.45 gap ...... in S&W 625 ...!?!

[ffl]

forum user CliffWalsh used them in the 625 that he blew up. He will fill you in on the loading and such

Good luck

[Tom E]

The extractor cut is different. MoonClips for .45acp don't fit so well.

[Carlos]

That is what I found. GAP is not the answer. If you want shorter cases, then trim down some .45 ACP cases - BUT WATCH OUT FOR PRESSURE. Reduced OAL WILL raise pressure.

The extractor cut is different. MoonClips for .45acp don't fit so well.

[Greg Q]

Hearthco makes moon clips for the 45 GAP. Best there is.

I have used Clays in the past with good results. Pressure is a little high, ask Cliff.

I am now using 3.6 gr of N310 with a Zero 230 FMJ. This load looks and sound like minor. Makes 169PF in my 5 1/4" 625. I get "that look" everytime I shoot a match from someone there.

Start lower and work your way up.

Where is Carmoney when I need a legal disclaimer?

Greg

Edited February 5, 2009 by Greg Q

[pskys2]

Actually 45 gap brass will work with "Good" Moon Clips, kind of.

The more you use the brass the looser it gets. Some clips work pretty good and some don't. I found about 10-20% would be loose enough I didn't want to trust them at the LPR Nats this year. But 45 moon clips are so cheap that you can sort thru and still save money. My test was when I loaded the rounds into the clips I couldn't easily pull them out. If 1 round did I threw the clip into the ACP only pile. I use a North Mountain Moon Clip Carrier and haven't had one fall apart yet. I actually seem to lose more due to them being stepped on and bent though.

I used Starline Brass.

The problem with ACP brass cut down is the case is thicker at the base, so the load data doesn't transfer easily. Cliff has done both and can speak to this better.

[D.carden]

I tried that for awhile (still have about 2500 loaded rnds). There's nothing to gain here. You might save pennies on powder, but in terms of moon-reloads, there wont be a gain on time if thats what your purpose is.......Once you drop/let go of the clip the amount of time it takes to close the cylinder wont make a difference on cartridge length..............I've tried it all.!!!!!!!

[Bwana Six-Gun]

PM Cliff for the straight skinny on 45 GAP, he is the GURU! And silver bullets too!

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I have been playing with GAP and use Moonclips of Sweden clips for the GAP brass. I also got my load from Whizz

As follows:

brass: .45 GAP Starline

primer: Federal small pistol

powder: Vihtavuori N320

bullet: Archipelago 225 grs. .4505 Copper plated Re-Strike.

the load is: 4.40 grains Vihtavuori N320

COL: 28.40 mm 1.118 inch

should give about 175 PF in a 625, 5".

Now, I use a 230gr Montana Gold JHP because that is what I had and I am at 4.5gr of the VV N320 with the same OAL and making 170PF with good accuracy.

Only reason I like the load is the accuracy and the soft feel in both my 4" 625 and my 6.5" 1955 Target

Is it worth while to invest? No it is not, I got a good deal on the brass.

[bigsaxdog]

yeah, cliff's a guru alright....bagwan rajneesh al conquistadoro......he's got the turban hat and everything.......he just meditates over his stuff, and it doesn't blow up....mostly....

[Flexmoney]

Moderating note:

I merged 3 threads on GAP here in the Revolver section.

There are others: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...highlite=%2Bgap

I found them by going to the search page and putting "gap" in the search field...choose to search in the "Revolver" section...and choose to do a "title" search.

[atlscrog]

All,

First off, thank you for the great information on the forums.

That said, I have read all the threads I can find on 45 GAP and still have a few questions for those with more experience. I recently switched from shooting Single Stack to revolvers. I am interested in .45 GAP because I have more small primers than I do large primers. On to the questions...

The first question is about crimping: I'm using 45 ACP Dillon dies on a 550 and can't get enough crimp to stop bullet pull. The die bottoms out on the shell plate so the max crimp I can get is about .468 -ish... not enough to stop bullet pull at less than major loads. I'm loading 200 Precision's with Speer brass.

My question about crimping is: How do you crimp your rounds and will a crimp loose enough to allow bullet pull lower the FPS and/or cause unburned powder?

My second topic is about working up a load.

To date I have chrono'd eight loads using a 200 grain Precision RN with Speer brass.

........................WIN....................CCI

...................Small Pistol..........Small Rifle

WSF 5..............612......................640

WSF 5.5...........677......................656

n340 5.4..........592......................641

n340 5.9..........699......................739

All of these loads had a LOT of unburned powder, but no signs of pressure.

I also chrono'd my .45 ACP load, which is 230 grain Zero FMJ over 6.2 grains of WSF with Federal large pistol primer at: 747 fps. This load chrono's almost the same out of my Kimber.

I have two questions here: Why so much unburned powder and does anyone have a .45 GAP load for 200 grain Precision bullets?

Thanks again,

Scott

[Tom E]

........................WIN....................CCI

...................Small Pistol..........Small Rifle

WSF 5..............612......................640

WSF 5.5...........677......................656

n340 5.4..........592......................641

n340 5.9..........699......................739

All of these loads had a LOT of unburned powder, but no signs of pressure.

I have two questions here: Why so much unburned powder and does anyone have a .45 GAP load for 200 grain Precision bullets?

Thanks again,

Scott

Both powders are too slow for minor power factor loads.

[atlscrog]

Both powders are too slow for minor power factor loads.

Thank you for the information. Today I tried WSF with a little more powder. The result was much less unburned powder, but quite a bit of lead.

So I'm still looking for a .45 GAP load for 200 grain Precision's RNFP.

Scott

[Tom E]

Today I tried WSF with a little more powder. The result was much less unburned powder, but quite a bit of lead.

So I'm still looking for a .45 GAP load for 200 grain Precision's RNFP.

Scott

You shouldn't get any leading with Precision's bullets. You've got someting wrong, like not flaring the case mouth enough and scraping off the coating or cutting the coating with your crimp.

[sargenv]

There was a shooter at the Golden Bullet that was shooting 45 gap brass in a 625.. He did pretty well.. we tied on stage wins.. I beat him by a higher hit factor overall. He seemed to do well reload wise. I think a tad shorter brass can work if you load that way. Whether it makes up any kind of appreciable difference or not is kind of up to you. I shoot 40's in my 610 with RIMZ moons, the next guy might like Hearthco's moons. It all comes down to what you want to do. Now if you load other calibers with small pistol and you want to only stock one kind of primer, I really see no problem coming up with the solution of using thr 45 gap since it too utilizes the small pistol primer. In that case, I'm all for simplicity.

[pskys2]

Definitely use a Roll Crimp. I'm using one for .45 Auto Rim from Lee and it works much better than a taper.

Some have reported crimping too hard and causing seperation of the plating/lead of plated bullets, I think they were using very heavy Taper Crimps.

I used Clays at the '08 LPR with a 230 Ranier with 3.7 Clays. I still don't know the cause but had some very strange ignition problems.

If I remember Cliff tried a 230 LRN with Clays in the GAP and lost a 625. So BE WARY!

I've since switched to 4.1 Titegroup with the same bullet. Would like to find something better though.

You might try some of the Vituhori Powders.

I've noticed a Moly buildup just past the throat when using Precision Bullets, but the FN portion is what keeps me from using them anymore. I'm actually trying just regular LRN bullets at this time. Cheaper and a bit less recoil, smoky yes.

[sensei]

I use 45GAP the last 3 years, Conny Forsberg, from Sweden, make the best clips i ever owned.

For 230 grs. i usually use N320 x 4.40 grs. .... perfect.

If i want to make Minor loads (200 grs.) i prefer N310

N320 and N310 works very well for me, clean, accurates, no-unburned powder .... i like it

[Tom E]

I've noticed a Moly buildup just past the throat when using Precision Bullets,

I shoot Precision's bullets and have noticed the same thing. It doesn't buid up and cleans right out and comes right back and seems to make no difference. I ignore it.

[Gregg K]

I've noticed a Moly buildup just past the throat when using Precision Bullets,

I shoot Precision's bullets and have noticed the same thing. It doesn't buid up and cleans right out and comes right back and seems to make no difference. I ignore it.

I'm not clear on which powder you were using with the Precision bullets but David has some warnings about some powders not to use with his bullets and Titegroup is one that he warns against, it is hot enough that it melts the coating.

[Tom E]

I've noticed a Moly buildup just past the throat when using Precision Bullets,

I shoot Precision's bullets and have noticed the same thing. It doesn't buid up and cleans right out and comes right back and seems to make no difference. I ignore it.

I'm not clear on which powder you were using with the Precision bullets but David has some warnings about some powders not to use with his bullets and Titegroup is one that he warns against, it is hot enough that it melts the coating.

I use WST, Solo 1000 and AA #9. Doesn't seem to be melted on and doesn't build up. My 627 that has been fed jacketed hollow points for pins lately doesn't really look much different. Seems to be a non-issue.

[atlscrog]

Thanks for all the responses. I tried all of the powders mentioned above with the Precision's. WST was the best experience.

BTW, +1 to David of Precision for taking the time to respond to email with solid recommendations. He (along with others on this thread) pointed out that a barrel with even the slightest amount of lead build-up would lead more, and most likely strip the coating off.

I'm settling on 5.2 grains of WST under the Precision 200 RNFP for the GAP load. This chrono'd just around 850.

I will try some Clays if I ever get some.

Scott

[pskys2]

Thanks for all the responses. I tried all of the powders mentioned above with the Precision's. WST was the best experience.

BTW, +1 to David of Precision for taking the time to respond to email with solid recommendations. He (along with others on this thread) pointed out that a barrel with even the slightest amount of lead build-up would lead more, and most likely strip the coating off.

I'm settling on 5.2 grains of WST under the Precision 200 RNFP for the GAP load. This chrono'd just around 850.

I will try some Clays if I ever get some.

Scott

Watch WST for inverse Temperature Sensitivity, in an ACP it loses velocity as the temparatures get hotter.

[Tom E]

Thanks for all the responses. I tried all of the powders mentioned above with the Precision's. WST was the best experience.

I'm settling on 5.2 grains of WST under the Precision 200 RNFP for the GAP load. This chrono'd just around 850.

Scott

5.2 gr WST is what it took for me to make major in 45acp brass. 200gr Precision RNF, 1.200 oal, Fed 150. Had enough muzzle blast to blow the pasters off the targets at 4 feet. 5" 625.

Watch WST for inverse Temperature Sensitivity, in an ACP it loses velocity as the temparatures get hotter.

Yes it does and not just in 45acp loads.

[20nickels]

5.2 gr WST is what it took for me to make major in 45acp brass. 200gr Precision RNF, 1.200 oal, Fed 150. Had enough muzzle blast to blow the pasters off the targets at 4 feet. 5" 625.

That's the exact load I was using with WST last year. It kept the pasters very busy. I blasted the head clean off of one target and tore out the A's on a couple more at close range. They now put me last for some reason...

[cliffwalsh]

Thanks for all the responses. I tried all of the powders mentioned above with the Precision's. WST was the best experience.

BTW, +1 to David of Precision for taking the time to respond to email with solid recommendations. He (along with others on this thread) pointed out that a barrel with even the slightest amount of lead build-up would lead more, and most likely strip the coating off.

I'm settling on 5.2 grains of WST under the Precision 200 RNFP for the GAP load. This chrono'd just around 850.

I will try some Clays if I ever get some.

Scott

I put a powder order in with Powder Valley that included Clays. It was out of stock but I had it at my door in about 3 weeks.