Barrel Kit for Open Rifle

[PerfectDouble]

I am building an AR for the first time (for an Open rifle), and I would like to get some advice or opinions on the barrel kit.

I plan on getting a stainless steel, medium contour, 1:8 twist, 18" barrel, with a .223 Wylde chamber and a rifle length gas system (with an adjustable low profile gas block), and (of course) a muzzle brake/compensator.

I think I have narrowed it down to either the Firebird Precision or JP Enterprises barrel kit. The Firebird kit uses a Lothar-Walther barrel, a Firebird aluminum adjustable low profile gas block, and a Rolling Thunder Comp. The JP kit I am considering uses a JP barrel (from a Wilson blank, I believe), a JP steel adjustable low profile gas block (I may switch this out for the Firebird aluminum gas block), and a JP Large-Profile Tactical Compensator.

I know that I can't go wrong with either setup, but I wanted to know if anyone had any opinions or reasons to go with one over the other.

Related question: Any thoughts (or hopefully direct experience) on the JP heat sink? Does it offer any real/noticeable advantages or is it just an additional weight at the front of the rifle?

Thanks for the feedback...

[outerlimits]

Forget the heat sink. Can't go wrong with either. Luv all JP barrels, but jim's stuff is first rate too.

[smokshwn]

Pick one and go with it. I have both...the JP is a tad faster but it makes no difference ultimately as it is not so much faster that it changes anything for the ranges we shoot.

With respect to the heatsink I can't tell that it does anything one way or the other. I am sure given JP's attention to detail that there is some temperature advantage and it may extend barrel life. It adds no weight as the barrel is turned down for the heat sink to fit so it is pretty much a wash with respect to weight.

[Graham Smith]

If you are going to part it out, you don't need to buy a "kit", you can get separate barrel, gas block, and compensator so you can have what you want.

If you want to get that much all together, why not go the extra mile and just get a complete upper? That way, you can get the barrel installed perfectly and torqued down right from the start and everything all lined up properly.

[RiggerJJ]

The heat sink definatly does what it says. I noticed a big difference right away when shooting a looooonnnggg rifle stage, espcially the ones that has lots of fast hoser stuff at first then long range...when I go to the long range stuff I don't see a mirage like I used to without the heat sink (which usually happened in the heat of the summer).

jj

[CocoBolo]

For an Open Rife wouldn't you want the JP Recoil Eliminator, and not the Tactical Comp's. I just put together a tactical rifle. I priced it all out a number of ways, and buying the whole upper is cost effective and fool proof. I went another way, Sabre Defense 18" fluted barrel, Comp, Pri Carbon Fiber, JP Low Mass, and RRA Nat Match Lower. I wanted to ditch the heavy weight for the short fast courses, fluting helps make the mirage faster heat dissapation.

I saw at least 4 JP rifles sell cheap here on the Forum in the last 2 weeks. I'm sure more are going to be sacraficed soon.

[OPENB]

I built what you described, except I went with the White Oak Armament barrel from Ranier Arms. It is 1-7 twist, so it can stabilize 75-77 grainers, & is heavy profile, but is otherwise what you are looking for. Great price, and in stock. I sent it to ADCO and turned it down to M4 profile under the handguards. Very good barrel. I think too much is made of comps, pick one and shoot. I run the Miculek, best bang for the buck.

[PerfectDouble]

With respect to the heatsink I can't tell that it does anything one way or the other. I am sure given JP's attention to detail that there is some temperature advantage and it may extend barrel life. It adds no weight as the barrel is turned down for the heat sink to fit so it is pretty much a wash with respect to weight.

Thank you for the reply.

I just called JP and asked if the barrel were turned down to add the heat sink, and they said that it wasn't. Obviously, that's on their barrel only. If one were to use another barrel, it might have to be re-contoured for the heat sink.

I also asked what the added weight of the heat sink would be. For the short, .650" inside diameter (for the .223 barrels) heat sink, it is 6 oz, and for the long version, it is 8 oz.

I'm still on the fence regarding the heat sink. It may improve the performance slightly on long "hose 'em" stages, but I don't know if that's worth the extra half pound. (I am intentionally trying to reduce the weight as much as possible.) I can always add it later if I want.

[PerfectDouble]

If you are going to part it out, you don't need to buy a "kit", you can get separate barrel, gas block, and compensator so you can have what you want.

Yes. That's true. I was originally going that route (and I may still by using a Firebird gas block on a JP kit). However, when it came to the barrel, I realized that I needed to get something specifically made/designed for multi-gun (e.g. many of the super accurate barrels are more suited for bench rest or sniping than run 'n gun due to weight/contour), and when it came to the comp, it seemed to come down to three choices: Benny Hill Rolling Thunder, JP Tactical, or Lund/SJC Titan (the consensus seemed to be just pick one of the three; they're all great). Therefore, I decided to get a barrel kit from one of the top AR makers for multi-gun: Firebird or JP -- they each use of the the top compensators, and they each use one of the top barrels. Basically, I don't have a preference for any one over the other (either barrel or compensator).

If you want to get that much all together, why not go the extra mile and just get a complete upper? That way, you can get the barrel installed perfectly and torqued down right from the start and everything all lined up properly.

I considered that, but I really wanted to have my own, ideal, perfect for me, completely customized rifle. (I know that sounds contrary to what I wrote above with regards to the barrel and comp. Oh well...)

[PerfectDouble]

For an Open Rife wouldn't you want the JP Recoil Eliminator, and not the Tactical Comp's. I just put together a tactical rifle. I priced it all out a number of ways, and buying the whole upper is cost effective and fool proof. I went another way, Sabre Defense 18" fluted barrel, Comp, Pri Carbon Fiber, JP Low Mass, and RRA Nat Match Lower. I wanted to ditch the heavy weight for the short fast courses, fluting helps make the mirage faster heat dissapation.

I saw at least 4 JP rifles sell cheap here on the Forum in the last 2 weeks. I'm sure more are going to be sacraficed soon.

I decided to go with the JP Large Profile Tactical Comp, which is only legal for Open division, over the JP Recoil Eliminator for several reasons: 1) the recoil reduction of both are almost identical (according to several people I asked at JP [including JP himself]) 2) the Tactical Comp has ports on the top to reduce muzzle climb, unlike the Recoil Eliminator (same sources) 3) it is possible that the Recoil Eliminator could get momentarily caught or tied up in certain circumstances such as shooting with the barrel through a port, etc. 4) aesthetics -- I like the look of the Tactical Compensator better.

Yes, it is certainly cheaper to buy an assembled upper or complete rifle, but that's not the point or motivation of this build. I really wanted to build/design my own ideal rifle.

Thanks for your help.

[MarkCO]

I have both, shoot both and both are great...but different.

On an Open rifle, defiantely get a JP heat sink. They work and essentially eliminate mirage when you are at higher magnification. They will increase barrel life as well. Essential if you use magnification over 5 or 6 x.

I get about 80 fps more velocity out of the JP Supermatch than the Frebird, however, the Firebird does have an edge on reliability when dirty or when ammo is case checked in a standard guage. If you get a JP barrel, you also need a JP case gauge!

As for the gas block, go with steel, NOT aluminum, and clamp, not set screw. I'm pretty sure the Firebird blocks will be steel moving forward. The new JP's are this way. If you want an extended handguard (you do) you also want the gas block to be low profile (#5 from JP).

I'd go with the Lothar barrel, JP heat-sink, JP brake. Firebird will be able to provide a new, and very high quality carbon Fiber handguard (custom cut to your desired length) as well which will reduce the weight to make up for some of that added by the heat sink.

Edited December 28, 2010 by MarkCO

[DyNo!]

The JP tank brake is superior to any compensator that is legal in the tactical division.

It is banned for a reason.

Edited December 28, 2010 by DyNo!

[PerfectDouble]

I built what you described, except I went with the White Oak Armament barrel from Ranier Arms. It is 1-7 twist, so it can stabilize 75-77 grainers, & is heavy profile, but is otherwise what you are looking for. Great price, and in stock. I sent it to ADCO and turned it down to M4 profile under the handguards. Very good barrel. I think too much is made of comps, pick one and shoot. I run the Miculek, best bang for the buck.

Thanks. I've heard good things about White Oak and Rainier Arms. (In fact, I called Rainier Arms with some questions about Uppers and Lowers, and they were very nice and helpful.)

I've heard the same thing about comps from several different sources, which is why it is not as big a concern as some of the other parts or manufacturers over which I've been obsessing...

[PerfectDouble]

I have both, shoot both and both are great...but different.

On an Open rifle, defiantely get a JP heat sink. They work and essentially eliminate mirage when you are at higher magnification. They will increase barrel life as well. Essential if you use magnification over 5 or 6 x.

I get about 80 fps more velocity out of the JP Supermatch than the Frebird, however, the Firebird does have an edge on reliability when dirty or when ammo is case checked in a standard guage. If you get a JP barrel, you also need a JP case gauge!

As for the gas block, go with steel, NOT aluminum, and clamp, not set screw. I'm pretty sure the Firebird blocks will be steel moving forward. The new JP's are this way. If you want an extended handguard (you do) you also want the gas block to be low profile (#5 from JP).

I'd go with the Lothar barrel, JP heat-sink, JP brake. Firebird will be able to provide a new, and very high quality carbon Fiber handguard (custom cut to your desired length) as well which will reduce the weight to make up for some of that added by the heat sink.

Wow. Thanks for all the great info.

I have been talking to Jim at Firebird over the past couple of weeks (super nice guy; very knowledgeable and patient and understanding; really, a great person), and I will be getting a Firebird upper with an installed Firebird carbon fiber handguard (extended -- I'm thinking 15.5" [like the new JP's] unless convinced otherwise). I've also asked Jim if he would install the barrel for whatever fee he charges and he graciously said that he would. (Thank goodness! I was afraid I would mess things up if I tried to do it myself! One of my original goals was to entirely build this rifle myself, but I'm using such expensive and top of the line parts, I don't want to mess it up.)

I was thinking of going with the aluminum gas block to shave off a couple of ounces and because Firebird makes one (I figure it can't be bad if Jim makes one.), but I will go with a JP steel low profile one now. (I was wondering about that. I was thinking that aluminum and steel have different thermal expansion rates and that the steel would probably be better [or more consistent] with the barrel. Is that why you say to go with steel and not aluminum?)

I haven't heard anything about JP barrels being finicky with ammo. I don't reload .223 (yet), but I'm sure I will someday. Right now, I use Hornady Match, .223 Rem, 75 gr, BTHP for any distance/accuracy with a 1:7 twist Wilson barrel. Will that be an issue with a JP barrel?

Which JP muzzle device are you referring to? The Recoil Eliminator ("tank brake") or Large Profile Tactical Compensator? (I assume you were referring to the Recoil Eliminator, but I just want to be sure.)

Now I'm leaning towards getting the heat sink...

Thanks for your help.

[Jaxshooter]

I have a heat sink on my JP CTR-02 and it makes a difference. Shootig in the heat in Florida some guns get so hot you can hardly handle them if they have an aluminum free float tube. My JP does not get hot and it seems to cool down faster than my other guns with no heat sink.

I also have a Sabre Defense 18" Competition upper with the fluted 1/8 twist barrel on a DPMS lower. This is an extremely accurate upper and a good choice if you decide not to build the upper. The only change I made to this upper was the comp.

[PerfectDouble]

I have a heat sink on my JP CTR-02 and it makes a difference. Shootig in the heat in Florida some guns get so hot you can hardly handle them if they have an aluminum free float tube. My JP does not get hot and it seems to cool down faster than my other guns with no heat sink.

I also have a Sabre Defense 18" Competition upper with the fluted 1/8 twist barrel on a DPMS lower. This is an extremely accurate upper and a good choice if you decide not to build the upper. The only change I made to this upper was the comp.

Thanks.

Yeah, I'm in the South too and heat's an issue here as well.

I've heard really good things about Sabre Defense (both here and elsewhere).

I'm honestly surprised by the support for the heat sink. Jim thought that it was unnecessary weight, but suggested I ask shooters on this forum for their opinions. I find it really ironic that members of his own shooting team have a completely different opinion! Shooting in an environment where heat is such an issue, I think I'll go with one. As I said before, I can always remove it later...

[MarkCO]

Is that why you say to go with steel and not aluminum?)

I haven't heard anything about JP barrels being finicky with ammo. I don't reload .223 (yet), but I'm sure I will someday. Right now, I use Hornady Match, .223 Rem, 75 gr, BTHP for any distance/accuracy with a 1:7 twist Wilson barrel. Will that be an issue with a JP barrel?

Which JP muzzle device are you referring to? The Recoil Eliminator ("tank brake") or Large Profile Tactical Compensator? (I assume you were referring to the Recoil Eliminator, but I just want to be sure.)

Yes, the thermal expansion AND the erosion that occurs over the long haul with Aluminum.

Your Hornady Match will run perfect in the JP barrel. JP barrels are not "finicky" but you have to have everything right with the ammo. They are not tolerant of slightly out of spec ammo.

Yes, the tank brake from JP. IMHO (and I have taken Master's level coursework on high-speed, high-temperature gas dynamics) this design is better than the others. The high presure port, to be the most effective, needs to be small, and IN the bore dimaeter, not above or after the first expansion chamber. The holes on the top of the JP Tactial comps are not high pressure ports, regardless of how they are labeled. Most of our comps are trial and error, and they are mostly pretty close, but there are many with extra machining, baffles and ports that have no real benefit. While John and Jim have forgoten more about rifles than I'll ever know, the tank brake with a true high pressure port drilled into the top and slightly clocked before the expanion chamber, will be the best available on the current market. Jim will be able to drill a small hole for you to gain the desired effect, if you wish.