dbxdm9 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 (edited) I shoot both IDPA and USPSA - 6 different clubs in central NC. Noone has restrictions on who can shoot based on local club membership. All are welcome. A couple clubs charge $5 more to shoot if not a member. All these shoots have between 40-100 people. At one club there is a restriction as to the number of shooters allowed at a match, simply so we can complete the match in a reasonable amount of time. But even then, it is first-come first-served. Not club members get first priority. Why restrict non-members from shooting? Maybe they think it will boost club membership. Probably just drives the shooters to spend their match fees at another club who welcomes them. And they may then join over there. Wow man, can't we all just get along? Edited July 9, 2010 by dbxdm9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I shoot both IDPA and USPSA - 6 different clubs in central NC. Noone has restrictions on who can shoot based on local club membership. All are welcome. A couple clubs charge $5 more to shoot if not a member. All these shoots have between 40-100 people. At one club there is a restriction as to the number of shooters allowed at a match, simply so we can complete the match in a reasonable amount of time. But even then, it is first-come first-served. Not club members get first priority. Why restrict non-members from shooting? Maybe they think it will boost club membership. Probably just drives the shooters to spend their match fees at another club who welcomes them. And they may then join over there. Wow man, can't we all just get along? It is not about boosting club membership, our club has the most members that it ever has had. Only about 40-50 (maybe a little more) of them even shoot USPSA/other matches with us out of over 1000 members. I believe the problem is when it used to be open for anyone to shoot USPSA/other matches is 1. The club got into a mess with the non for profit status. 2. Non members would show up and shoot the matches and then wonder off to the skeet range,trap range,rifle range....and use the facilities after the match was over. Members of the club did not like this very much and I can't blame them. I have said it before I wish it was not this way but it is! Also I think years ago this club had the Area 3 match (from what I was told) don't know before my USPSA days. We are just lucky that we are able to hold matches at our club! The club is all volunteer no one is paid for there time and effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I think if Arnold adopted a two tier pricing scheme for the matches and charged non-members more for matches...well...hey...that would be fine by me....realistically, I think it will just get more people to join Arnold....once they start doing the math like I did. But if you can only shoot 4 matches a year, you really get screwed, almost $70 per match. The pricing might work out in the long run for the dedicated shooter, but for the new or casual shooter, you are really discouraging them for coming... and that is not how you grow the sport Or someone like me who goes to St. Louis about once a month, and every now and then that falls on the weekend they shoot. Its not worth it to pay $250 the first year to shoot 3-4 times a year, or even the second at $150. So I just usually try to make those weekends I visit fall on weekends where I know I can shoot somewhere without being a member. (Id much rather shoot than sit around at the in-laws house). I'll chime in. There are two large ranges that are each a 2.5 hour drive from my house (too far to visit for anything but matches). I have business in both cities, and can justify shooting a match 2-3 times a year when my schedule allows. One range has a "members only" policy and memberships run $250. The other range charges guests $20 to shoot a match. So I shoot 2 or 3 matches a year at the one club. They get $40-60/yr and an extra participant without having to do anything they weren't doing already. If there are 4 or 5 shooters like me, they're getting as much from a handful of occasional guests as the other club would get from one membership. Given that both cities are regional hubs, I suspect that I'm not the only guy out there who has business/family/educational/entertainment/cultural reasons to visit the city on a regular basis. For my money, it makes more sense to recruit occasional visitors and give them incentives to participate more or join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 How about other clubs are they primarily USPSA clubs or do you have other disciplines, like Trap and Skeet,archery,bulls eye,high power rifle, CAS, hunter education...... I think members of our club that shoot CAS,USPSA,IDPA need to get together in front of the board and see if we could get this changed for CAS,USPSA,IDPA types of matches. It couldn't hurt! I will still be a member of the club either way,but I do think that we need to look at this a little harder. If I can get all of our club members together that shoot the mentioned matches we might be able to get this changed:rolleyes: I know there are a lot of people that shoot at Barry IL and others that would probably come and shoot our matches once a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 How about other clubs are they primarily USPSA clubs or do you have other disciplines, like Trap and Skeet,archery,bulls eye,high power rifle, CAS, hunter education...... I think members of our club that shoot CAS,USPSA,IDPA need to get together in front of the board and see if we could get this changed for CAS,USPSA,IDPA types of matches. It couldn't hurt! I will still be a member of the club either way,but I do think that we need to look at this a little harder. If I can get all of our club members together that shoot the mentioned matches we might be able to get this changed:rolleyes: I know there are a lot of people that shoot at Barry IL and others that would probably come and shoot our matches once a month. We have lots of other disciplines. As far as I'm informed, if its an organized event listed on the calendar, anyone is welcome. USPSA, PPC, NRA-AP, Bullseye, Benchrest etc. I'll ask around and double check but Ive not seen us turn away anyone. Even at the informal "practices" held at the indoor range. No nonmembers allowed to shoot alone or on the range without being a guest of a member outside of the match/event. Same match fee's for everyone also. (at least for what I shoot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 None of the matches here are members only. If they were I would avoid them. Just can't justify joining a club for what limited shooting I would do. I had considered one club but their orentation day is a day I will never be able to attend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Some clubs take anyone and everyone, while some clubs take years and you literally have to wait for someone to die so a slot will open. I've heard of clubs charging $20 a year and clubs charging $1200 a year. So how much of an issue the "you must be a member" thing is obviously depends on where the clubs in question fall. Don't think I saw that info. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Buck Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 All the clubs I shoot at just charge non-members $5 more to shoot matches. I wouldn't join a club just to shoot matches. That extra $5 a match only comes to $60/year and doesn't come close to the yearly fees the clubs around me charge. Not to mention, I live out in the sticks and can step out into the back yard and shoot whenever I please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Central Jersey and Old Bridge both run multiple disciplines. CJ's facilities are huge. At the end of the match, the match directors make sure that anyone shooting the match is leaving the property, or staying as the guest of a member. That's not terribly difficult..... As an aside, I was the CJ match director for ~ 1 year before becoming a citizen of the U.S. It looks like in St. Louis I wouldn't have been allowed to join the club as a resident alien.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I really don't have anything else positive to say, so I'll keep my yap shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 I think there is a bit of confusion here, maybe it is just me. There is a difference between the club and the host range. Our club does not require a membership, you can shoot as a member or non-member ($5 more as stated above). Our host range is another story, THEY require our club members to have a range membership, not a club membership or USPSA membership and that is to cover their butts with insurance. Thankfully the range our club meets at only charges $20 a year. One of the nice things about our club is that if you join the range the day or night of our weekly match you get an $8 discount off your match fee, member or non-member. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Found out some other info on our situation at our club. Our club is only aloud to make so much from none members to keep the non for profit status and this is what the club got into trouble with when it was open to anyone to shoot the USPSA/other matches.This is why they changed the rules to keep it from happening again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Interesting, I had never heard of that being an issue for a not for profit group but you learn something every day. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 I'd get an accountant to join your club. There is no such thing as too much profit (unless you are a D) or having a limit on how much profit you make. You simply show how you utilize the "excess" profit back into the club for supplies, equipment, facilities improvement, etc. That way, you don't have a "profit". If you have extra dollars and you just let them sit there, then you aren't really aware of what you, as a NFP, are supposed to be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Found out some other info on our situation at our club. Our club is only aloud to make so much from none members to keep the non for profit status and this is what the club got into trouble with when it was open to anyone to shoot the USPSA/other matches.This is why they changed the rules to keep it from happening again. Did they consider simply charging less? Seriously, I used to work in the non-profit sector, and we simply had to show that what we made was plowed back into the business. In our organization, it didn't make any difference whether money came from members or non-members. It just had to go back into operating expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 INCOME from non members or from non membership events is limited by not for profit incorporation rules in some states. Private clubs must also be careful of being judging a public accomodation lest they lose their ability to select members. Non member income is a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 INCOME from non members or from non membership events is limited by not for profit incorporation rules in some states. Private clubs must also be careful of being judging a public accomodation and losing their ability to select members. Non member income is a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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