim made of spring steel that goes between the O-ring and the metal of the powder die, and completely fixes the backout from torque/pressue from the PTX. While all other dies lock in fine using finger pressure with the LnL bushings, the powder die needs to be tightened in place with wrench or channel-locks.

I also don't know what the CAPD is. Central Auditory Processing Disorder?

CAPD = Case Activated Powder Drop. It is the mess of stamped steel linkage that moves when the powder measure rotor turns to drop a load of powder.