Swap or not reload with sPeedloaders?

[steel1212]

So swap or weak hand reload? I tried swapping with my 625 and kept pinching the crap out of my left index finger closing the cylinder

[Merlin Orr]

I seem to be smoother with the swap hand method. Pinched myself a few times but figured it out and have now gone a long time between blood blisters...

[John Z Sr]

I switch hands, but some can do it the other way, practice both and do what works.

[lugnut]

I do strong hand reloads. Maybe I could be faster with weak hand reloads but I don't have the time to put into it and it doesn't seem to work well enough for me anyway.

[MrBorland]

Swap and do a strong hand reload. I personally think a weak hand speedloader reload puts too much stress on an unsupported crane/cylinder. The crane screw/plunger is the only thing keeping the whole assembly in the gun, and when that little bitty plunger bends enough, you'll have trouble.

I tried swapping with my 625 and kept pinching the crap out of my left index finger closing the cylinder

Are you pinch-closing the cylinder with your thumb and index finger then raising the gun? If so, you're not just pinching the crap out of your index finger, you're also wasting time. As soon as you re-establish your strong hand grip, get your index finger out of there and push the cylinder closed with the butt of your left thumb as you raise the gun. Close and up, rather than close then up. As soon as the cylinder is closed, your weak hand slides to its support position, your sights are aligned, and bang. Works for me.

Tom

[steel1212]

Thanks Tom.

[Carmoney]

I dunno about that. Bubber, the true master of the speedloader reload, keeps the gun in his strong hand the whole time. And he's fast.

If you're really worried about shoving the cylinder assembly off the gun, you can always rebuild the yoke screw in a way that removes the spring plunger retention set-up and gives it a hard lock-up.

[lugnut]

If you're really worried about shoving the cylinder assembly off the gun, you can always rebuild the yoke screw in a way that removes the spring plunger retention set-up and gives it a hard lock-up.

I know a guy that had this happen twice. Any hints on how you do this? I wouldn't mind having that insurance!

[Carmoney]

Pull the plunger out of the yoke screw and remove the spring. Install a pin behind the plunger that is sized to the correct length.

That's it.

Now--that said--in my opinion, this measure is not necessary for most people. Let's be honest here--if you're ramming and jamming things so drastically with your reloads that you're driving the cylinder off the gun on any kind of regular basis, instead of changing the yoke screw you might want to seriously rethink your reload technique and execution.

[nashvillebill]

I usually load weak hand, but I practice both. You will eventually, if not this week, need to do a RWR, which for me goes way better dumping the rounds in my strong hand.

[robot]

I've switched to a Weak hand reload and found that it's much smoother and faster. It also keeps my strong hand, mostly, in the same place on the gun. Grip doesn't change much so I only have to do minor adjustments to get the right grip again.

The only problem with it is, if you practice or dry-fire reload with that technique, your strong hand wrist will wear out more because the gun spends most of it's time on that hand. My wrist wore out and hurt like crap for two weeks. It's still healing.

[MrBorland]

Let's be honest here--if you're ramming and jamming things so drastically with your reloads that you're driving the cylinder off the gun on any kind of regular basis, instead of changing the yoke screw you might want to seriously rethink your reload technique and execution.

Agreed - sorta.

The ramming & jamming is one reason why I don't whack the ejector rod with my palm to insure a clean ejection, as it surely leads to a bent plunger.

That said, the crane/plunger design seems to me to be one of the weak links in the S&W design, and, as a result of this design, I suspect lateral wear on the plunger is inevitable & cumulative. Ramming and jamming can accelerate it radically, but I suspect if you pull the screw on most S&W competition revolvers (speedloader-fed guns especially), you'll see some degree of bending.

Tom

[steel1212]

Guess I'll have to get my speed loaders first and just time it.

[Forrest Halley]

Practice both. They have their uses....especially when and if you get to the far weak side of your belt. Generally speaking the swap should be faster. There is virtually no time lost to the weak hand reload in the transfer to the weak hand and if you are punching out the empties as you are drawing the fresh shells from the holder you've made up time on the weak hand reload. The only real problem is regaining a consistant shooting grip after the recharge of the cylinder. I figure if Jerry Miculek GM, Elliot Aysen GM, and Matt Griffin(a lefty GM) all swap....it's gotta be the fastest way. All this being said you need to have stock that is conducive to the swap reload. Some of the super grippy rubber ones stick to the hand and do not allow easy entry and exit from the shooting grip. I personally choose the weakhand reload here because re-establishing a consistant shooting grip is difficult and you may find yourself still trying to accomplish this after the cylinder is fully closed.

YMMV I just shoot a little and think a lot.

Forrest

[Carmoney]

I figure if Jerry Miculek GM, Elliot Aysen GM, and Matt Griffin(a lefty GM) all swap....it's gotta be the fastest way.

For every high-level revolver shooter who does it one way, there's a high-level shooter doing it the other. If you've ever watched Dan Carden or Bjorn Dietrich hit a good reload, you'll see that keeping the gun in the strong hand can be extremely fast also.

I have used both methods personally, and am pretty well convinced that they are just about equally fast. The big advantage of the weak-hand reload is that the muzzle tends to stay in much better control, and the chance of breaking the 180 (either horizontal or vertical) is substantially reduced. This is a serious issue. Watch some of the top guys do the switch-hands version (including Jerry), and you'll see them come precariously close to the 180 line, particularly when moving to the left. I've witnessed two revolver shooters get DQ'd for this exact infraction at major matches, and I've seen a bunch more that probably should have been.

Just sayin'....

[John Z Sr]

I figure if Jerry Miculek GM, Elliot Aysen GM, and Matt Griffin(a lefty GM) all swap....it's gotta be the fastest way.

For every high-level revolver shooter who does it one way, there's a high-level shooter doing it the other. If you've ever watched Dan Carden or Bjorn Dietrich hit a good reload, you'll see that keeping the gun in the strong hand can be extremely fast also.

I have used both methods personally, and am pretty well convinced that they are just about equally fast. The big advantage of the weak-hand reload is that the muzzle tends to stay in much better control, and the chance of breaking the 180 (either horizontal or vertical) is substantially reduced. This is a serious issue. Watch some of the top guys do the switch-hands version (including Jerry), and you'll see them come precariously close to the 180 line, particularly when moving to the left. I've witnessed two revolver shooters get DQ'd for this exact infraction at major matches, and I've seen a bunch more that probably should have been.

Just sayin'....

Good point, watch the muzzle on the reloads !!!!!!!!!!!!

[R112mercer]

Here's a couple of points:

-I use a strong hand on speed loader reload, with speed loaders. With moons I keep the gun in the strong hand and feed the moon with the weak hand.

-Gun in weak hand, strong hand grabbing the reload seems faster when reaching for a reload, any reload, from a table.

-I get called for sweeping constantly when I reload with my weak hand (625). The RO will claim I swept my legs when the gun pointed down. I've never been DQ'ed for it (yet...) and if I ever was I'd arb it. Mostly it's RO's who don't "speak revolver", after all it's an empty gun with the cylinder out pointing in the vicinity of my feet. I usually just brush it off.

-Mike mentioned Bubber is hot s$%t (and he is) with a weak hand speedloader reload. I just wanted to spell out how he does it. Firstly he has "cut back" speedloaders, which is a good idea no matter what kind of speedloader reload you do. Secondly, he grasps the speedloader by the round portion immediately behind the rounds, NOT the "handle" with the spring in it. I've tried this and it gives better aim with the speedloader and does not require as much pressure to activate the speedloader, esp. if the loader was cut back.

-Info on "cut back" speedloaders is on the forum, but in brief it involves using a dremel to remove about half the large round area that the rounds go into. You cut in from the side towards the center post, without cutting the center post. This exposes the post more and allows it to activate without the excess plastic hanging up on the gun.

[Forrest Halley]

Carmoney makes a great point that I forgot to mention. Muzzle during movement. It almost happened to me at an ICORE match...I heard through the electro muffs a spectator say isnt his muzzle a little close...and rolled to my right and completed my reload.

In addition I left out that the weakhanded reload may indeed by factor to get back on target if all reloads are standing...as in an extended steel event or pin shooting. I find the shooting grip being un broken allows the gun to be brought back on target faster for subsequent shots.

Thoughts Mike and John?

I'll have to try that with the speed loaders. I have been strong hand stabbing due to Idpas position requirements. I run moons in uspsa and icore. Seems rather self evident on re-examining my moonclip grasp. Thanks.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Forrest Halley

[eisenhow]

I know a guy that had this happen twice. Any hints on how you do this? I wouldn't mind having that insurance!

Have you watched him windup before he slams his palm into the speed loader? I have I only have a faint line in the finish of my 686SSR yoke (Knock on wood) with ~3k rounds through it.

[Forrest Halley]

Pull the plunger out of the yoke screw and remove the spring. Install a pin behind the plunger that is sized to the correct length.

That's it.

Now--that said--in my opinion, this measure is not necessary for most people. Let's be honest here--if you're ramming and jamming things so drastically with your reloads that you're driving the cylinder off the gun on any kind of regular basis, instead of changing the yoke screw you might want to seriously rethink your reload technique and execution.

Thanks for tthe tip Mike, I am afraid I will need it one day with my 625-2 it's a hard pin gun and rumor has it that screw isnt made anymore?

[lugnut]

Pull the plunger out of the yoke screw and remove the spring. Install a pin behind the plunger that is sized to the correct length.

That's it.

Thanks for the idea. However- I thought that the reason S&W went to the spring/plunger combo was so they didn't have to fit the screw to each yolk/gun? I guess the correct length would be the max length that doesn't bind in the yolk grove? Thanks again.

[Bubber]

On the issue of pushing the cylinder out of the frame. I have gorrila hands and I am very aggressive in my reloads. With my N frame 627 I will push the cylinder out with brand new retaining screw tightened all the way down, with the L frames it is not as likely to happen. I think it has something to do with the the less area of the cylinder transfering the pressure to the spring and pin. I believe Lugnut is correct on the resonning behind the new design, so as not needing to fit the screw to the yoke. One other item I have seen is the screw loosening up during a match so be sure to locktite it when you get it set. We now have the winter months to practice our speedloading and come up with some different methods that may be fster and better. Don't forget to share your findings. latare rdd

[gcambi]

ressurecting a few month old topic................

I haven't used speedloaders in years, but i think training the left hand to use one could be tough. That said, i keep my revo in the right hand for reloads w/ moonclips, hit the cylinder release with my right thumb, push out the cylinder w/ my right index finger, dump the empties w/ the left palm, reload left handed, close the cylinder with the left palm (frequently pinching some fat in some portion of the machine), and get back on target.

i have also pushed a cylinder out of the gun on more than one occasion..............if you play w/ wheelguns long enough, you will experience almost every sort of malfunction there is (operator error or lack of preparation being the primary cause in my case)

[M1911]

I had been using a strong-hand reload. I found that I had several problems with it. First, I often had a portion of the gun beneath the cylinder while emptying the cylinder, which would cause cartridges to hang up. Fixing that requires me to hold the gun in an awkward cant of my left wrist, or risk breaking the 180. Second, I have a hard time getting a repeatable grip on the revolver after the reload. Third, I end up with large changes in the muzzle direction (nearly straight up, nearly straight down) and that seems to slow my transition back to the target.

After watching a video from Bubber (thanks, Bubber!), I decided to try using a weak-hand reload. That seems to be working better for me. The muzzle isn't moving around as much and I'm not getting cartridge hangups as frequently. The only issue that I'm having is that I when I grip the gun initially, I have a very high grip, and I have a hard time maintaining that during the reload -- my grip seems to migrate downwards during the reload.

[Forrest Halley]

ressurecting a few month old topic................

I haven't used speedloaders in years, but i think training the left hand to use one could be tough. That said, i keep my revo in the right hand for reloads w/ moonclips, hit the cylinder release with my right thumb, push out the cylinder w/ my right index finger, dump the empties w/ the left palm, reload left handed, close the cylinder with the left palm (frequently pinching some fat in some portion of the machine), and get back on target.

i have also pushed a cylinder out of the gun on more than one occasion..............if you play w/ wheelguns long enough, you will experience almost every sort of malfunction there is (operator error or lack of preparation being the primary cause in my case)

Proper maintenance includes checking the screws for tightness before the match. The cylinder retaining screw or whatever it's proper name is has evolved from a solid screw into a hollow screw with a spring assisted pointy follower that runs out into the groove of the crane. This is notorious for coming loose during dryfire or extensive use. I use loctite BLUE the removable kind on my guns to prevent this. You should not have this problem regularly and if so your screw should be removed and inspected for decent spring tension/damage.