Talk me out of the 650

[RangerTrace]

I purchased a 650 from Brian a few months back as my first press. A good friend and very experience reloaded, set it up for me and since then I've loaded about 3K rounds without any issues. I'm sure something will eventually break and cause a lot of head scratching, but for now, I am extremely satisfied with the purchase

[IceDevil]

As the OP of this thread I thought it only fair to share my thoughts for anyone else considering the same choices. After reading all the responses and surfing the forums for too many hours this wknd, I am leaning towards the 550. I don't know any 650 users that live close by to help set-up (any 650 experts in Los Angeles volunteering?)or that I can call to pop over and help me fix my rookie mistakes (or help me change my underwear after blowing up a tube of primers on the 650! Those threads were pretty scary for a newbie). I am also beginning to think that for the amount that I will load the ratio of set-up hassles and tweaking time to actual loading will be out of whack (to put it another way, the set-up and tweaking time of a more complicated machine will have less loading to be "amortized" over). In short, simplicity (and hopefully consistency) is winning out over top production speed.

After watching some youtube videos, it looks like the 550 can get moving pretty fast and I will eventually be able to produce my monthly requirements in less than an hour per week. With two little kids, I don't see my requirements jumping up too much in the near future since I can't get to the range more than the 2-3x/mo I do now. If that ever changes, I think I have some good options: 1) add case feeder to 550, 2) sell the 550 and upgrade to the 650 (I assume I could use the feeder from the 550 and not have to buy another), or 3) keep the 550 for .45 and .223 and add a 650 for high volume 9mm. The resale value of the used 550's that I've seen on ebay recently makes me less concerned about outgrowing the 550.

I am still in the process of building my bench and setting up my reloading space, so I have at least a few more weeks to waffle and change my mind before ordering. I have to admit that the siren song of being able to load a months worth of ammo in an hour on the 650 is hard to fully dismiss. The good news is that if I go w/the 550, I don't think I will have to worry about Brian trying to upsell me when I call in the order. Either way, I have 5k primers and 4lb of powder in my garage and an impending price increase from Dillon telling me to just make a decision and get to reloading.

Again thanks for everyone's feedback. I hope Dillon appreciates how big a selling point this forum and all its participants are in comparing Dillon against its competition.

[M-Bear]

When I bought my 550 several years ago it was all the money I wanted to spend on a press. I don’t think the question should be a 550 or a 650. It should be a LNL ap versus a 650. With the LNL you can upgrade and make it the equivalent of a 650. With the 550 your just there. I honestly wish I had gone with the LNL then I would just be buying a case feeder instead of another press.

If money isn’t an object go with the 650. Otherwise in a couple of years you will be selling off your 550 stuff at a loss to buy your 650.

[benos]

Sometimes the "if the money isn't and object get the 650" thing is accurate, but sometimes it isn't. Say you'll load a couple thousand rounds a month, in one, maybe two calibers, then the 650 would be good for that scenario. But often I'll get the guy who's never reloaded, and needs everything required to load for 4 calibers - 2 pistol and 2 rifle - and, he only shoots about 1000 - 1500 rounds a month, in all 4 calibers. In that case the "spend more money and get a 'better' press" doesn't apply. Guy/example #2 will spend more time changing calibers and fiddling with the 650 than he will be loading ammo.

IMO every 550 vs 650 scenario should be decided on a case by case basis.

be

[GForceLizard]

If you have accurately described your need then you should be listening to what Brian says. It's not just about the difference in price. If you were loading high volumes of 9mm then maybe the 650 would be better. But with switching between multiple gun/rifle calibers and the volumes you need to load then the 550 is a better platform. Just my 2 cents.

Edited November 23, 2010 by GForceLizard

[Foxbat]

But with switching between multiple gun/rifle calibers and the volumes you need to load then the 550 is a better platform.

Could you elaborate why? I know the conversion cost is somewhat lower - what else?

[euxx]

I heard few times that 550 is more manual then 650. Been using 550 for a while and closely looked at 650, the only difference is that 650 gives automatic indexing between stages, so you don't have to manually turn the turret. That should speed up the loading process a little, but can also increase chances for mistake, e.g. can stroke the press twice and produce a round without the powder (squib). Can someone elaborate on where is an additional complexity in 650?

I am thinking of moving from 550 to 650, but mainly because I want to get a bullet feeder and get to 600..800 rounds per hour loading rate.

[IceDevil]

If you have accurately described your need then you should be listening to what Brian says. It's not just about the difference in price. If you were loading high volumes of 9mm then maybe the 650 would be better. But with switching between multiple gun/rifle calibers and the volumes you need to load then the 550 is a better platform. Just my 2 cents.

Since I currently shoot 98% 9mm, if you take the caliber change convenience/cost out of the equation and assume that I am looking to load 1k/mo of a single caliber and can afford both the 650 and 550 does your recommendation change?

[Foxbat]

Since I currently shoot 98% 9mm, if you take the caliber change convenience/cost out of the equation and assume that I am looking to load 1k/mo of a single caliber and can afford both the 650 and 550 does your recommendation change?

In that particular case I would without any reservations recommend the 650 with the case feeder.

I am still honestly curious why some people would consider the 550 a preferable model in some cases.

[TAP]

If you have accurately described your need then you should be listening to what Brian says. It's not just about the difference in price. If you were loading high volumes of 9mm then maybe the 650 would be better. But with switching between multiple gun/rifle calibers and the volumes you need to load then the 550 is a better platform. Just my 2 cents.

Since I currently shoot 98% 9mm, if you take the caliber change convenience/cost out of the equation and assume that I am looking to load 1k/mo of a single caliber and can afford both the 650 and 550 does your recommendation change?

I'm in a similar situation to you since I only load about 1k of 9mm a month. I have one small child and one on the way so my free time is limited. I went with the 550 a year ago. If I were to do it again, I would get the 650 with a case feeder. For me, time is more important than cost at this point in my life.

[benos]

Since I currently shoot 98% 9mm, if you take the caliber change convenience/cost out of the equation and assume that I am looking to load 1k/mo of a single caliber and can afford both the 650 and 550 does your recommendation change?

In that particular case I would without any reservations recommend the 650 with the case feeder.

I am still honestly curious why some people would consider the 550 a preferable model in some cases.

For the Guy 2 scenario in my post above. He's not loading 1-2000 rounds between caliber changes. Instead he's loading his months worth of ammo for 2 pistol and 2 rifle calibers every month. Or in other words, he's changing calibers every few hundred rounds, four times a month.

[benos]

Since I currently shoot 98% 9mm, if you take the caliber change convenience/cost out of the equation and assume that I am looking to load 1k/mo of a single caliber and can afford both the 650 and 550 does your recommendation change?

In that particular case I would without any reservations recommend the 650 with the case feeder.

If that will be your scenario a few years from now, then I'd agree too.

be

[MarkCO]

I started at 21 with a Rockchucker and then went to a Lee Pro1000. After several years I bought a 650 from Brian and have been very happy with it. If you want to read my first impressions: http://dfuse.us/loading.html

I don't agree that caliber changes on the 650 are hard. I can do one in about 2 minutes if the primer system is not changed. About 3 minutes more to change the primer system. However, the cost is also higher as I have complete tool heads for most calibers, and about half with powder measures. I've loaded thousands of rounds on 550s and 1050s and I really prefer the 650 overall.

[bugsbear]

i load 40 s&w on the 650 with a case feeder. 9mm and 45acp is loaded on the 550.

last night i loaded some 45 acp. if i had a case feeder on the 550, which is probably coming for christmas, i believe my production would be as fast, if not faster than the 650! i am grabbing a bullet as the right hand is pulling the handle down. as i seat the primer, i have my hand on the shellplate arm ready to move it forward. i move the shelplate and place the bullet as my right hand is lowering the arm. i realy don't think there is a time advantage to the auto advance!

the 650 does provide a fifth hole to allow you to install a powder checker. however, i "always" check the powder in the case also. you can never be too safe reloading. this is one of the 650 negatives. even though i have a magnifying glass light, the location of the shellplate makes it harder to see the powder on the 650 than on th 550. i consider his another advantage to the 550.

the biggest advantage to the 550, especially for a newbie, is the lack of an auto advance. if you have an "issue", it is easier to deal with on the 550. an example is speer 45 acp cases. some have small primer pockets. as you go to seat the primer, you realize one of these cases has shown up! (i don't separate cases). with the 650, you have to remove the case, advance without a case and a primer drops into the catch arm to be used later. with the 550, you simply remove the case and insert another one. if you don't have a case, you end up with an empty station, but the primer stays in place.

primer system is another 550 advantage. you can see the primers as they load on the 550. with the 650, you don't see the primers, don't know when they run out and don't know when they start! if you have a wrong side up primer with the 650, you don't know about it until you chamber check; everyone chamber checks right!

another advantage of the 550 over the 650 is changing from small to large primers. it is a few minute job. the 650 is more complicated and takes double the time.

these comments are worth what you paid for them. i have probably shown my lack of experience, but thought i would pass it along. i have only been reloading for a few years and only 100,000 or so reloads.

either machine will be good. it is simply a matter of choosing between to machines that do an excellent job.

good luck.

nels

[planenut]

I got my 650 without the casefeeder from be and enjoy it! I read the manual before it arrived (twice) and once it arrived set it up and loaded about 100 rounds the same day. I had a friend teach me the basics on his Square deal and had loaded several hundred rounds on it in the prior month.

I'm sure I'll add the casefeeder some day but like being able to only add bullets and keep my hand on the handle.

[Bello]

why? i have two of them now

[duct tape]

Just came up from the basement, from loading on my 550. I'd sure like to know how some are getting 4 - 500 rounds per hour. B/w reloading primer tubes, adding bullets and brass prn, measuring the occasional powder load or the COAL, I'm getting about 250 per hour. Even if everythings all set and there are no loading issues, realistically a load every 10 sec is pretty good for me, that's 360 per hour.

[IceDevil]

I started the original post and am back to close this one out. All the responses were greatly appreciated and helpful in making my decision. In the end I was talked out of the 650 and decided to go with the 550, which I just ordered from Brian. I actually think this decision goes against the majority of the advice in this thread (although it was a close call), but in the end I think it's the right decision for my needs. With two little kids I don't see myself increasing my production needs in the near future (unfortuantely if anything it is more likely to go down) and the 550 seems capable of doing my 600-1000/month in 3-4 hrs. The 650 with casefeeder costs 70% more than the 550 and it seemed like overkill in cost and complication for my needs. As someone without any reloading experience, the manual indexing and simplicity of the 550 were big selling points. It may be that some day I find the manual indexing to be a hassle, but the nice thing about Dillon is that the resale value is so high. Even if I load for 6 mos or a year and decide I want to upgrade to a 650, it looks like I could sell the 550 for 75-90% of what I paid. When you factor in the cost savings on the ammo produced in that time period, it is essentially like selling without a loss. This makes it pretty hard to go wrong with a Dillon purchase.

One other twist that weighed on my decision was the Hornady LNL. They offer a lot of machine for the money (basically you get 650 features for the price of a 550) and the ability to add case and bullet feeders later was very tempting. In the end, the huge support base of Dillon users (particularly on this forum), the long track record and the simplicity of the 550 and some reports of the LNL's requiring a lot tweaking on initial set-up pushed me to the 550. Not trying to start a debate on red vs. blue or disrespect our host (who has given me very good service so far!), but I thought it was worth mentioning since it definitely factored into my decision.

With any luck, the 550 should be here before x-mas and I'll be loading next week. Maybe I'll come back here once I've had a chance to load 5,000 rounds and report on whether I think I made the right decision. Thanks again for everyone's input. We'll see how many times I'm back in the next couple of weeks with dumb set-up questions.

[benos]

Thanks for the follow up and the closing post.

be

[Notar]

Congrats on the 550, I don't see how buying a 550 EVER could be a bad thing. In the future, if you need a 650, having both the 550 and 650 can be a good thing. I'd bet most action shooters never stop buying gear.

The only thing you need now is a mentor, 30 minutes with a reloading shooting buddy can save you hours of frustration. Do you live in Northern Utah? I work for Pizza and the heavy stuff(Dt. Coke w/lime).

I've had a 550 for almost 20 years, I don't think I'll ever sell it. I've had 650's and 1050's, they all will make good rounds. Currently I'm 650 less, but the 1050's are picking up the slack

Shooting steel is lots of fun, enjoy

[silvercorvette]

Even though I posted a thread about having issues about the FN 5.7 and the 650 I still love the machine. Most people will recommend a single stage for a first timer but I ignored the advice and got the 650 as my first press. I don't think it will be difficult for a first timer to learn on if they take their time.

I believe that sometimes people are too focused on how many rounds that can crank out in an hour. I took pride in the fact that I was probably the slowest person to ever reload on a 650.

Go slowly double triple and quadruple check your ammo. Concentrate on quality and the speed will eventually follow. I never looked at the clock while reloading but after i finished a couple dozen rounds I checked the clock and it was a real low rounds per hour count.

You can always get a single stage if you want one, a lot of people wind up buying a single stage after they buy a progressive. But I know the way my personality is and if I spend a lot of time on my machine without having much ammo to show for my time I will loose interest. When you are learning there is so much going on it is so fascinating to watch but after a while you are going to want to see and increase. With the 650 or any progressive it is easy to pick your speed, but with a single stage you can pick up the pace a little bit but it can't touch the speed of a 650. Another advantage with the 650 for a new reloader is the 5th station which will allow you to add a powder check Also don't forget that dillon is a great company that supports their product, and there are many people here to help you.

I think it may be a good idea to go to utube and watch people operate the 550 and the 650 it will give you an idea of how the 2 machines operate and the advantages of one over the other.

PS I ordered another machine from a competitor and I really would like to keep the Dillon and have 2 machines but it may be necessary to sell the Dillon, if the machine does get put up for sale it isn't a matter of being unhappy with the 650 it will be a matter of affording 2 machines.

There is the option of getting the 550 but I personally would rather have a press with auto indexing.

I have no first hand knowledge of the 550 but I saw a video of a person using one and it seemed to me that you need 3 hands to operate it.

By the way a 650 with a case feeder is a pleasure to operate, it makes reloading so much fun that you almost want to shoot a lot more so that you can load more ammo

[benos]

I have no first hand knowledge of the 550 but I saw a video of a person using one and it seemed to me that you need 3 hands to operate it.

Not at all. Speed on a 550 is a matter of "one hand doing one thing while the other is doing something else." While your right hand is operating the handle, the left hand picks up the bullet for the next round. Then while your right hand is putting the next case in the Shellplate, the left hand indexes the Shellplate and sets the bullet on the case. The index and set the bullet on happens quicker than the right hand can get a the next case in the Shellplate, so the fact the press does not auto index does not add any time to a loading cycle. Back in the day I could load 700+ rounds/hour on a 550. Once you get into the rhythm you can really roll the rounds out of a 550.

be

[Bello]

welcome to the "BLUE KOOL AID" tastes good dont it ahahhaha