AR Trigger Pole...I mean Poll

[bagdrag]

JP all the way.

Care to enhance the comment on some technical details on why you chose JP? Also have you compared it to any of the other triggers listed in the poll? Thanks.

[Jesse Tischauser]

They sponsor the big matches, they build the best rifles, and the top shooters use them. Why would I try anything else? I have 3 of them soon to be 4 and I can't imagine anything better.

[bagdrag]

They sponsor the big matches, they build the best rifles, and the top shooters use them. Why would I try anything else? I have 3 of them soon to be 4 and I can't imagine anything better.

Thanks for your addition to the thread. Their sponsorship is a factor in my selection process but I want this thread to go beyond the factors you have mentioned. Too many other threads have had comments similar to yours and nothing against JP, but I just want people to chime in on their experiences with other triggers and hopefully have some informative comparisons. They do make some of the best rifles and I haven't been anything but happy with my JP upper. Honestly, I am leaning heavily towards JP because they're not only top notch but way and above most in bang for the buck.

Btw, can you make any comparisons with the JP and other triggers you've had experience with (not just AR triggers)?

[Jesse Tischauser]

It's 1000x better than my 3.5 lb Glock triggers and almost as good as my 1911 trigger.

[bagdrag]

I just got one of these and love it

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Tactical-Trigger-Unit-3-Gun-Semi-Auto/productinfo/TR-TTU-3G

Just saw this trigger mentioned in another thread. Anyone who voted other or will vote other use this trigger? Reminds me of an AR Gold but a more positive reset. Short trigger pull and reset.

Edited March 31, 2011 by bagdrag

[P.E. Kelley]

Pretty sizable lead for lead for JP so far, but the Chip McCormick voters (TLD, lynn jones, Bear1142, outerlimits, P.E. Kelley, raz-0) are an interesting group. Any reason why you all picked the Chip over any others you may have tried?

I don't even own a ChipMcTrigger so I musta clicked the wrong one

I am a JP trigger fan.

Patrick

[calishootr]

for my 3-gun rifle its got an older adjustable JP in it, but in recent months ive played with, and liked the Jard series of triggers, both adjustable and non, the non is literally a drop in/plug an play, and last month i put in an ajustable Jard in what is my varmint gun, and WOW...really nice, takes a bit of work to get it 'right' but man is it light and crisp, handed it to a friend, who is pretty finicky about his triggers and he was impressed, one drawback, is that depending on your particular frame, you might have to tap the hole for the grip screw all the way thru(if it isnt already, mine wasnt)

[Wakal]

I'm mostly worthless as a shooter (and only marginal as a human being), but here is my opinion of a few of the triggers I build up regularly.

1. Standard trigger parts, re-faced/honed/polished, with a set screw run under the pistol grip up into the receiver to take out as much pre-travel and reset as possible within the limitations of the hardware. Cheap, takes less than five minutes, gives a medium-heavy trigger good enough for plinking and cheap enough that even GI's can afford. Not my first choice for competition, but functional.

2. JP adjustable trigger. With a bit milled off the trigger tail to properly clear the safety when configured correctly, pre and overtravel set, light springs...simple, repeatable, solid trigger. I like these a lot, although every once in a while they come in over-hardened and go to live under the mill in pieces. For myself, I like to use the heavier springs to ensure ignition with the military ammo I use in practice. I consider these to be the "gold standard" of triggers; they have been around a long time, everyone knows them, and they seem to be the benchmark by which all others are measured. Cheap, too!

3. Jard. Feels great when properly set up, but they are a *&&*%$^& to build. I've seen a few of them "go away" and either become non-functional or...too...functional...if any of the five million set screws reset themselves. I don't trust them, but that is just me.

4. Timmney. Their drop-in unit is pretty sporty looking, expecially with the "lightened" trigger. Clean pull, nice reset, reliable, easy to install.

5. Wilson drop-in. Solid unit, feels ok, kind of pricy. Nothing wrong with it, but other triggers do the same thing cheaper. Someone told me once that Wilson only makes two things, little blue bags and money

6. McTriggers. I like the flat single-stage, although the new flat two-stage units (as seen at this year's SHOT show) were very interesting...the new housing is very solid, as opposed to the sheet metal of the current versions. The pull is heavier than the Gold or the Timney, but the reset is crisp and they work every time. I like these a lot.

7. AR Gold. Nice pull weight, great reset distance, horrible reset weight. I hate waiting for the trigger to push forward when I get my booger hook off the bang switch, and the Golds feel like I'm...waiting... Darst's and Jerry's have a heavier reset, but the folks at PACT gave me platitudes instead of service when I asked them about triggers set up the same way instead of...soft. Expensive, and not to my taste as-issued. I'll take a couple apart eventually and see what I can do to fix it (James did give me some tips), but they should be right immediately instead of only as a custom build for their sponsored shooters.

Geissele. I have a two-stange in a REPR, and when I remember it is a two-stage it is great (that is all me, though). The Super 3Gun Trigger (the flat single stage one) is awesome. Acceptable weight, clean break, solid short snappy reset...my favorite in the high-end triggers!

Alex

[bagdrag]

Wow Alex, pretty much answered my curiosities. A big THANK YOU. One last question. Can you elaborate on a comparison between the Wilson TTU (3-gun or Single Stage model preferably) and the Geissele S3G?

Edited March 31, 2011 by bagdrag

[Hannu]

My choice today; AR Gold. I can shoot 0.09 - 0.10 splits with it, so if you have to wait I would say you have darn fast finger

Factory setting is pretty "conservative" and you have to tweak adjustments to make it really nice. Best thing is, you can make it nice without bending springs, polishing something etc

Have been using almost all of those listed. Just can not live with non-adjustable triggers... They have never felt good.

Jard has my second "shared first place" choice. 1.5 lbs 1-stage adjustable has nice weight and feel when set up right.

JP feels like #¤%¤" when adjusted according to factory instructions I have never been able to set it up as light as I like. It can be set up for good feeling, but then you have to remember to change disconnector - otherwise you are gonna have bursts at some point.

Geissele, so far what i have tested have heavy pre-travel and very light break point. If I shoot with 2-stage trigger, I want it to be just the opposite: light pre-travel and heavy break point - just like good 1911 trigger or AR Gold.

Generally I would say, if you do not know how to set up a trigger, then do not do it Leave it to somebody how knows what he is doing.

[BlueOvalBruin]

My choice today; AR Gold. I can shoot 0.09 - 0.10 splits with it, so if you have to wait I would say you have darn fast finger

Factory setting is pretty "conservative" and you have to tweak adjustments to make it really nice. Best thing is, you can make it nice without bending springs, polishing something etc

Have been using almost all of those listed. Just can not live with non-adjustable triggers... They have never felt good.

Jard has my second "shared first place" choice. 1.5 lbs 1-stage adjustable has nice weight and feel when set up right.

JP feels like #¤%¤" when adjusted according to factory instructions I have never been able to set it up as light as I like. It can be set up for good feeling, but then you have to remember to change disconnector - otherwise you are gonna have bursts at some point.

Geissele, so far what i have tested have heavy pre-travel and very light break point. If I shoot with 2-stage trigger, I want it to be just the opposite: light pre-travel and heavy break point - just like good 1911 trigger or AR Gold.

Generally I would say, if you do not know how to set up a trigger, then do not do it Leave it to somebody how knows what he is doing.

What things would you recommend a fellow AR Gold owner try on his trigger to make it nicer? I have one as well and think it's a great trigger in its factory configuration, but am very interested in learning how to improve it.

[Hannu]

What things would you recommend a fellow AR Gold owner try on his trigger to make it nicer? I have one as well and think it's a great trigger in its factory configuration, but am very interested in learning how to improve it.

First, take trigger out if it is in your gun. Go to local Fastenal or something similar place (local Fastenal had these in stock) and buy small set screw for overtravel adjustment. Sorry I can not remember the size anymore

Trigger group still in your hand, take 1/16" key and adjust sear engagement. Find "hammer fall point" first; hold trigger group with your other hand while simultaneously use that 1/16" key and turn lower adjustment screw clockwise. Make sure you point hammer to safe direction and do not let it drop free, shoot the hammer againts (for example) wooden reloading table like I do

Turn the key slowly so you can determine hammer fall point accurately. After you know your hammer fall point, turn that screw 1/8 turns anti-clockwise.

Then install overtravel screw. Clean threads (for example brake cleaner spray works) and put some red or green locktite to the threads, to make sure adjustment will not move. Adjust overtravel so, when you pull trigger to rear and simultaneously pull hammer back, you see just a little bit light between hammer and sear engagement points. How much is hard to say without seeing the trigger group, but you must have a small gap there.

Adjust pull weight with upper screw to your favourite level and last check that the safety is still working.

My AR-15 rifles (tested that setup in 4 different rifles) have been working with these settings and 1.6 lbs pull weight perfectly. Before shooting, dry fire, slam empty bolt forwards etc. to make sure your rifle works safely.

To make it clear, I do not personally use AR Gold or any other US trigger.

Some of our Finnish and US friends have already seen my favourite; slightly unusual prototypes, but more of that maybe later

[ShooterSteve]

I have two JPs and 1 Jard. I like the JPs better, but, I ordered the AGI video on doing AR triggers, and after watching it several times to get it down, I now do my own, and they are smoother and a little lighter than the JP. It is not rocket science once you understand the mechanics behind it. I like tinkering with stuff anyway. I got a set of stones and jig for Christmas, so I love doing them. I have been advised by several people to just do my own due to liability reasons and that makes sense, but I would recommend that people take a look at the video, even if you never plan to do your own. You will learn a lot. One thing said about learning, I have a 308 from Iron Ridge, and it had a "trigger job" done at the factory. What a hack job. If you pinned the trigger after a shot, and let the trigger reset very carefully, the hammer would drop, and the gun would fire! The top corner of the sear had been rounded off, and the hammer notch had been opened up past 90 degrees! Also the notch is not cut square across the hammer, so only one little corner is holding the sear! Ever drop a round sear into a 110 degree notch? It don't work too good! I'm sorry, but the lower is a nice lower, but who ever they had (or have) doing triggers does NOT know what they are doing with hammer and sear geometry, and may end up getting someone hurt!

[Remington4Life]

wow, great info. Trigger is next, this made me think twice about my options

[RH45]

I've tried RRA and Chip McCormicks, and they never impressed me.

I have 3 rifles with JP triggers in them, and one with an older Jard, with all the setscrews. The Jard is lighter, and crisper, than the JPs, but, I didn't follow the installation instructions which clearly state to use RED locktite on the set screws. I used blue, and over the years, have had them come out of adjustment, which has made the gun not fire, and run bursts.

[bagdrag]

The new Giesselle(pronounced Guy-Zlee) Super 3 Gun trigger is pretty awesome and uber reliable.The NST has been trying them out for a while now. I believe they are almost available for sale.

It is a single stage with a slightly different break than most are used to in single stage triggers. Reset is very short and the break just sort of rolls like its on bearings. As you apply pressure you feel a sort of creep that is so smooth it feels like it rolls on ball bearings. Then BANG! No screws to adjust. Break is adjusted with the trigger spring. Mine is 2# on the nose. I love it. Its the best trigger I have ever shot. I literally have shot them all and still own most of those. And it has the fastest lock time of any AR trigger on the market.

Its truly gonna be a hot setup. Reset is not as short as the AR Gold or some JP's but its ten times more positive and only has just a slightly longer reset. The hammer spring is the strongest I have ever felt. the hammer will bruise your thumb if you use your thumb to break the drop.

I just read this review by Tod Litt in another thread. Looked interesting to me because I thought I remember him having extensive use of the AR Gold in competition. Sounds like he has a lot of time behind a JP also. From this and another of his posts on the topic, he was a real big fan of the Geissele Super 3-Gun's reset. He said it was Glock-like positive. I wonder if he'd care to add anything in this thread. This fascinates me because I really only have two handgun triggers I've enjoyed, the 1911 and the Glock (modified w/ Glockworx and Lightning Strikes parts). Both of them, I am very used to and have had a lot of time behind. Let me know if I'm crazy, but it sounds kind of neat for my ARs to simulate the two triggers I'm most used to in competition. A bolt gun trigger (JP?) in an AR sounds super accurate, but I don't put that much trigger time in my bolt gun. Geissele is back in the running.

Finally got the Geissele S3G to compare with my AR Gold. First of all it is a "single" stage but not in the traditional sense of the term. The "single" stage of the Geissele S3G is a somewhat long even weight pull until the trigger breaks. I compare it more to a short travel DA revolver with very light pull weight. I guess you could say it rolls on bearings but to me it feels like 2 highly polished surfaces are sliding against each other (I guess I've never experienced perfectly smooth bearings). As noted the reset is short but not as short as the JP or AR Gold. It has a very positive reset that is similar to a Mil-spec trigger reset feel (finally tried a friend's Mil-spec trigger to compare).

In contrast, the AR Gold is very similar to a tuned 1911 trigger. The pull is not mirror polished smooth but still very even and consistent. Reset is very short but you don't get as positive a push as with the Geissele. Lastly, the AR Gold is a two-stage trigger. The first stage is so light as to almost be practically imperceptible but it is there. The second stage accounts for most of the trigger pull weight and this is the most perceptible part of the trigger pull.

At its current setup, the Geissele pull weight seems heavier than the AR Gold. On paper they are nearly the same so the perceptive difference may be due to the longer pull of the Geissele. Also while the Geissele can feel smoother than the AR Gold, overcoming the initial static friction of the trigger parts takes more force than the force necessary to complete the trigger pull. What I end up experiencing is that if I carefully pull the trigger, I perceive an almost two-stage pull. If apply exactly the amount of force needed to break the trigger, it feels like the longer single stage I described earlier. So while the AR Gold may not feel as super polished smooth, the evenness of the second stage feels more predictable and consistent. For close up shots, the Geissele may be great because of the reduced need for fine motor precision but the AR Gold seems like it might be better for long shots.

As for the reset, others may have a strong preference for the Geissele but I've gotten accustomed to the AR Gold and the reset is perceptible enough to me.

I'll definitely need more trigger time with the Geissele, but this is my initial reaction to the trigger so far. Hope this was useful even if you disagree.

ETA: Right now I don't see how the S3G is clearly superior to the Gold other than personal preference.

Edited July 9, 2011 by bagdrag

[1chota]

Just got a Nordic Comp NC22 and my JP-15 upper is looking to get another lower to play with. Want to know what people are using and why? It would really be helpful if you indicate if you own or have owned more than one of the above triggers and why you selected the one you use for 3-gun. I've got an AR Gold right now and just want to feel for what else might be out there. The JP for $499 as a complete lower is a fantastic bargain but the Geissele S3G's rolling trigger sounds interesting.

Thanks for the help. Please don't just say JP, they support our sport. I'm already giving them bonus points for that as well as their hard to beat price.

i use a JP EZ. fantastic trigger.

[BHE]

Wilson Combat TTU-3G 3-Gun Trigger!!!! For me it is the best. Took out 2 JP triggers and installed the Wilson Combats after shooting a rifle with one. It is a bullet-proof unit.

[jid2]

Just started into this AR building frenzy - went into Rainier Arms this morning to buy some parts and was able to try a few triggers out. My main focus was between the Wilson Combat 3 Gun and the Geissele 3 Gun.

The Wilson is very smooth and you can feel the trigger moving under steady pressure and then it softly breaks - it's not uber crisp. But the overall feels was nice and for long shots with a slow pull I think the soft break would be nice.

The Geissele was also very smooth but with a crisp break. It wanted to be pulled with a faster, deliberate effort - the Wilson was OK with a slow hesitant pull.

In the end I was on a budget and couldn't justify the added cost of the Wilson, and with some practice I liked the crisp break of the Geissele. In the end it's nice to be able to try this stuff out - Rainier Arms FTW.

[Red_SC]

I've been shooting a JP trigger, but I've just gotten a rifle with a Wilson TTU, I like it a lot.

[cmoorhead]

Voted other - using a single stage Wilson TTU....it's 3lbs 9oz every time, crisp with no creep, no over travel, audible and tactile reset.

....Chris

[openclassterror]

I use a Jard on my open rifle, my son uses a JP. I install probably 30+ AR triggers a year and for the VAST majority I recommend JPs. They are reasonably priced, easy to set, and easy to maintain. I personally like the Jard slightly better, but it requires readjustment from time to time to keep it at the very limit of sweetness. If you fully understand how it works and are willing to maintain it, great. If you like to shoot but not tinker, have the JP set up by someone who knows how, and shoot it. For a loooong time. The Gold and McTrig are nice, but if you have several rifles to run, it gets expensive. I would rather have the EXACT same 'good" trigger in all my rifles than re-adjust from one "nice" trigger to other "not-so-nice" triggers every time I switch rifles, because I could only afford one trigger. IMO.

[Jesse Tischauser]

They sponsor the big matches, they build the best rifles, and the top shooters use them. Why would I try anything else? I have 3 of them soon to be 4 and I can't imagine anything better.

It's 1000x better than my 3.5 lb Glock triggers and almost as good as my 1911 trigger.

Funny once I tried the AR Gold I made the switch. My AR Gold triggers are actually better than my 1911 triggers.

[P.E. Kelley]

CMC's have been working for me for years. Lots of triggers work very well...some guys like to have (the best$$$)

I just want mine to work the same way every time, give me the control for the long shots and the speed I need

for the in your face shots. Ignite 308 Military primers and run a 22 conversion and if if can drop in for $160 bucks, I am all over it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjmEezdfN94&feature=share&list=UUP2a8nE0aB3-5Za-KOVsOHg

[Steve RA]

I've got a McCormick "flat" and like it quite well, feels just like a 1911 trigger and the price is reasonable.