Bushing Comp

[bubbajojo]

I could use a little help. I have done a lot of searching here on the forum and I have not really found the info I was looking for. Here’s the deal. I am looking to build a Single Stack Open gun for steel in 9mm. I’m looking to build up an existing 9mm 1911 (I don’t have one as of yet). I don’t shoot a whole lot of Steel Challenge, however any excuse to build a new gun you gotta jump on it. I am not trying to dump a ton of money. My question to all is, does anyone have any experience with the Wilson Multi-Comp Bushing Compensator? I know there is a lot of info here on this comp and that comp and what everyone likes, but I would like everyone’s take on the Wilson. I know it is not going to be as effective as a Bedell or a Brazo, but remember I’m looking to build this gun on the cheap. I don’t want to skimp on quality that’s not what I mean “on the cheap”. I’m looking to do all the work myself and I’m not really at the point that I am comfortable fitting a new barrel, barrel link and such. So if anyone has thoughts or experience with the bushing comps (the Wilson in particular) I would have all ears open.

[rishii]

if you're talking about a comp that replaces the barrel bushing and not one that the barrel is threaded and the comp is screwed on and uses a barrel bushing behind the comp.

save your money, other than adding a couple ounces of weight and lightening your wallet some the serve no purpose.

you would be better off check the classified here and on gun broker for a use single stack comp gun in 9 or 38 super and work your way from there.

[mpolans]

I'd agree with the above. Because the hole the bullet passes through in the comp is going to have to be at least the diameter of the barrel, you're going to have a very ineffective comp. In addition, it's going to add mass to slide, which is going to slow your cycling down and force you to use an even lighter recoil spring. Add to this the fact that you're already going to be using reduced loads for steel matches, which means you'll have less gas pressure to make the comp effective especially with a bushing comp. In addition, with light loads, you'll have less recoil to cycle your gun, to the point where you'll basically have to run a recoil spring so light that it will likely affect the reliability of the gun.

[Joe4d]

There are other platforms that do have easier to fit near drop in barrels, several companies make extended ported barrels. Not as great as an actual comp but your talking powder puff loads to begin with. MAybe something along the lines of M&P, XD or Glocks, can be built by adding a mag funnel, a ported barrel and a slide ride optic. Alot of the issues with the open poly guns is trying to run major longer than standard ammo, but for steel factory spec ammo is perfect. If you have to have a 1911 platform on the cheap Id just look for a deal on a used 38 super or 9mm and cough up the bucks to have a comp and/or new barrel fit.

[G-ManBart]

It's not going to give you what you want/need, for a number of reasons. One, it's attached to the slide, so you're adding weight to the slide, which is not what you want in a 9mm steel gun. Two, a big part of the recoil reduction of an Open gun happens when the hot gasses hit the first port wall of the comp, and push forward on the barrel...that won't happen with the bushing comp. The other thing is that with such a huge bore diameter, it's not really going to do much, if anything about directing gas upwards.

Unfortunately, when it comes to something like a 1911, if you can't fit a barrel, you can't build a gun. R,

[bubbajojo]

Thanks for the feed back that is the exact info I was looking for. You guys have been very helpful. I appreciate the classified recommendation however I was really looking to do the build myself. As for fitting the barrel, I have the confidence that I can fit all the parts myself it is that I just have not done it before. As for using a Glock, XD or Smith, I have been there and done that. When it comes to working on Glock’s I can do it in my sleep. I have been shooting and working on them for years. I want to get into the 1911 arena. But again, thanks all for the info. Standard comp for me it is.

[mark carr]

Here's a pic of my old 1911 steel gun it was built with a bushing barrel Swiss cheese slide it worked good it has several 100,000 rnd's through it I have been thinking of resurrecting it for next summer if you would like I could get you some more pic;s of the bushing - comp setup.

[ipscjoe]

You need some more information......If the comp is like the one described above, no baffles because the barrel passes through it as it cycles then pass.........

Now if the comp is threaded, but has the relief cut in the back that allows the bushing to seat flush inside of it, then that would be ok.....Actually it's straight up old school and was recomended over cone comps for steel back in the day,becuase the gun would cycle better with light loads.....at least that was theory ....

Edited January 1, 2011 by ipscjoe

[warpspeed]

A dedicated "steel" gun , to me, is a gun set up to run lighter than minor PF loads. Stuff like 110 pf.

I think you could build a gun, with a 5" lightened slide and a bushing barrel that was fast cycling and flat shooting without a comp hanging on the end.

What do you really have to lose ? If it is not what you think, have the barrel threaded and add a comp.

[ipscjoe]

A dedicated "steel" gun , to me, is a gun set up to run lighter than minor PF loads. Stuff like 110 pf.

I think you could build a gun, with a 5" lightened slide and a bushing barrel that was fast cycling and flat shooting without a comp hanging on the end.

What do you really have to lose ? If it is not what you think, have the barrel threaded and add a comp.

Isn't the PF for Steel Challenge like 120 or something?.....If he's going to shoot open (i.e. dot).....I'd hang a comp on it......or go with a ported Shueman and no comp like Ross Neuwel's winning gun ala late 90's

Edited January 1, 2011 by ipscjoe

[Flexmoney]

I think you can skip the comp on a steel gun. Just go with the factory barrel.

120 pf is mousefart territory.

[warpspeed]

A dedicated "steel" gun , to me, is a gun set up to run lighter than minor PF loads. Stuff like 110 pf.

I think you could build a gun, with a 5" lightened slide and a bushing barrel that was fast cycling and flat shooting without a comp hanging on the end.

What do you really have to lose ? If it is not what you think, have the barrel threaded and add a comp.

Isn't the PF for Steel Challenge like 120 or something?.....If he's going to shoot open (i.e. dot).....I'd hang a comp on it......or go with a ported Shueman and no comp like Ross Neuwel's winning gun ala late 90's

All it has to do is make the stop plate activator activate. There is no chrono @ the SC.

[G-ManBart]

A dedicated "steel" gun , to me, is a gun set up to run lighter than minor PF loads. Stuff like 110 pf.

I think you could build a gun, with a 5" lightened slide and a bushing barrel that was fast cycling and flat shooting without a comp hanging on the end.

What do you really have to lose ? If it is not what you think, have the barrel threaded and add a comp.

Isn't the PF for Steel Challenge like 120 or something?.....If he's going to shoot open (i.e. dot).....I'd hang a comp on it......or go with a ported Shueman and no comp like Ross Neuwel's winning gun ala late 90's

All it has to do is make the stop plate activator activate. There is no chrono @ the SC.

This is probably what he was thinking of:

http://www.isishootists.com/scsa/steel_challenge_rules.html

AMMUNITION

There will be no multiple projectile or magnum loads allowed. Bullet velocity of 750 FPS is recommended to achieve full destruction of the bullet. Be aware that a power factor of 120 is required on the impact stop plates at the Steel Challenge Pistol Tournament.

[mark carr]

I realize these not bushing com you described in post one but it is a way use your bushing barrel and still add a little comp for steel.

[bubbajojo]

I think you can skip the comp on a steel gun. Just go with the factory barrel.

120 pf is mousefart territory.

Didn't even think about not running a comp, interesting. As I said I was trying to build this gun on the cheap thats why I wanted info on the Wilson comp. Being that is not the way to go what are the thoughts on this. Take a Kimber 9mm Pro Carry Stainless. Full size grip, 4.5" bbl (for that shorty feel). Since the slide is set up for a reverse spring plug I could switch out the barrel (kart, bar-sto, ect threaded) and run a cone comp or threaded comp, using a lighter recoil spring. Pop off the sights, put a slide racker on in the rear dovetail. Drop in a C&S trigger kit, install a C-More Serendipity, Dawson ICE magwell and be done with it. The whole idea is to have FUN and build something and have FUN.

[Al Capizzo]

I shot a .38 super single stack for steel matches for about two years. Of course at the PF for steel it is essentially a long 9mm. The advice to shoot without a comp is really good advice. I put a J-point in place of the BoMar sight on mine and it was an instant open gun. The gun never held me back, that is for sure, and was a ball to shoot.

[CocoBolo]

This is a special time of year, if you watch the BE classifieds and the USPSA Classifieds for a while you can purchase a Real Open gun probably for less money than taking a Kimber and molesting it.

I'm with ACapizzio on this one, there is enough time plate to plate on steel that a compensator isn't doing much for you. A standard 1911 9mm shooting mouse fart loads is pretty tame.

Good deals come to those that are patient enough to wait for them and smart enough to recognize them when they see one.

[bubbajojo]

I'm sure that there are great deals in the classifieds and thanks for the advice, but then I would not be building one. Thats no FUN. You can't learn how to build one if you buy one that is already built. I almost get more enjoyment in building stuff than in shooting.

[twodownzero]

If "fun" = dangerous an ineffective, go for it.

It sounds like you have this picture of a 1911 as some sort of modular, lego-like assembly rather than a well-fitted precision instrument.

If your past experience has suggested that the 1911--especially a 9mm 1911--was an exercise in assembling parts and calling that "building" a gun, I suspect you'll be pretty disappointed if you try to do the same with a compensated open gun.

If you're not experienced fitting parts to a 1911 at all and you're looking at this as your first project, I also think you're well on your way to being disappointed.

I think you'd be well served to take the advice of many in this thread, at least two of whom are regular posters and excellent open shooters, and reconsider your idea of a "cheap" "open gun."

My advice is worth what you paid for it, and we're glad to have you on the forum, but I suspect that if you thought you were going to throw together some sort of open steel gun in an afternoon in your basement, that you'll be nothing but disappointed.

[tunakilla]

I would go for it, a bushing vs cone comp would be great for a steel gun. With a comp the Dot is usually easier to "read" or call the shot. Sure the loads we run, 115gr @ 950fps (will activate stop plate) is not much but the ability to call the shot with the "DOT" is enhanced with a comp.

As far as DIY, many of the top Gunsmiths have started as true amateurs, but where would we be if Bill Wilson dot not give it a try.

A few friends who are Top Pistol-smiths did not had little to no machine experience.

Sure you may make some mistakes but thats how we learn. Find someone who can weld (heli-arc) and you can save many of the parts that you may mess up.

Just my 2 cents

[eric nielsen]

As they say there's not a lot of performance to be gained with a compensator at low-low power factors BUT, back when there was only one division at the Steel Challenge [Open] and nearly every top shooter went to the match each year, you'd see nearly every single gun had a barrel/compensator combo on it.

It used to be pretty easy to find a drop-in or gunsmith-fit kit for a bushing-barrel/threaded-comp combination, they were sold by Bill Wilson and Richard Heinie and others. Nowadays it's tough, maybe someone newer to the sport will know where to find one in 9mm or 38S. There's not much difference between a short-cone compensator and a bushing-barrel comp. EGW and Bedell both sell the short/skinny cone comps, maybe Brazos too?

Edited January 2, 2011 by eric nielsen

[CocoBolo]

As they say there's not a lot of performance to be gained with a compensator at low-low power factors BUT, back when there was only one division at the Steel Challenge [Open] and nearly every top shooter went to the match each year, you'd see nearly every single gun had a barrel/compensator combo on it.

It used to be pretty easy to find a drop-in or gunsmith-fit kit for a bushing-barrel/threaded-comp combination, they were sold by Bill Wilson and Richard Heinie and others. Nowadays it's tough, maybe someone newer to the sport will know where to find one in 9mm or 38S. There's not much difference between a short-cone compensator and a bushing-barrel comp. EGW and Bedell both sell the short/skinny cone comps, maybe Brazos too?

The Brazos ThunderComp II in a Cone is an excellent comp, for minor or even major 9. You can take a standard bushing barrel thread it and then fit this comp to the slide. You also neec to cut a 1 degree angel on the end of the slide. The cone is .710 so you need to cut it down on a lathe to fit the end of the slide. Some will say the barrel is too short, well it won't reach quite all the way to the first port this is more cosmetic than anyting and the comp will actually preform a little better with this added gas expansion space. (I got that info from Dave Dawson). I have several of the Brazos comps and none of them needed to be align reamed. On the other hand my Bedel Ti had to be reamed 4 times to get it right.

If you check the classifieds far enough back there is one still for sale.

Edited January 2, 2011 by CocoBolo

[bubbajojo]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Like I said this is all about fun. I'm looking to learn so if I buy a gun then I'm not learning anything. As for the LEGO thing. I totally know that 1911 are not drop in lego kits and that is the fun part about it. If you never try you will never know if you could do it.

[bubbajojo]

As they say there's not a lot of performance to be gained with a compensator at low-low power factors BUT, back when there was only one division at the Steel Challenge [Open] and nearly every top shooter went to the match each year, you'd see nearly every single gun had a barrel/compensator combo on it.

It used to be pretty easy to find a drop-in or gunsmith-fit kit for a bushing-barrel/threaded-comp combination, they were sold by Bill Wilson and Richard Heinie and others. Nowadays it's tough, maybe someone newer to the sport will know where to find one in 9mm or 38S. There's not much difference between a short-cone compensator and a bushing-barrel comp. EGW and Bedell both sell the short/skinny cone comps, maybe Brazos too?

The Brazos ThunderComp II in a Cone is an excellent comp, for minor or even major 9. You can take a standard bushing barrel thread it and then fit this comp to the slide. You also neec to cut a 1 degree angel on the end of the slide. The cone is .710 so you need to cut it down on a lathe to fit the end of the slide. Some will say the barrel is too short, well it won't reach quite all the way to the first port this is more cosmetic than anyting and the comp will actually preform a little better with this added gas expansion space. (I got that info from Dave Dawson). I have several of the Brazos comps and none of them needed to be align reamed. On the other hand my Bedel Ti had to be reamed 4 times to get it right.

If you check the classifieds far enough back there is one still for sale.

Great info, thanks

[bubbajojo]

If "fun" = dangerous an ineffective, go for it.

It sounds like you have this picture of a 1911 as some sort of modular, lego-like assembly rather than a well-fitted precision instrument.

If your past experience has suggested that the 1911--especially a 9mm 1911--was an exercise in assembling parts and calling that "building" a gun, I suspect you'll be pretty disappointed if you try to do the same with a compensated open gun.

If you're not experienced fitting parts to a 1911 at all and you're looking at this as your first project, I also think you're well on your way to being disappointed.

I think you'd be well served to take the advice of many in this thread, at least two of whom are regular posters and excellent open shooters, and reconsider your idea of a "cheap" "open gun."

My advice is worth what you paid for it, and we're glad to have you on the forum, but I suspect that if you thought you were going to throw together some sort of open steel gun in an afternoon in your basement, that you'll be nothing but disappointed.

Thanks for the welcome to the forum and thanks for the advice.

I know that the 1911 is in no way an easy build and that is why I am drawn to it. The worst that can happen is that I do a crappy job putting one together and have to spend more money than I wanted too. Live and learn right....thats how we get started with anything right?