Steve Koski Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If you're a reserve officer, then you still have arrest powers when on duty, and are not fully retired (by my way of thinking). Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What Koski said. Duty rig means belt, holster, pistol plus ALL of the equipment on the belt that's worn on duty and wears body armour too. If SWAT then the helmet comes into play also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlweems Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) What Koski said. Duty rig means belt, holster, pistol plus ALL of the equipment on the belt that's worn on duty and wears body armour too. If SWAT then the helmet comes into play also. I see nothing in the rules that mandates the wearing of body armor and helmets. Please point me to the section of the rules that specifies this. --- For most agencies, SWAT/SRT isn't a full time assignment. My agency has personnel from three different divisions on our SRT. They only wear their SRT gear when at SRT training or on a call out. The rest of the time they were the gear relevant to their duty assignment. Edited March 18, 2011 by jlweems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlweems Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I contacted HQ about some of the issues discussed here: I asked about mounted lights as several agencies in my area mandate weapon mounted lights and only issue duty holsters that work with the lights attached. I was told that at this point the lights would be a no go at a sanctioned match but that the issue is under consideration. As for local matches, it would be up to the match director. I asked about the placement of ammo loading devices, specifically concerning revolvers, and was told that the shooter's duty setup would be good to go. I asked this question due to the fact that when I carry a revolver, I have all of the loading devices strong-side in front of the holster. If the officer carries a collapsible baton, it should be on the belt. Straight batons don't have to be carried. If a belt attached carrier is used for the radio, it should also be on the belt, but the radio doesn't have to be carried in a match. If the radio is attached to the belt via a clip, then there is nothing that has to be on the belt as far as a radio is concerned. ---- Personally, I can understand why IDPA wants it to be uniform for all competitors as to the use of attached lights; however, I don't see where the light provides any competitive advantage. They cause a weapon to be more prone to malfunction, and they can sometimes hang up in the holster on the draw. I maintain two sets of gear. One set is nylon gear with lots of gadets on it. The other set is my "class-A" set. It's all leather, and I typically carry a revolver when using this set of gear. I don't carry a lot of the ancillary items with this set of gear. Both are legitimate, complete sets of duty gear. The type of duty assignment I am pulling dictates which set of gear that I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 A gun mounted light makes the frame heavier, which is/is perceived as a competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlweems Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) A gun mounted light makes the frame heavier, which is/is perceived as a competitive advantage. I understand why it is in the rules; however, in a practical sense any advantage is negated by the trouble that come along with the light. If lights were legal, I wouldn't compete with one attached. Edited March 18, 2011 by jlweems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garner230 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I agree, you put yourself at a disadvantage anyway (competitevely) when you use your duty gear. I've practiced it and I am no ways as fast using my duty gear...and we dont have weapon mounted lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 My staff member eventually was able to shoot a match before he finished his training. (Not that night) Additionally at the 2011 Indoor Winter Nationals last month the entire team shot with duty gear without issue. Anyone who thinks there is an advantage to using duty gear has not spent much time in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I still like the guy who shows up with a Double Stack STI (with huge magwell)...mags and all..and calls it his duty rig brecause it has pepper spray on his rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jualdeaux Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 At the Indoor Nationals a few weeks ago, all the Coast Guard shooters were wearing their drop leg holsters as that is their duty gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sig chaser Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 To those that state arrest powers are needed to run duty gear I have a question. Why? I work as an armed guard I have powers of detention not arrest but carry cuffs baton radio and gun in a duty rig with retention devices. So why should I be barred from competeing with my work gear? Is practice somehow less important for me? Don't mean to come accross bad here but feel you are trying to make things black and white that aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlweems Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I don't disagree with your basic premise that you should be allowed to compete in your work gear. Personally, I believe that the rules should include licensed armed guards; however, that isn't what the rules state at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sig chaser Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yes but how is leo defined is the question. My state qualifies us as le for purchasing firearms and attending training so where is the line I don't see anywhere in the rules that states arrest powers. If the argument is full police powers then constables can't competet cause in most states they can't arrest and for that matter some sherrifs can't either because they can't stop cars in certain states. The rule should and in my opinion is writen with a very wide brush to encompass all who carry a side arm for a living in a uniformed capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlweems Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 As I said, I don't disagree with your premise that you should be able to compete with your work gear, but, and no offense intended here, security guards aren't peace officers. Security guards aren't law enforcement officers. The way it was explained to me in safety officer training was that a shooter had to be in the military or a certified peace officer with arrest powers to use duty gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sig chaser Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I know you are on my side so no offense taken. I just wanted to point out that for most other things we are lumped in with police. Trust me I am fully aware of the differences between us and have the utmost respect for the police. Part of my issue is where I work is different then most places as well with local leos having no jurisdiction on the property (though we work very closley with them and have a great relationship) I guess my only argument is if they define it as arrest powers then it should be writen that way. I mean what's next if we start looking to much into this finding out if a military guy is actually issued a pistol or if he or she is active duty? The reality is no one will complain if you do it in the spirit which it was intended. I know when I train I'm in no way fast enough with my duty rig to win anything let's face it stuff is in the way flaps are snaped and retention devices requre snapping pushing pulling or writing to congress for permission to get the weapon out you can become proficient but the reality is when using a real duty rig your not gonna beat an open top holster to the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehorn Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I still like the guy who shows up with a Double Stack STI (with huge magwell)...mags and all..and calls it his duty rig brecause it has pepper spray on his rig. Exactly! Don't forget the CR speed mag holders. That has been my only problem with this rule. Those who want to "compete" take advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I have seen some pretty rockin' police shooters out of a snapped Safariland SSIII and snapped and flapped mag pouches at training classes. Actually, if you're good enough, you can indeed beat an open-top rig on the draw. Just takes more skill, natch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 As I said, I don't disagree with your premise that you should be able to compete with your work gear, but, and no offense intended here, security guards aren't peace officers. Security guards aren't law enforcement officers. The way it was explained to me in safety officer training was that a shooter had to be in the military or a certified peace officer with arrest powers to use duty gear. Security guards don't have powers of arrest in your state I take it? In mine they do and I am all for someone training in their work gear as those people are most likely going to be first responders to an active shooter situation and have the potential to save lots of lives. I am not a security guard. I still like the guy who shows up with a Double Stack STI (with huge magwell)...mags and all..and calls it his duty rig brecause it has pepper spray on his rig. Exactly! Don't forget the CR speed mag holders. That has been my only problem with this rule. Those who want to "compete" take advantage of it. Oh yeah I know the type we've got a guy who uses a glock 34 in his duty rig...he gets really pissy about it when you ask him if thats his duty weapon, throws things and leaves. What a joke...what a cheater. On the other side of the coin there is a really good master level shooter that is honestly using his duty gun with heavy trigger and retention holster and duty belt full of "stuff" for lack of a better term. He even has rubber gloves and a radio not just a couple of mags, cuffs, pepper spray and a baton. Real world crimefighter training for the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam P. Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 Well I used my duty gear for one match and will again thos spring and summer. I had no issues with mine. I had everything but my radio. I was shooting my M&P 40FS that I carry at work, but I compete with it even when I do use a cover garnment. I had my mace, cuffs, glove pouch, taser, and double mag pouch. I use a Bladetech WRS duty holster. I train with my LEO gear a lot, so I was right on par with the guys using concealment garnments and I didn't come in last. I actually felt like I was better when using my duty gear since that's how I roll most days. I carry off-duty, but do it in an IWB under a t-shirt, so when I started using a vest, I felt slower than what I usually practice. I will say one thing, it sucks wearing your duty gear to a match and you are not shooting well...makes the po-po look bad...lol. It was funny though, the match I shot after I wore my duty gear, everyone that remembered me doing it were kinda of disappointed that I wasn't wearing it for every match. They commented and said that they wished more LEO's competed with their gear. I'll definately be doing it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Cheater with a G34? I know several police officers that carry a G34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Cheater with a G34? I know several police officers that carry a G34. Well seeing as it's not the standard issue duty weapon for that department/officer...cheater. I'm cool with police that actually carry a G34 as their duty weapon, but when it's used in a match with the fastest possible holster and mag pouches that could still be considered LEO gear...come on Everybody else is running around with a hooded retention holster and he's got ALS and open top mag pouches. I'm not bitter. I just can't stand folks that abuse a grace of the rules intended to promote their well being for competitive edge. Why does he get so defensive if he is in the right? Guilty conscience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I carry off-duty, but do it in an IWB under a t-shirt, so when I started using a vest, I felt slower than what I usually practice. Just out of curiosity, why not run the match with your IWB under a t-shirt? I'll bet you've got a lot of practice time in on that setup, and could rock with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlweems Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 No, security guards don't have arrest powers in my state. They are regulated through the Secretary of State's office rather than POST. They get a whopping 24 hours of firearms training including the classroom portion, and outside of their actual job assignment, they can't carry on their armed guard license. Unless the law has changed, the armed guard doesn't even get to keep their own "blue card". The company holds it, and if the officer changes employment, they have to apply for a new "blue card" through their new company. There was legislation put forward to allow the guard to actually own their own "blue card", but I'm not sure of its status. Also, if you read all of my other posts, you will see that I am supportive of armed guards being allowed to shoot in their gear. However, such is contrary to the rule as it was explained to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Cheater with a G34? I know several police officers that carry a G34. Well seeing as it's not the standard issue duty weapon for that department/officer...cheater. I'm cool with police that actually carry a G34 as their duty weapon, but when it's used in a match with the fastest possible holster and mag pouches that could still be considered LEO gear...come on Everybody else is running around with a hooded retention holster and he's got ALS and open top mag pouches. I'm not bitter. I just can't stand folks that abuse a grace of the rules intended to promote their well being for competitive edge. Why does he get so defensive if he is in the right? Guilty conscience? So if they are issued a G22 (like the majority) and he elects to shoot a G27, is he a cheater then? That would most likely be a disadvantage with a sub compact gun. Just sayin' Local Sheriffs Dept here are issued Sig 1911's but they can carry ANY weapon as long as I qualify with it. I can see where it MIGHT BE offensive to some officers. Just because they are issued a certain weapon, it might not be the best one for them to defend themselves or someone else with...ability wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlweems Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 A 34 isn't cheating. I qualified with my 34 this year, and since I do the firearms approvals, I approved myself to carry it. I think the Kentucky State Police carry the G35. I know of an agency in GA that issues the G34 to some officers, and I think one of the big agencies in TX also issues the G35. I'm sure there are plenty of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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