Illegal, unsafe, or no big deal?

[Steve Anderson]

A shooter in our squad this past Saturday racked the slide on his 1911 all day by placing his left index finger on the end of the slide below the barrel and pulling back from there with the one finger. (no full length guide rod)

It gave me the willies, but is it illegal in USPSA/IPSC?

Or is it perfectly safe and I've just never seen it?

[TDean]

Ah,..the 'ol pinch technuique.....

[ErikW]

It's legal until he puts his finger in front of the muzzle. He's very likely to get DQed for merely appearing to do that. It's also possible an RO may consider it "unsafe gun handling" and DQ him.

Reminds me of a sign a former co-worker had up at work: "Dang! Do not look into laser with remaining eye."

[BSeevers]

Not illegal until 1 mm of his finger gets in front of the barrel. I would DQ him if this happened because this kind of showboating is bad for sport. He shoots finger off, we all get bad press and sued.

He has seen too many Stevan Segal movies or hung around "combat" types

[Steve Anderson]

That's what was buggin' me, way too easy to shoot your way to a new nickname...

[BSeevers]

Stubbie? Shortie? Stupid?

[Carlos]

Agree that Steven Segal is no IPSC shooter and the "tactical-wannabe" crowd -especially those in the print media - do us all a disservice with continued talk/demonstration of the "pinch-check". I would urge all the ROs out there to exercise restraint when they see this done in a match - it will nearly always be a new shooter who does it so please try to inform them in a tactful way that the pinch check is out. I've not yet witnessed a newby pinch check but I have seen too many ROs aggressively pounce on obviously new shooters and turn them off to the sport.

On the bright side, I want to thank the ROs out there and NROI for doing what amounts to volunteer work. We could not shoot without you guys (and gals) - THANKS! D.

[Steve Anderson]

Just to clarify, he was loading the pistol that way, not checking the chamber...all comments should still apply.

SA

[benos]

Things change. That used to be cool; now it's not.

be

[cypher]

Yep.  I guess that went the way of the dodo, or is going to anyway.  I do remember when it was cool to do that.

(I didn't do it - full length guide rod).  I also remember when people used to clear their gun by dropping the mag (into their weak hand) and then racking the slide sort of across their body(muzzle pointed down range)... the weak hand would cover the ejection port and the round would pop into their weak hand.  Strong hand thumb would push up on the slide lock to lock the slide.  Then you show empty chamber to RO.  

Problem was some guys weren't all that good at it, especially if they had a heavy recoil spring.  They would angle their weak arm in such a way that their weak elbow would be in front of the muzzle.  Our club ended up "suggesting" that people not do it the "cool" way.

So we had to plop a round into the dirt so the RO's wouldn't get antsy.

I don't know if people even do that anymore.  My guess is they probably don't.  C'est histoire....

Cypher  

[spook]

I'm with Carlos. That guy has probably spent much time watching Steven Seagal movies. Now as cool as he might be, I always wondered how he managed to keep all of his fingers. But then again, I also wondered how people can actually hear what he is saying, when he is whispering in the middle of a gunfight on a moving train.

[Al Capizzo]

I remember reading long ago that one of Jeff Coopers objections to a full length guide rod was that it made it impossible to "press check" the chamber. Of course at that time no one had serrations on the front of the slide either. As Brian said, "times change".

[Detlef]

but even Cooper's school advocated this only for checking the chamber, not for loading it!

--Detlef

[Phil Dunlop]

That racking technique may be ok with old stances, like the weaver, isoc and mod, but its just not compatible with todays technique,  the 'Egret', unless you are blessed with an extraordinary balancing ability.

P.D.

[Duane Thomas]

Actually I recall reading an article years ago (Chuck Taylor?) that touted one of the advantages of the pinch check as, "If it turns out the chamber is empty all you have to do is continue pinching the slide all the way to the rear and then let go, and that'll load the chamber." <shudder> Y'know, out of curiousity I actually played around with this technique....verrrrry carefully, and what they don't tell you is this will only work with a full-sized Government Model (and even then only with a GI type recoil system). On a Commander or Officer's it won't work, the slide doesn't come far enough to the rear to pick up the top round in the magazine, even with the slide "pinched" as far to the rear as it'll go.

DUMB technique, that pinch check thingy. Though in years past I'm ashamed to admit I did it a lot, before I knew better. Of course, that was in my "pre-full length guide rod" days.

As to Steve Seagal's level of gun knowledge, I just LOVED the part in Under Siege 2 where he was giving a guy the highly effective 15 second training class on how to fire a handgun in combat, the gun being a Glock 19 or 23. The first thing he said was, "Take off the safety," and there was a *click!* as he demonstrated. Yep, obviously a gun expert! Just remember, class: the most important thing when firing a Glock is to always remember to take off the safety first. Of course that's the advanced technique...only for true "experts" like Seagal. Or could it be the only gun he really knows anything about is the 1911 - because that's the MANLY gun - he knows nothing about Glocks (or any other handgun for that matter) including the fact they don't have an external safety lever? Hmmmmm.

Thread drift, anyone? 

[Nolan]

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Quote: from cypher on 5:47 pm on June 6, 2002

So we had to plop a round into the dirt so the RO's wouldn't get antsy.

Cypher  

---

I turn the gun so the ejection port is down and just dump the round on the ground and warn the RO not to try catching the round.  At a local match I'll pick up the round.  At a major match I'll just grind it into the dirt and go on.  If it goes KaBlooie while ejecting, the port is pointed at the ground.  Of course with my luck I'll wind up with a second vasectomy.

[Vince Pinto]

Hi folks,

Today I stumbled across a new unloading device. Click here then scroll down to the bottom of the page.

[Phil Dunlop]

Vince,

looks like a good solution.

Remind me what the problem was.

P.D.

[Vince Pinto]

Hi Phil,

One of the most popular T-shirts worn by Harley owners says: "If you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand the answer".

The defence rests .........

[Mayonaise]

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Quote: from Vince Pinto on 3:03 am on June 20, 2002

Hi folks,

Today I stumbled across a new unloading device. Click

here

then scroll down to the bottom of the page.

---

A solution looking for a problem.  Silly.