Problem with 9mm

[Bwana Six-Gun]

I've been re-loading for many years, but always for .38/.357,.45 and rifle. This year my daughter decided to get back into shooting and is using a Glock 34. I have some Dillon dies and am using a 450 converted to 550. The problem is, when I re-size and prime the 9mm cases, they will drop into a Dillon case guage with no problem. Once I drop powder and seat and crimp the bullet (115 gr. RN from Black Bullets Intl.) the final product sticks out of the guage about 1/8". This causes the occasional jam when she is shooting. She has always managed to work through it without panic, but I feel like I am letting her down and costing her points and time. Any ideas to correct this? The dies are set to go all the way down to the shell plate and I am using a factory round to set the crimp and bullet seating depth.

[Bubber]

I've been re-loading for many years, but always for .38/.357,.45 and rifle. This year my daughter decided to get back into shooting and is using a Glock 34. I have some Dillon dies and am using a 450 converted to 550. The problem is, when I re-size and prime the 9mm cases, they will drop into a Dillon case guage with no problem. Once I drop powder and seat and crimp the bullet (115 gr. RN from Black Bullets Intl.) the final product sticks out of the guage about 1/8". This causes the occasional jam when she is shooting. She has always managed to work through it without panic, but I feel like I am letting her down and costing her points and time. Any ideas to correct this? The dies are set to go all the way down to the shell plate and I am using a factory round to set the crimp and bullet seating depth.

Bwana, Does the case fit after resizing, then after the porcess is complete it does not? If this is the case I would check the seating die to ensure the die is not setto deep and going into a roll crimp causing it to buldge along the case some where. Then check the taper crimp station. If it does not fit after resizing look for the Glock buldge. Just a thought not many of those happening for me nowadays. Hope this is helpful. later rdd

Edited February 10, 2011 by Bubber

[The_Vigilante]

Sounds like your COL/OAL is a little bit too long. Just because you used factory ammo to set the seating depth doesn't mean it is the right OAL for your daughter's Glock 34. The BBI bullet may have a different profile/ogive or length. You don't indicate which OAL you are using-use a caliper to measure the length of the entire cartridge from base to tip of bullet. Use the barrel of your Glock 34 as the case gauge until you get the right OAL for your barrel. The finished product should drop into the barrel freely and turn in either direction freely.

[al503]

Check the diameter of the bullet. I haven't loaded their 115's but I have to load their 130's short because of the diameter/profile.

[Flatland Shooter]

Can you tell us what kind of jams? Is it the same thing every time?

If the rounds are longer than the case gauge, sounds like they might be too long. My case gauge is not Dillon, but if the round stick out the end of my gage, the OAL is about 1.172". A little long for most Glock magazines.

Bill

[CocoBolo]

Bawana - The obvious thing is since it does not go all the way in the drop check Why Not? If the bullet is hitting then its too long. Push on it a little then when you pull it out look for marks on the bullet. If it is the case then thats another issue like roll crimp or too much crimp. (since you said deprimed and sized it dropped in).

With out knowing what kind of jam she is having its hard to diagnose. But if it is a failure to go into battery then it is an OAL issue, since she is able to clear it a bulged case ain't easy in a 9 mm to get out. Try drop checking some in the barrel to see it the bullet is hitting.

I feel you pain I loaded about everything then 9's and they have given me more issues than any other straight wall pistol cartridge. I run all my 9 mm brass thur a case pro. And very important some brass isn't brass it is brass washed steel and those can cause a jack hammer jam, yeah loaded to 9 major they are difficult to get out of the gun, I use a big magnet to check and it sucks them right out of the media seperator. I'm so paranoid I also run the magent in the case feeder and then over the dillon bullet cases.

[mlm]

Had a similiar problem with 9mm and found that Lee makes a carbide sizing die (part# 90548). Call them and tell them what is happening and then order the die. It will full lenght size the case. The Dillion die will not.

Mike Merkler

[njl]

I've loaded some of BBI's 130gr, and have similar issues with the gauge, but Glock chambers are so loose, my Glocks have no trouble shooting them. Is that G34 using the factory barrel or some aftermarket "match" barrel? I did have to load a little shorter than I'd first attempted. You should check to make sure your OAL isn't too long and the bullets are hitting the rifling. BBI bullets are the widest 9mm's I've seen.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Had the same problem working with 158gr in my 9MM my problem was insufficient crimp. I use the belt and suspender method reloading 9MM. I use the EGW die to remove the glock bulge and a Lee factory crimp die on the last stage to make sure.

Rather than using the Dillon gauge, try using the barrel as your drop in gauge. As was explained to me, it is the final step

[kreativecid]

As stated, pull the barrel out and plunk a dummy round in to see if it "fits." I recently had issues when going from BBI to Bear Creek. I wrongly presumed a round nose is a round nose, and that my BBI 1.150 would fit any 9mm. Uh, wrong.

[Bwana Six-Gun]

I guess I wasn't clear in my original post. The OAL is 1.115 to 1.120, but when I case guage, it isn't the bullet that sticks out of the guage, but the case head itself, about 1/16 th. That is what I don't understand, since the case is able to go in when first re-sized, but not with the bullet.

The jams she is having, are from the round not going into batterey (sp?).

Edited February 11, 2011 by Bwana Six-Gun

[ChrisW]

1.115 to 1.120 may still be a little too long. I actually use my barrel (out of the gun) as a case gauge. I would keep seating the bullet a little deeper until it drops in and out of the barrel without sticking. I would bet that the bullet is just a little too long and that is causing both issues with the gun and gauge.

Chris

[njl]

I guess I wasn't clear in my original post. The OAL is 1.115 to 1.120, but when I case guage, it isn't the bullet that sticks out of the guage, but the case head itself, about 1/16 th. That is what I don't understand, since the case is able to go in when first re-sized, but not with the bullet.

The jams she is having, are from the round not going into batterey (sp?).

My guess is your rounds are too fat for the gauge. What brand of brass have you been using? Maybe try seating the bullets a little longer. BBI's run fat, and if you're seating too deep, fat bullet + thicker part of the brass = oversized round. Have you taken measurements of the cartridge right around where you think the base of the bullet sits?

You never did say if she's shooting the factory barrel or an aftermarket one. They'd have to be really oversized to have problems in the factory barrel.

[ChuckM]

It definitely sounds like a fat bullet hitting the end of the chamber inside the case gauge. When one doesn't fit, tap it out and look at the edge of the bullet just in front of the case mouth. I'd bet you'll see rub marks on the sides.

I run into the same issue loading lead (0.357") bullets for my wife. They don't always seat in the case gauge. We never had a problem in the gun.

Good luck.

[tomfturner]

ditto on pulling it out and looking for rub marks ... see where those are at there could be a number of things causing this.

I would check where the rub marks are (if you can't see them obviously "paint" the case with a marker), after you've done this you should be able to tell what's causing the problem. It could be something as easy as too much bell, or something as complex as the bullets being to wide.

[98sr20ve]

What kind of dies?

I will disagree. I have never had a round that is too big not gauge because of the big bullet. I load large lead and it will fit in the case gauge easy. Your issue is likely that the bullet is a little off center and bulging the case in one area. The seating die is probably not working great with that bullet. Only other possibility is the case is getting deformed by crimping or is not getting crimped enough. It's more likely that your overcrimping but both are possible. Use your dial calipers to insure the flare is gone. Set the die to just remove the flare. Nothing more.

Edited February 11, 2011 by 98sr20ve

[al503]

To rule the bullet out, load a different bullet to the same oal and see if it gauges.

[njl]

To rule the bullet out, load a different bullet to the same oal and see if it gauges.

With different bullets having different profiles, diameters, and lengths, I don't see what doing the above would accomplish.

[ChrisW]

To rule the bullet out, load a different bullet to the same oal and see if it gauges.

With different bullets having different profiles, diameters, and lengths, I don't see what doing the above would accomplish.

I would have to agree. I went from a 115gr RN to a 147gr FP and had to seat the bullet a lot deeper because of the profile. That is why I suggested above to try seating a little deeper and see if that helps.

Chris

[al503]

To rule the bullet out, load a different bullet to the same oal and see if it gauges.

With different bullets having different profiles, diameters, and lengths, I don't see what doing the above would accomplish.

It would rule the bullet out. If he doesn't have an issue with a different bullet, he can look at the other possible causes (ie: crimp, sizing, etc.)

I can load a 147 zero at 1.22"+ whereas I have to load a 130 bbi at 1.155" or it won't gauge in the bbl in my limited minor pistol (alll other dies and settings are equal.)

Put another way, he can start checking out his dies/settings and other possible causes and waste his time when it could be the variations in profiles, etc., of the bullet that you already acknowledge.

[njl]

I can load a 147 zero at 1.22"+ whereas I have to load a 130 bbi at 1.155" or it won't gauge in the bbl in my limited minor pistol (alll other dies and settings are equal.)

You have to load 130gr BBI at 1.155" or it won't gauge in the barrel for what reason? My first attempt with 130gr BBI was 1.154" and I found the bullet was hitting the rifling in my Glock 17. I had to shorten it to 1.145" for them to drop in/out of the chamber...but they still don't quite drop all the way into the Dillon case gauge.

[al503]

I can load a 147 zero at 1.22"+ whereas I have to load a 130 bbi at 1.155" or it won't gauge in the bbl in my limited minor pistol (alll other dies and settings are equal.)

You have to load 130gr BBI at 1.155" or it won't gauge in the barrel for what reason? My first attempt with 130gr BBI was 1.154" and I found the bullet was hitting the rifling in my Glock 17. I had to shorten it to 1.145" for them to drop in/out of the chamber...but they still don't quite drop all the way into the Dillon case gauge.

Same reason as you. At 1.165", the bbis engage the rifling so I load them at 1.155" so it has a .01" to jump before it hits the rifling (and avoid a possible overpressure issue.). It's either the profile or od (or both) of the bbis. If he tries another bullet without issue, he can rule out a broken die, something else in the press that got loose, etc.

[njl]

Same reason as you. At 1.165", the bbis engage the rifling so I load them at 1.155" so it has a .01" to jump before it hits the rifling (and avoid a possible overpressure issue.). It's either the profile or od (or both) of the bbis. If he tries another bullet without issue, he can rule out a broken die, something else in the press that got loose, etc.

From your wording, I'd assumed you meant you had to load them to 1.155 and not any shorter or they wouldn't chamber.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Quick way to determine if the bullet is hitting the gage and keeping the round out;

Drop just a bullet into the gage. Hold it there with a pencil. Use your calipers to measure the distance from the other end to the nose of the bullet.

Now take a loaded round and place it in the gage. Measure the distance from the end to the bullet nose. If the two are the same, the bullet is the problem.

If the loaded round indicates the bullet loaded is not as far forward as the bullet alone, then your problem lies elsewhere.

[Bob DuBois]

Bwana, Looks like the base of the cartridge is the problem. Might try a Lee U die. I like to set the U die using a small strip of paper as a go no go gauge. With the handle down and slight pressure on it set the die so the paper will pull out but not go in. I know several people don't care for the U die but it works and is not expensive.

It will size closer to the extractor groove than other dies and I've seen it fix this kind of problem several times.

I shoot 9mm minor in IDPA with a Trojan using range brass, most of which is Glock pick ups.

The last person that made the switch in our IPSC group had a 9mm major open gun and he told me it solved a lot of his feeding problems.

The U die can be purchased at EGW or Lee direct.