Iggy42 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 So I am really trying to break into Limited for USPSA so I have been checking out various guns and one thing that I am noticing is that they seem to be built with polymer frames. While I assume this is done to save weight I have never liked the feel of polymer frames, so I have been wondering if anyone is doing steel frames. I have seen pictures of EAA guns and they appear to be what I am looking for, but are they any good? The Witness Elite Limited seems to have it all ready to go out of the box, but would I have to turn around and have more work done on it to get it running properly? I know the EAA and the CZ are very similar, but I am a big fan of SS/hardchrome hence my attraction to the EAA. I did read a review someone had here of an EAA Witness, but it was two years old so I do not know how accurate that is these days. If there is anything I am missing please let me know. Also if anyone in the Harpers Ferry WV area has one that I can try out that would be even better. After all I may like the appearance but I don't like the feel in the hand its pointless to buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDB Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Another option for a steel frame. There are a few guys that are "alright" using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Caspian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 STI has an aluminum grip for the 2011 and SVI has a steel grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 You can have a custom gun built on a Caspian steel frame. I am sure considering that instead of putting a metal grip on my ST/SV guns. No chance of the grip cracking and certainly eaiser to tear the gun down for major cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny7 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Para-ordnance:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Caspian... 3 guessessss who built that one--nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 3 guessessss who built that one--nice Not me. That was the first one that came up on google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Now that you can buy magazines with a reasonable capacity from Caspian, I'd look at their hi-cap frame. If I was starting out from scratch, and wanted a steel framed gun, that's what I'd get now. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818-DVC Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 What polymer framed guns have you shot? CZ is an option. It's a different animal than a 1911, but have proved to be a contender in all disciplines of ipsc & USPSA. There's a lot of parts now and plenty of good gunsmiths who can really make a CZ sing. If you are not sure what you really perform best with, it's best to try different guns to get a feel for what you like. Ask someone at a match to try their different guns. You'll know what's best for you the second after you pull the trigger. How big are your hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy42 Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) What polymer framed guns have you shot? CZ is an option. It's a different animal than a 1911, but have proved to be a contender in all disciplines of ipsc & USPSA. There's a lot of parts now and plenty of good gunsmiths who can really make a CZ sing. If you are not sure what you really perform best with, it's best to try different guns to get a feel for what you like. Ask someone at a match to try their different guns. You'll know what's best for you the second after you pull the trigger. How big are your hands? Only polymer I have actual trigger time with in a Smith and Wesson M&P40, but I have manhanded if you will Glocks (gen 3 and 4) and XD(m)'s. I just don't like the fell of polymer, and for me the weight of a steel gun (I currently shoot Single Stack)is reassuring. One thing that is actracting me to the EAA is the cost, but I have not seen anyone say anything in favor of them. All I have been seeing here is Caspian. Since I do not know what all goes into a custom build what would I be looking at price wise for a Caspian setup for limited. I have to admit the 1200ish MSRP from EAA is very appealing. At my local matches all I see have been S_I's and one or two Caspian single stacks, but no limited/double stack setups. Not really sure how to answer the how big my hands question, but if it helps aside from the polymer an XD(m) did fit my hand well. I said it in the OP and I will say it again, anyone in the Harpers Ferry/NOVA region using an EAA/CZ/Caspian double stack so I can see how in feel in the hand. Since its been mentioned a few times, any Caspian builders around? Every website I go to is S_I guns, yet to see a full on Caspian Edited November 5, 2010 by Iggy42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Para hicap pistols are great also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818-DVC Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Have you shot a 2011? If you like SS and the 1911, you will love a polymer gripped, steel frame 2011. I hear you on price, but if you are comfortable with 1911's the geometry is the same. As is a Caspian. As does Para. Para used to offer frame kits but I haven't seen them in a while. A para that has been through it's paces can be reliable, but they are infamous for their poor customer service, and they use cast frames & slides. The TJ P16-40 limited is a toss up. I could see myself building a para framed gun, because I'm from CA, & can use SV/STI mags. Springfield is licensing para's frames for their wide body guns. I can trust Springfield Armory factory pistols, and their custom shop guns are really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 STI w/ SV steel grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 What polymer framed guns have you shot? CZ is an option. It's a different animal than a 1911, but have proved to be a contender in all disciplines of ipsc & USPSA. There's a lot of parts now and plenty of good gunsmiths who can really make a CZ sing. If you are not sure what you really perform best with, it's best to try different guns to get a feel for what you like. Ask someone at a match to try their different guns. You'll know what's best for you the second after you pull the trigger. How big are your hands? Only polymer I have actual trigger time with in a Smith and Wesson M&P40, but I have manhanded if you will Glocks (gen 3 and 4) and XD(m)'s. I just don't like the fell of polymer, and for me the weight of a steel gun (I currently shoot Single Stack)is reassuring. One thing that is actracting me to the EAA is the cost, but I have not seen anyone say anything in favor of them. All I have been seeing here is Caspian. Since I do not know what all goes into a custom build what would I be looking at price wise for a Caspian setup for limited. I have to admit the 1200ish MSRP from EAA is very appealing. At my local matches all I see have been S_I's and one or two Caspian single stacks, but no limited/double stack setups. Not really sure how to answer the how big my hands question, but if it helps aside from the polymer an XD(m) did fit my hand well. I said it in the OP and I will say it again, anyone in the Harpers Ferry/NOVA region using an EAA/CZ/Caspian double stack so I can see how in feel in the hand. Since its been mentioned a few times, any Caspian builders around? Every website I go to is S_I guns, yet to see a full on Caspian Jim Joyce of jimjoycecustom.com in Princton WV. Done some great work for me on SS's and STI. He will build my next Caspian Hi-cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy42 Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Let me put it this way, my budget does not allow me to purchase a $2000 (well closer to $3000 looking at most prices) gun, nor am I interested in a polymer gripped gun (aka what I have seen for Limited from S_I) Yes I love the 1911 platform but since I have not seen anyone listing Caspian guns (people are telling me so and so is going to build them a Caspian gun, but I am yet to find a built one). That is why I brought up the EAA Witness Limited as the listed MSRP from EAA is doable in the near future. Sorry if I seem a bit....angry, but I have flat our stated that I am not interested in an STI/SV gun. Not that they don't make quality stuff, but the cost and the polymer takes it out of my ballpark. So who is building Caspians these days and do they show them on the website (yes I know its trial to a point, but if I don't like what I see then why buy?) Are EAA's any good or do they just look pretty? Does anyone have/build a decent "starter" limited gun that is in the EAA price range? (and for God's sakes no polymer grips, panels ok I can always replace those with something else) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818-DVC Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Jim anglin, canyon creek, Matt cheely, and anyone who builds xx11 style raceguns for the most part will build you a caspian or tangfolio Sounds like your pretty set on the tangfolio. Check out Henningshootsguns.com, Matt Mink does work for them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy42 Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Jim anglin, canyon creek, Matt cheely, and anyone who builds xx11 style raceguns for the most part will build you a caspian or tangfolio Sounds like your pretty set on the tangfolio. Check out Henningshootsguns.com, Matt Mink does work for them too. I am certainly leaning toward the Tanfoglio because of the price and to me it looks good, but I am by no means sold on it. I really would like to find someone local that owns one that I can put my hands on to see how it feels in the hand. Plus no one seems to be able to answer the quality question. Yeah I know the whole you get what you pay for thing, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good gun even at the 1200ish price. Maybe its me, but while its great that there are people out there that can build a Caspian, I really would like to see some of them and not what I can find on a google images search. Plus I still would love to know if there "starter" limited guns out there that are easy on the budget. I don't mean using a Glock/XD stock in limited to use high cap mags, but an honest purpose built limited gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 A Caspian build will probably cost about the same as an STI, They are basically the same gun, The frames are pretty closely matched in price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Iggy, Come out to the next match At Summit Point WV. While it is not on the club wesite yet we are planning on holding the match on Nov 27. I will bring my Caspian Limited gun and there will be S_I's in attendance also. Sumiit Point Action Shooters website You can sign up for email notifications ona the website also. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Jim anglin, canyon creek, Matt cheely, and anyone who builds xx11 style raceguns for the most part will build you a caspian or tangfolio Sounds like your pretty set on the tangfolio. Check out Henningshootsguns.com, Matt Mink does work for them too. I am certainly leaning toward the Tanfoglio because of the price and to me it looks good, but I am by no means sold on it. I really would like to find someone local that owns one that I can put my hands on to see how it feels in the hand. Plus no one seems to be able to answer the quality question. Yeah I know the whole you get what you pay for thing, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good gun even at the 1200ish price. Maybe its me, but while its great that there are people out there that can build a Caspian, I really would like to see some of them and not what I can find on a google images search. Plus I still would love to know if there "starter" limited guns out there that are easy on the budget. I don't mean using a Glock/XD stock in limited to use high cap mags, but an honest purpose built limited gun. Here is my 02 and I've run a CZ TS in the past and have a CZ Shadow Custom for Production. While a new CZ TS or Tanfo (by the way I started shooting Open with a Tanfo) look a little less expensive than an STI, from everything I have read here you are a prime candidate for a good used STI Edge and one can be had here on the forums with mags for about $1500. So keep an eye on the Classifieds and it won't take long and you will find one. The big difference is the Hinged versus sliding trigger, if you like the single stack you'll love the Edge. Is the Tanfo or CZ a good gun, yes they are, the CZ TS is ready out of the box, however, all of the Tanfo's i've seen had lots of work done on them. Is an STI ready out of the box, no, it needs a trigger job, fiber optic sights and a nice dawson mag well and some mags that hold 20 or 21 rounds. Get a BladeTech holster and don't look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818-DVC Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Again. I mentioned a para framed gun like the P-16 .40 TJ limited. You pick that up for $1200 new. $800-1000 used but race ready. Watch the classifieds. There's always someone selling something setvup & ready to go. Gunbroker.com is a good place to look too. Guns Americica sometimes has caspians Auctionarms.com is a good place to look too. You will have to test shoot an EAA witness limited to see if you like it. It is a good gun for limited, It's a small but growing club, though I think a lof people who don't like plastic guns in production, shoot CZ varients. Canyoncreekcustom.com is 1. Sailors custom builds both caspians, and CZ. Have you searched the galleries for caspian limited guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Don't overlook Para.I bought a used Para P-16 and did some mods to make it perfect for me, I have around $1000 in it and love it. I plan on shooting the barrel out now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Para would be my choice if you wanted to stay on budget. Get a P16 limited if they still make them then turn it over to a smith for a reliability package and a trigger job and throw on a Dawson Magwell and some pads and you are good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 All I have been seeing here is Caspian. Since I do not know what all goes into a custom build what would I be looking at price wise for a Caspian setup for limited. $2400 for a full custom built on a Caspian frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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