Religious Shooter Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hmm... In a real match, it's very rare that it would be advantageous to reload while not moving. When you evaluate the two techniques 1) against your shoulder vs. 2) unmounted (and tucked in) you should do it while moving. The against your shoulder technique is very different when moving vs. standing still. I unmount and do a slight tuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hmm... In a real match, it's very rare that it would be advantageous to reload while not moving. When you evaluate the two techniques 1) against your shoulder vs. 2) unmounted (and tucked in) you should do it while moving. The against your shoulder technique is very different when moving vs. standing still. I unmount and do a slight tuck. I will certainly keep practicing the dismount while moving, but I wanted to learn the "mounted reload" for those times when your just standing there, and need to fire off a few more from the same position, It seems it will EVENTUALLY be faster! I was told by some better shotgunners than I to hold the shells more vertical, but the real caveat (I finally figured out after the last vid was made) is to never break contact with the lifter, and your thumb. I went back and did some more super slow loads, and everytime my thumb comes off, and the lifer falls back down, I had a fumble. So, for now I'm gonna concentrate on the new technique, until it feels right, then turn up the speed. I'll post a vid later (when I finally get it under control at speed) In the meantime feel free to post your own "loading videos" here for all to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Hmm... In a real match, it's very rare that it would be advantageous to reload while not moving. I am almost always finishing an 8 round load while standing still looking at the next array of targets unless the match is in some reall spread out natural terrain. You can cover a lot if ground walking in 6-8 seconds. Edited January 7, 2011 by jtischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I never dismount the shotgun from my shoulder, and I can load at a dead out run, either direction...but I am not anywhere near the league of Religious Shooter. Guess I will have to learn to dismount the shotgun in order to get better. KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I never dismount the shotgun from my shoulder, and I can load at a dead out run, either direction...but I am not anywhere near the league of Religious Shooter. Guess I will have to learn to dismount the shotgun in order to get better. KurtM I could probably give you some "tips" at the next match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Kyle, Try putting the butt right in your armpit, and lock it there with your upper arm. I've had much better consistency with keeping the gun as horizontal as possible. Less consistant with the muzzle up. Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Dismounting the gun to load and then remounting it takes an extra second or so, so I am glad you guys do it that way. Also If you suddenly realise in the middle of loading that you are about to run by a target you get to re-mount shoot and dismount and then finish loading adding more time yet...I like your plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Other than you and Mr. Corvette who reloads the shottie in a firing position? KellyN? ...nope Butler? ...nope Horner? ...nope Mr. Modest? ...nope Bruce P.? ??? That bad-ass from team Noveske? ??? Keith Garcia? ??? Mr. He Man (AKA the guy that lives near the dam)? ??? The guy that shoots for Wilson Combat? ??? Chris S? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Well, I guess I do now! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Kelly Neil Does about half the time. Rob Romero...AKA Bass Ass Noveske shooter Does...now. Horner and Piatt strong hand load 4 at a time..not the same way. Mr. Modest turns and burns Pat Kelley Does at times...(Heavy Metal Dam Shooter) I have seen Keith do it at times. Trapr Swonson Does all the time. Jeremy Parker does half the time. I have seen Chris do it also. I squad with these guys all the time, and I don't recall seeing you there, so outside of what you have seen on a video clip or two what is the data base you draw from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I started the "weakhand" loading technique about this time last year after a 10 minute "Heres how you do it fellas" from Mr.Weakhand himself. I think I used a whole roll of medical tape on my thumb before it got callused enough. I had lots of drops and thrown shells in the beginning too. Loading from the shoulder I find that if I roll the loading port slightly to my loading hand I get less fumbles, sort of like a pistol reload when you roll the magwell around to see some of it. Also I find that not allowing the muzzle to sink down or even sightly elevated helps my fumble rate go down. Stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I get the info from you. Why are most part timers? Why aren't they doing it all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Other than you and Mr. Corvette who reloads the shottie in a firing position? KellyN? ...nope Butler? ...nope Horner? ...nope Mr. Modest? ...nope Bruce P.? ??? That bad-ass from team Noveske? ??? Keith Garcia? ??? Mr. He Man (AKA the guy that lives near the dam)? ??? The guy that shoots for Wilson Combat? ??? Chris S? ??? Just think how fast they could be? Who is the fastest tube fed open gun reloader? Jerry somebody. He keeps the gun on his shoulder doesn't he? I should add that that I load both from the hip and from the shoulder. If I have a long walk I'll drop the gun down and save my tiny little bicep muscle. As I approach the array I'll bring the gun up mid load and get on target. In a fast hoser match like the AR section I loaded just about everything from the shoulder because the movement is so limited. Edited January 8, 2011 by jtischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I'd call Jerry M a hybrid. He's sorta putting it on his shoulder. But it's canted and it is not in a normal firing position. If you look at his run he is loading while the shottie is canted on his shoulder... dismounts... then shoots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMmjY4545kA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) I don't want to argue over what is up and what it tucked. The point is that you can save time if you dont have to dismount and remount the gun from the shoulder. I don't think anybody can argue against that can they? I hope Cramblitt does a head to head side match at the AR15.com match on shotgun loading. That would be fun in a double elimination format. Shoot one load 8. Maybe best 2/3 or one and done to save time. I'd like to see how I stack up to the names listed above and who would come out on top. P.S. Shotty is spelled like that if you want to be cool like the guys on the other forum and save a letter typing. That was another thing KurtM taught me on this forum. LOL! Edited January 8, 2011 by jtischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Shotty it is. If you are static and/or have very little movement I see the benefit of having the gun on your shoulder. But for longer distances? If you look at what Jerry M did on the later parts of that video, he reloaded while shouldered, unmounted, mounted then shot. If he just unmounted and loaded then remounted to shoot would he have lost time? So you are a part timer too? Edited January 8, 2011 by Religious Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 So how does Taran compensate for the time he is loosing by dismounting the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Taran makes up his time by shooting real fast, and accurately. I am surprised that you wouldn't know that as you seem to draw all your info from video, cause that is what you will see in most of them! My orriginal post was in response to your statement " The against your shoulder technique is very different when moving vs. standing still." Which ISN'T true at all and since you don't do it how would you know? You make it seem like it can't work; well it does and it works very well. As to the nigling over what is mounted and what isn't...when I grab my shotgun...(notice wanton letter waste) for an empty chamber start and rack it when I pick it up, it usually isn't in my shoulder....so I guess I am a part timer as well. I will drop the gun down if there is a long run AFTER it is full charged, so like Jerry, I guess once again I am a part timer....BUT I load the thing fully AT THE SHOULDER, and while I am doing so I am really moving...just like Jerry! You remind me of a guy who is telling a Bee why it can't fly, and why he is doing it wrong Now let me ask you this, do you drop your pistol down to mid waist level when you reload it? Do you turn your pistol over and reload it strong hand? Do you do that with your AR? Do you do these things only when running and do it a different way when standing still or have little movement? No? Now most folk when they have a long run with a pistol will hold it in one hand and sprint that way to be more comfortable, why wouldn't you want to be more comfortable while running a long way with your shotgun as well? and does that indicate a part time pistol dropper when reloading? Well we both know the answer to all of the the above is NO. Of the august list you printed well over half of the people on it did NOT used to weakhand load, and I was told by a couple of them why weakhand loading just wouldn't work...and now look at where they are! And I think that after they catch up they will load at the shoulder as well. I know Jerry changed very recently as did Kelly...now why do you think THAT happened? Edited January 8, 2011 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Keep this discussion going guys. I think Fuzzy and Wuzzy the 3 gunning cartoon bears just found their next topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 In the meantime feel free to post your own "loading videos" here for all to help. No-one has that much time to watch mine...maybe in a few months. I am practicing everyday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 My orriginal post was in response to your statement " The against your shoulder technique is very different when moving vs. standing still." Which ISN'T true at all and since you don't do it how would you know? You make it seem like it can't work. You don't think it's different from just standing and reloading vs. moving? We will have to just disagree there. Other than that I said Kyle should try them both while moving to see how they work for him. Don't you think I have enough brain cells to have tried reloading with it shouldered while in a match and in practice? And somehow came to my own conclusion that it wasn't for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Yes I think you tried it. Yes I think it didn't work for you right away, so therefore you think it is very different while moving (which it isn't). I guess that is the same thing you would say about shooting and moving, but with a modicome of practic, what is happening to the upper body is disconnected from the lower body...but there is that pesky word again...practice. Yes you tried it, and like so many others, when it came to weakhand loading, it didn't work after a few tries and it seemed fumbly...therefore it doesn't work...Well it might not work for you, but for a new shooter who is just now learning how to load, he might as well put in the time to do it right. Kind of like when I P.M.ed him about how to hold the shells and how to hold his hand. If he gets this down he will be stomping shotgun stages instead of telling folks how stuff is "very different". KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaTactical Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, here is some video I took a month or so ago that I never uploaded but this thread gave me an excuse to haha.... This vid is what I looked like when I first got my caddies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDj4ZbBYxVU And after a month or two of serious practice...it looks like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJS1N_sMRt4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biga9999 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I ordered some caddies last week. Should be here Tuesday. Then I can start practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon9 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 From a novices perspective.... I've been doing this for about 3-4months now. I initially tried weakhand reloading, weakhand reloading from the shoulder, weakhand reloading for shot with stronghand loading for slug or buck and just stronghand reloading. I settled on pure weakhand reloading with the butt tucked into my armpit as the most natural feeling and easiest under pressure. I came across this thread and decided to try weakhand reloading from the shoulder again Friday night before the local match. After the last few months of getting comfortable with the basics of dropping and reloading weakhand it took me about 5min to get comfortable with loading with my shotgun at my shoulder. I am still slow as I don't practice enough(laziness and too much work). However, I was averaging about a shell faster then my earlier average within 15 min of practice while walking down the hallway and through doorways in both directions. Yes, I was timing it, just don't ask for my times The funny thing is overcoming muscle memory, at the local match on Saturday I had to consciously remind myself to keep the gun at my shoulder or put it back to my shoulder after only 3-4 months of dropping to reload. One more habit to break!!!! i shoulda done it right from the beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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