Reloading nickle cases

[BLUTO]

So before I catch grief, I tried searching and put the question in the BEginners section as Im sure this is a DUMB question.

"We've" got about 10K of Starline nickle 38SC pieces and apparently are missing something.

First load all good.

Second loading MASSIVE scratching from the sizing die.

Take the puppy out and buff like crazy - reinstall.

Maybe 3 more cases and again massive scratches.

Folks thought I was nuts until we loaded, shot and they took the cases home and tried reloading on their machines. Same thing.

So now there are at least 3 of us wondering what the h*ll were missing.

My set up is tumbler, then light silicone lube (cant say what) then into a "stock" Dillon 38S sizer.

Doesnt matter whos gun we fire from - thinking it was grossly oversized chamber.

So whats the deal? What did I/we do wrong here?

zForgot to mention this does NOT happen on brass brass.....

Gracias in advance...........

Edited December 17, 2010 by domfort

[GrumpyOne]

Post pics of the scratches?

[BLUTO]

I thought it was the die at first. Bought a second (Lee) and within 3 cases same thing - if it matters

[Jay870]

Explanation I have heard in the past is small pieces of nickel flaking of and "contaminating" the die.

[GrumpyOne]

Wow! Those are some scratches! I've loaded quite a bit of Remington nickle brass in 38S, and never had that happen. Using Dillon dies.

Edit to add: Did some research real quick, and it seems to be a common problem with STEEL dies, but not CARBIDE dies. Are you using steel or carbide?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50737

http://www.pistolworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3085

Edited December 17, 2010 by GrumpyOne

[BLUTO]

Well I assume the Dillons are carbide..........

[G-ManBart]

Hmmm...I've got about 6K of Starline nickel 38SC that are on their third loading and have never seen those sorts of marks.

[BLUTO]

Yeah like I said, just wondering what Im doing wrong........

[GrumpyOne]

Well I assume the Dillons are carbide..........

Never assume....Like I said, I have loaded a bunch of nickle Remmy brass, many times over, and no scratches, but I'm SURE I'm using carbide dies.

[ima45dv8]

Do the scratched-up reloads run in your gun?

[GrumpyOne]

Do the scratched-up reloads run in your gun?

That is an excellent question......

[BLUTO]

They seem to run but Im hesitant to run them in anything other than practice.....

[Bob DuBois]

What type media are you using?

Have you pulled the sizer apart to see if there's foreign material in the die that could cause the problem?

Might try a case lubricant instead of silicone spray, had good luck with Dillon lubricant.

Maybe bad plating, have you tried another batch number or brand of plated brass?

I've never had this type of problem tumbling in corn cob media and brasso, lubing with Dillon lube and using Dillon or Lee U dies and mixed head stamp cases, it will be interesting to find the cause.

[GrumpyOne]

What type media are you using?

Have you pulled the sizer apart to see if there's foreign material in the die that could cause the problem?

Might try a case lubricant instead of silicone spray, had good luck with Dillon lubricant.

Maybe bad plating, have you tried another batch number or brand of plated brass?

I've never had this type of problem tumbling in corn cob media and brasso, lubing with Dillon lube and using Dillon or Lee U dies and mixed head stamp cases, it will be interesting to find the cause.

See, that's kind of weird. I tumbled the 38S nickle in walnut, no polish, and then loaded them with no lube. No scratches for me. I'm thinking he has steel dies, and the nickle is flaking off..

He says it does it after the 3rd case, even after cleaning the die.

[z40acp]

I have had this happen with .357 and .38 spec. before even with a carbide die. Maybe it is the brass? Call Starline and see what they recommend. You also might try lubing the cases with Hornady's case lube spray.

[GOF]

Walnut tumbling media does add a little slick feel... natural oils in the walnut hulls themselves. As for nickle plated brass, I have had no problems with Speer or Federal in any calibers I load for (9mm, .45, .38 Spl). I have had problems with .38 Spl nickle brass from Win and Rem. None made it through the third reseizing without splitting, and many split on the first resizing. I don't even bother to load those anymore, even once fired factory stuff. Whatever plating process Win & Rem are using seems to work hardend the brass and make it very brittle.

GOF

[Zerwas]

I would first check to see if the Dillon dies are carbide vs steel. How old are the dies? Have you had them since new or did you buy them used?

I have also loaded up several thousand nickel cases (which are my preferred major match type loads) and I have had no problems with that type of scratching from my dies.

I'd bet that is what the problem is.

Good luck!

[Bello]

maybe its your lube? did you try a differant lube? or even try no lube at all? but im going with steel dies as you apparently know to lube them?!?

[z40acp]

Like others have said, I think Dillon pistol sizing dies have always been carbide.

[BLUTO]

I appreciate the responses here.

The dies are carbide. We (several folks) took the additional step of using Lee, Lyman, and RCBS dies as well as a Dillon sizing dies and all had the same results.

We have taken new unfired brass loaded sub-minor to ensure the cases are not stressed and shot them in various pistols to check for some anomaly in chambers. After cleaning them by hand and inspecting with magnification tried to re-size them - ALL produced the same results.

I'm of the opinion that the batch of nickel we received is flawed in some way. Monday I will be forwarding to Starline the concern and hopefully there is something that can be done other than using what we have for "drop and leave" matches.

[evild]

IS it all the same lot number brass? I've reloaded thousands of different calibre rounds over the years and have never seen that happen. I'm guessing bad plating.

[Erik S.]

I agree with everyone else here that it is either the lube (perhaps degrading the nickle and causing it to flake off) or something in the dies. Since (or if) they are carbide, no lube is necessary. I would take your die apart AGAIN, clean it out with denatured alcohol to remove ANY foreign material/lube, clean a few cases in a tub of denatured alcohol and run some through...obviously more than 3 so you can tell if it's still scratching.

This process should remove ANY doubt whether it is a lube or foreign material problem (such as tumbling residue). I've had that jeweler's rouge scratch cases like that when it gets in my dies. I use lee carbide dies in my dillon 550.

Also, how much effort is it taking you to size them. with carbide and straight cases, there should be little effort required to run them through the sizer.

I also doubt it's a chamber issue.

Let us know when you've eliminated a few more variables and narrowed it down to either the brass or die.

-Erik