Bwana Six-Gun Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I am in the process of taking my annual RO exam and this question has me stumped. "You are the CRO on a course of fire. you notice one of the competitors walking aroung with a holstered handgun with the hammer cocked. You should. A. Warn the competitor that he can't do that. B. Escort the competitor to a suitable range or safety area and take appropriate corrective action. (My Answer.)(Rule 7.1.2) C. Immediately DQ the competitor for Unsafe Gun Handling. D. Call the RM for help. E. Ignore the situation; it's his gun and he can holster it any way he wants. My answer was ruled incorrect, but I don't know if it is the basic answer, the rule or both. Anyone have any input. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Your basic answer is correct. But the rule I'd quote is 5.2.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) The chosen answer is correct but the cited rule is not. It should be Rule 5.2.2 5.2.2 Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be de-cocked. Anyone found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective action shall be made. Edited to add: a.roberts beat me to it... Edited February 2, 2011 by Cy Soto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Six-Gun Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thanks guys, I knew this was the place to go for help. I'm now good for another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 while we are at it -- what about --hammer down show clear--gun discharges when shooter drops the hammer--what is the rule,, latest and greatest new rule book says an AD is within 10'--10.4.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Check out 10.4.3 and 8.3.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 why is it not a DQ for AD ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 In the scenario you listed, the 10 foot rule doesn't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 No offense meant to anyone, but I've gotta ask... Are you guys looking for clarification for answers that scored as incorrect when you submitted your final test answers, or answers you don't just don't know and want to submit correctly? It is an open book test. Open the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 No offense meant to anyone, but I've gotta ask... Are you guys looking for clarification for answers that scored as incorrect when you submitted your final test answers, or answers you don't just don't know and want to submit correctly? It is an open book test. Open the book. just trying to understand,so I dont make an a*** out of myself!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 No offense meant to anyone, but I've gotta ask... Are you guys looking for clarification for answers that scored as incorrect when you submitted your final test answers, or answers you don't just don't know and want to submit correctly? It is an open book test. Open the book. just trying to understand,so I dont make an a*** out of myself!! I've done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 When I took the exam last year I somehow confused True and False. I knew the correct answer but clicked the wrong choice. Boy did I feel dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 why is it not a DQ for AD ?? It is an AD. It is a DQ. Rule 10.4.3 is under section 10.4(AD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 No offense meant to anyone, but I've gotta ask... Are you guys looking for clarification for answers that scored as incorrect when you submitted your final test answers, or answers you don't just don't know and want to submit correctly? It is an open book test. Open the book. just trying to understand,so I dont make an a*** out of myself!! Open the book and hit our search page. You can often read a discussion here that covers the match situation that generated the rule/question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik S. Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 while we are at it -- what about --hammer down show clear--gun discharges when shooter drops the hammer--what is the rule,, latest and greatest new rule book says an AD is within 10'--10.4.2 I'm playing the devil's advocate here and am not arguing the rules, but it seems like an AD after the "hammer down and holster" command would somewhat be the RO's fault for not ensuring that the firearm was clear. It is the shooter's responsibility ultimately, but seems like it would look awefully bad on the RO as well. I have seen youtube videos of alot of RO's who rush through this command. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 while we are at it -- what about --hammer down show clear--gun discharges when shooter drops the hammer--what is the rule,, latest and greatest new rule book says an AD is within 10'--10.4.2 I'm playing the devil's advocate here and am not arguing the rules, but it seems like an AD after the "hammer down and holster" command would somewhat be the RO's fault for not ensuring that the firearm was clear. It is the shooter's responsibility ultimately, but seems like it would look awefully bad on the RO as well. I have seen youtube videos of alot of RO's who rush through this command. Thoughts? That's a non-issue. The command is, "If clear, hammer down, holster". The "If" puts the sole responsibility on the competitor. There's no declaration by the RO that the gun is clear. As you said: It is the shooter's responsibility... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 while we are at it -- what about --hammer down show clear--gun discharges when shooter drops the hammer--what is the rule,, latest and greatest new rule book says an AD is within 10'--10.4.2 I'm playing the devil's advocate here and am not arguing the rules, but it seems like an AD after the "hammer down and holster" command would somewhat be the RO's fault for not ensuring that the firearm was clear. It is the shooter's responsibility ultimately, but seems like it would look awefully bad on the RO as well. I have seen youtube videos of alot of RO's who rush through this command. Thoughts? That's a non-issue. The command is, "If clear, hammer down, holster". The "If" puts the sole responsibility on the competitor. There's no declaration by the RO that the gun is clear. As you said: It is the shooter's responsibility... I agree 100%. Plus I'll just add, the shooter is responsible for his/her gun, not the RO. It's the RO's job to prevent a safety infraction, if they can. To put this into context, if I give You the command, "If you are finished, unload and show clear", and you do that and stop, and show me a chamber with a loaded round in it, I will give you the command again. I will repeat until you realize that the gun is not clear. However, how many times do you see at a match, local, major, whatever, when the RO starts "if you are finished....." and shooter ejects mag, racks slide, and pulls the trigger before the RO finishes the command? I see it every match. There is no way for an RO to stop you if you speed through the ULSC process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Never mind... My q was answered by the CZinSC. Edited February 11, 2011 by Cy Soto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik S. Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I guess that settles it. I know safety is ultimately the shooters SOLE responsibility, just wanted to get everyone's take on RO's that just give commands and leave it at that without going the extra mile to actually look into the chamber etc. If I was the RO in the scenario where shooter had the hammer down prior to the command "if clear, hammer down and holster" I would DEFINITELY say something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I guess that settles it. I know safety is ultimately the shooters SOLE responsibility, just wanted to get everyone's take on RO's that just give commands and leave it at that without going the extra mile to actually look into the chamber etc. If I was the RO in the scenario where shooter had the hammer down prior to the command "if clear, hammer down and holster" I would DEFINITELY say something. If you just keep repeating "If you are finished, unload and show clear" until they show clear, at least some of them seem to get the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac4wordplay Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I guess that settles it. I know safety is ultimately the shooters SOLE responsibility, just wanted to get everyone's take on RO's that just give commands and leave it at that without going the extra mile to actually look into the chamber etc. If I was the RO in the scenario where shooter had the hammer down prior to the command "if clear, hammer down and holster" I would DEFINITELY say something. If you just keep repeating "If you are finished, unload and show clear" until they show clear, at least some of them seem to get the message. OMG! What a long and miserable day that would be. Imagine doing that at Nationals. (Not that I disagree with the concept - I wholeheartedly agree.) Best, ac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It is my understanding it falls on the shooter, whether the ro confirms or not. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I guess that settles it. I know safety is ultimately the shooters SOLE responsibility, just wanted to get everyone's take on RO's that just give commands and leave it at that without going the extra mile to actually look into the chamber etc. If I was the RO in the scenario where shooter had the hammer down prior to the command "if clear, hammer down and holster" I would DEFINITELY say something. If you just keep repeating "If you are finished, unload and show clear" until they show clear, at least some of them seem to get the message. OMG! What a long and miserable day that would be. Imagine doing that at Nationals. (Not that I disagree with the concept - I wholeheartedly agree.) Best, ac If everyone who ran a stage would do it, the shooters would learn pretty fast. There are a lot of competitors who follow the rules as best they can; there are a lot who like to see what the RO will let them get away with. Every time I see an RO let a competitor do this I wish for a perfect world, with only competent ROs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It is my understanding it falls on the shooter, whether the ro confirms or not. Correct? Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik S. Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 At the local club here, the RO's are very vigilent, thankfully!! They maintain a very safe range and are always willing to help shooters and point out areas for improving safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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