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Why not a Benelli M4?


Beebs317

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nope...not many.

7+1 cap (if you get a DMW tube)...unless you put a +1 extension on it.

Pistol grip....yeah, some use it, not toooo many.

I believe they are hard to get to run with trap loads too with that argo gas system.

Tim

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That's the same question I asked when I was in the market for a shotgun. I figured if am M1 is good, an M2 is better then an M4 must be the pinnacle, right? Turns out that like Tim said the pistol grip, mag capacity, and most importantly the gas operation aren't as good for this 3 gun game as the much higher M4 price tag might suggest. So save $500 and get an M2.

Edited by jtischauser
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Wierd. My M4S90 will run Remington 1-1/8oz 1145fps trap loads (2.75 dram) rapid-fire from the hip. Same can be said for the other 2 I owned. Maybe if you don't lubricate it it might jam or something...

Also, I don't know the rules of the game, but my M4 holds 9. If I put a +1 on it, that would bump it to 10. I have even heard of people putting +2's on them. That is 11.

There is also a field stock (kinda hard to find, but it exists) for them.

Err...what were the objections again? Price? Well, if you can't afford, you can't afford. An M1 is tough to beat for price.

Edited by WS6
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I mean the Argos gas system is advertised to shoot ANY load, does anyone actually have an M4 that doesn't do that?

I prefer my M4 to my friends M2. Main reason a lot less recoil. The M2 is lighter. That is a plus but it recoils a lot more. I also prefer pistol gripped stocks but you can get a standard stock for the M4 if that is your prefrence.

Pat

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I had an M4 (M1014, actually) that would not cycle anything other than full power slugs or buck. No birdshot, of any kind, would cycle the gun.

I sold it when I discovered that 922® makes it illegal to add ANY extension to the magazine at all, since it comes from the factory as a 5 round shotgun. Some lucky soul got a letter from ATF's Tech branch a few years ago saying otherwise. Good for him because that letter is binding. The rest of us won't get so lucky.

I sold it and bought a Remington 1100 with the money. I have no regrets. The Benelli M4 is a combat shotgun and is basically useless for this game.

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I had an M4 (M1014, actually) that would not cycle anything other than full power slugs or buck. No birdshot, of any kind, would cycle the gun.

I sold it when I discovered that 922® makes it illegal to add ANY extension to the magazine at all, since it comes from the factory as a 5 round shotgun. Some lucky soul got a letter from ATF's Tech branch a few years ago saying otherwise. Good for him because that letter is binding. The rest of us won't get so lucky.

I sold it and bought a Remington 1100 with the money. I have no regrets. The Benelli M4 is a combat shotgun and is basically useless for this game.

What were you lubing the BCG with?

922r. With the advent of the Mesa Urbino hitting the market next month, even the threat of 922r (I say threat, as it has never been used) will cease to exist. I fail to see how the M4 is any different from the M2 except that you need to spend a little more, and it weighs a few ounces more.

Edited by WS6
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I had an M4 (M1014, actually) that would not cycle anything other than full power slugs or buck. No birdshot, of any kind, would cycle the gun.

I sold it when I discovered that 922® makes it illegal to add ANY extension to the magazine at all, since it comes from the factory as a 5 round shotgun. Some lucky soul got a letter from ATF's Tech branch a few years ago saying otherwise. Good for him because that letter is binding. The rest of us won't get so lucky.

I sold it and bought a Remington 1100 with the money. I have no regrets. The Benelli M4 is a combat shotgun and is basically useless for this game.

What were you lubing the BCG with?

922r. With the advent of the Mesa Urbino hitting the market next month, even the threat of 922r (I say threat, as it has never been used) will cease to exist. I fail to see how the M4 is any different from the M2 except that you need to spend a little more, and it weighs a few ounces more.

No idea.

Mesa Urbino looks like a nice upgrade.

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I had an M4 (M1014, actually) that would not cycle anything other than full power slugs or buck. No birdshot, of any kind, would cycle the gun.

I sold it when I discovered that 922® makes it illegal to add ANY extension to the magazine at all, since it comes from the factory as a 5 round shotgun. Some lucky soul got a letter from ATF's Tech branch a few years ago saying otherwise. Good for him because that letter is binding. The rest of us won't get so lucky.

I sold it and bought a Remington 1100 with the money. I have no regrets. The Benelli M4 is a combat shotgun and is basically useless for this game.

What were you lubing the BCG with?

922r. With the advent of the Mesa Urbino hitting the market next month, even the threat of 922r (I say threat, as it has never been used) will cease to exist. I fail to see how the M4 is any different from the M2 except that you need to spend a little more, and it weighs a few ounces more.

No idea.

Mesa Urbino looks like a nice upgrade.

Well in that case the problem is user-based and not mechanical. The Benelli M4 likes to run wet like an AR with a good lube like TW25B or LaRue MGL, or even CLP. I am not suprised it wouldn't run with light ammo in this case.

Edited by WS6
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M2 is light & fast, M4 is heavier & slower.

The M2 weighs 6.7#, while the M4 weighs 7.8#. This is the weight of the M4 with the OEM heavy 5-shot tube on it. If you take that off and replace it with a lighter 7-shot tube, the weight is reduced to around 7.4# or so. I have no idea what a +7 tube would raise the weight of the M2 to. Further, I admit full ignorance in this matter, but could .2-3# really matter a lot when you factor in that the M4 will run with lighter loads than the M2? I would think quicker shot-to-shot would cover for the extra .2-3# mass you would be swinging.

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I had an M4 (M1014, actually) that would not cycle anything other than full power slugs or buck. No birdshot, of any kind, would cycle the gun.

I sold it when I discovered that 922® makes it illegal to add ANY extension to the magazine at all, since it comes from the factory as a 5 round shotgun. Some lucky soul got a letter from ATF's Tech branch a few years ago saying otherwise. Good for him because that letter is binding. The rest of us won't get so lucky.

I sold it and bought a Remington 1100 with the money. I have no regrets. The Benelli M4 is a combat shotgun and is basically useless for this game.

What were you lubing the BCG with?

922r. With the advent of the Mesa Urbino hitting the market next month, even the threat of 922r (I say threat, as it has never been used) will cease to exist. I fail to see how the M4 is any different from the M2 except that you need to spend a little more, and it weighs a few ounces more.

I'm trying to figure out how a part deletes a law ?? :blink:

Choate has already been making a pistol grip aftermarket stock for Benellis for years ..

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I had an M4 (M1014, actually) that would not cycle anything other than full power slugs or buck. No birdshot, of any kind, would cycle the gun.

I sold it when I discovered that 922® makes it illegal to add ANY extension to the magazine at all, since it comes from the factory as a 5 round shotgun. Some lucky soul got a letter from ATF's Tech branch a few years ago saying otherwise. Good for him because that letter is binding. The rest of us won't get so lucky.

I sold it and bought a Remington 1100 with the money. I have no regrets. The Benelli M4 is a combat shotgun and is basically useless for this game.

What were you lubing the BCG with?

922r. With the advent of the Mesa Urbino hitting the market next month, even the threat of 922r (I say threat, as it has never been used) will cease to exist. I fail to see how the M4 is any different from the M2 except that you need to spend a little more, and it weighs a few ounces more.

No idea.

Mesa Urbino looks like a nice upgrade.

Well in that case the problem is user-based and not mechanical. The Benelli M4 likes to run wet like an AR with a good lube like TW25B or LaRue MGL, or even CLP. I am not suprised it wouldn't run with light ammo in this case.

I didn't say LIGHT ammo. I said that it would not function with ANY birdshot of any kind. I use CLP on everything so that's probably what was used.

Its replacement runs on anything in a 25 round box, and was much less expensive. It also doesn't have any 922r issues.

I would have loved to make the Benelli M4 work, especially because mine had chokes. But between the 922r issues and the fact that it would not cycle with birdshot, it proved useless for anything besides home defense.

It's somewhat mind boggling to me to see people defend something by saying "it likes to run wet." If it only runs when it's dripping in oil, it's not sufficiently reliable to take its place in my safe. No combat firearm should require more lube than what you can spread with your finger. That includes the AR you've mentioned here (check out the manual for the M16 sometime. Only a few parts require even that much lube. Most of the M16 is supposed to be lubed and then wiped off. Only a few parts, like the cam pin, require enough lube to spread with the finger).

I'm sure the M4 works great for that for which it was designed (slugs and buck on the two way range), but in my opinion, it lacks the reliable function with birdshot (even heavy field loads) for use in multi-gun competition.

Edited by twodownzero
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I had an M4 (M1014, actually) that would not cycle anything other than full power slugs or buck. No birdshot, of any kind, would cycle the gun.

I sold it when I discovered that 922® makes it illegal to add ANY extension to the magazine at all, since it comes from the factory as a 5 round shotgun. Some lucky soul got a letter from ATF's Tech branch a few years ago saying otherwise. Good for him because that letter is binding. The rest of us won't get so lucky.

I sold it and bought a Remington 1100 with the money. I have no regrets. The Benelli M4 is a combat shotgun and is basically useless for this game.

What were you lubing the BCG with?

922r. With the advent of the Mesa Urbino hitting the market next month, even the threat of 922r (I say threat, as it has never been used) will cease to exist. I fail to see how the M4 is any different from the M2 except that you need to spend a little more, and it weighs a few ounces more.

No idea.

Mesa Urbino looks like a nice upgrade.

Well in that case the problem is user-based and not mechanical. The Benelli M4 likes to run wet like an AR with a good lube like TW25B or LaRue MGL, or even CLP. I am not suprised it wouldn't run with light ammo in this case.

I didn't say LIGHT ammo. I said that it would not function with ANY birdshot of any kind. I use CLP on everything so that's probably what was used.

Its replacement runs on anything in a 25 round box, and was much less expensive. It also doesn't have any 922r issues.

I would have loved to make the Benelli M4 work, especially because mine had chokes. But between the 922r issues and the fact that it would not cycle with birdshot, it proved useless for anything besides home defense.

It's somewhat mind boggling to me to see people defend something by saying "it likes to run wet." If it only runs when it's dripping in oil, it's not sufficiently reliable to take its place in my safe. No combat firearm should require more lube than what you can spread with your finger. That includes the AR you've mentioned here (check out the manual for the M16 sometime. Only a few parts require even that much lube. Most of the M16 is supposed to be lubed and then wiped off. Only a few parts, like the cam pin, require enough lube to spread with the finger).

I'm sure the M4 works great for that for which it was designed (slugs and buck on the two way range), but in my opinion, it lacks the reliable function with birdshot (even heavy field loads) for use in multi-gun competition.

Look at the M4 dust-test results and then the re-test in which more lube was used. I think you will find that the M4 does better when it is wet vs. oiled and wiped off. My M4S90 is not "dripping", but I can visibly verify that TW25B is in the rails and on the "skids" of the BC.

Something sounds off about your M4. It is very possible that there was a problem with it. I have owned much more expensive firearms than an M4 that had mechanical QC issues. All 3 of my M4's have run with light trap loads (2.75 dram) right out of the box. Most people share my experience. Those that don't, we don't know how the weapon was maintained, or if there is a mechanical problem with it or not as they did not post up regarding such. However, your M4 is an exception http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=314453

As to 922r, it's really a non-issue. (up until about 7-8 years ago, Benelli was selling +2 mag extensions for the M4 to the public. After the feds pressured them, they stopped, but there was no confiscation, no buy-back, ando letter or warning about legality of installing said part supplied by Benelli.)

As to a part being added changing the law, well, 922r is a total joke that even the ATF does not understand, but the general consensus is that the M4 consists of 13 imported parts that "count". The mag tube is one, the follower is one, and the stock is one. Replace 3 of these and you get down to 10 imported parts, and you can do what you want with it then regarding stocks/mag capacity. Until the Urbino comes out, there have been no aftermarket stocks for the Benelli M4. The only option is to run a different fore-end setup and the only one out there that actually works out of the box costs over $300 and looks rather unwieldy, although some would disagree. The Urbino gives you a VERY functional 12.5" LOP (compared to OEM 14-3/8"), and gets you to the "magic partcount". WIN!

Edited by WS6
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If you can satisfy the 922r issues with US-made parts, obviously it's a non issue. It's been happening with AKs and SKSs for a long time, so it'd seem natural that it'd happen with the M4 as well.

My M1014 was one of the first imported into this country. I understand that there have been significant changes to the gas system over time. Originally, from what I understand, it had four pistons. Mine had two. I'm not sure what the new ones have. The four piston system supposedly would crack bolts with full power ammo. Perhaps they have modified the two piston system in the last 5 years in some manner that mine did not have such that it'd cycle with birdshot. Mine was a big disappointment.

I'm glad to see that the American market has picked up the M4 and is going to create parts for it. There has been a lot of talk for a completely US-made magazine tube, spring, follower, etc., for a long time. I know there have been no prosecutions for 922r, but the last thing I'd want if I owned an imported shotgun would be to have to deal with the ATF and becoming the test case. It's easier just to err on the side of caution and avoid violating the law. That is why I bought an American-made shotgun.

The day may come where I will fear a competitor with an M4 at a match. That day is not yet here for me. My 1100 works. The rest is on me. My M1014 did not, and so it's someone else's now. I look forward to seeing someone with a lawfully constructed M4 that works. I bought it because I definitely thought it was cool and would work for what I wanted to use it for. Unfortunately, that proved to be untrue.

Perhaps I have an irrational response to guns that fail to function out of the box, but it'd seem to me that in the 21st century--the era of CNC, CAD, etc.--that our expectations as consumers can be far higher than in years past.

The Urbino seems like a great idea.

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If you can satisfy the 922r issues with US-made parts, obviously it's a non issue. It's been happening with AKs and SKSs for a long time, so it'd seem natural that it'd happen with the M4 as well.

My M1014 was one of the first imported into this country. I understand that there have been significant changes to the gas system over time. Originally, from what I understand, it had four pistons. Mine had two. I'm not sure what the new ones have. The four piston system supposedly would crack bolts with full power ammo. Perhaps they have modified the two piston system in the last 5 years in some manner that mine did not have such that it'd cycle with birdshot. Mine was a big disappointment.

I'm glad to see that the American market has picked up the M4 and is going to create parts for it. There has been a lot of talk for a completely US-made magazine tube, spring, follower, etc., for a long time. I know there have been no prosecutions for 922r, but the last thing I'd want if I owned an imported shotgun would be to have to deal with the ATF and becoming the test case. It's easier just to err on the side of caution and avoid violating the law. That is why I bought an American-made shotgun.

The day may come where I will fear a competitor with an M4 at a match. That day is not yet here for me. My 1100 works. The rest is on me. My M1014 did not, and so it's someone else's now. I look forward to seeing someone with a lawfully constructed M4 that works. I bought it because I definitely thought it was cool and would work for what I wanted to use it for. Unfortunately, that proved to be untrue.

Perhaps I have an irrational response to guns that fail to function out of the box, but it'd seem to me that in the 21st century--the era of CNC, CAD, etc.--that our expectations as consumers can be far higher than in years past.

The Urbino seems like a great idea.

Mine and countless other M4's work like a charm out of the box. I think yours had issues.

There was a 4-PORT gas system. It was snapping bolts and deforming carriers. It was replaced by a 2-port gas system in the later 11707 model weapons. All 3 of mine have been such. All 3 worked flawlessly out of the box even on light trap loads.

There is already a a US made follower, titanium mag tube, spring, etc. etc. ALl we were lacking was a NORMAL LOP stock, and the Urbino is going to supply that. It is keeping the Benelli style PG, which absorbs recoil VERY well due to design, and it is going to incorporate an optional Limb Saver recoil-pad. It should be available within 3-4 weeks.

Also, one of my friends has made a limited amount of PROPER 1913 spec rails that are contoured to the Benelli M4 reciever and use the OEM bolts/washers that will allow the mounting of optics using LaRue mounts, etc. that the axially relieved OEM rail simply shredded.

There is a huge market around the M4s90, you just have to know who to ask.

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Ok, so the 10 part 922 AK game can be played here but why bother. Why bother with the hassle. One day you run into an officer that does not clearly understand the law and even though it can probably be cleared up you will have a bad day. There's just "no" advantage with the M4 over the M2 in "three gun" except the cool military factor. It's heavier, it's slower, it has slow sights, it costs more, and parts are even harder to get ??

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Ok, so the 10 part 922 AK game can be played here but why bother. Why bother with the hassle. One day you run into an officer that does not clearly understand the law and even though it can probably be cleared up you will have a bad day. There's just "no" advantage with the M4 over the M2 in "three gun" except the cool military factor. It's heavier, it's slower, it has slow sights, it costs more, and parts are even harder to get ??

Of course, explaining to this officer that your M2 is not subject the same 922r stipulations as the M4 will mitigate all troubles, yes?

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Ok, so the 10 part 922 AK game can be played here but why bother. Why bother with the hassle. One day you run into an officer that does not clearly understand the law and even though it can probably be cleared up you will have a bad day. There's just "no" advantage with the M4 over the M2 in "three gun" except the cool military factor. It's heavier, it's slower, it has slow sights, it costs more, and parts are even harder to get ??

Of course, explaining to this officer that your M2 is not subject the same 922r stipulations as the M4 will mitigate all troubles, yes?

I dont run a pistol grip on my imported shotgun, my argument is the same for an M2 with a pistol grip and a 9rnd tube. It's really not about the legallity of it thats the big question, as far as I'm concerned you can run anything you want. This being a competition only forum, the question being why not an M4, the answer, because theres just "NO" advantage with the M4 in three gun, only hassle ??

Edited by P.Pres
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Ok, so the 10 part 922 AK game can be played here but why bother. Why bother with the hassle. One day you run into an officer that does not clearly understand the law and even though it can probably be cleared up you will have a bad day. There's just "no" advantage with the M4 over the M2 in "three gun" except the cool military factor. It's heavier, it's slower, it has slow sights, it costs more, and parts are even harder to get ??

Of course, explaining to this officer that your M2 is not subject the same 922r stipulations as the M4 will mitigate all troubles, yes?

I dont run a pistol grip on my imported shotgun, my argument is the same for an M2 with a pistol grip and a 9rnd tube. It's really not about the legallity of it thats the big question, as far as I'm concerned you can run anything you want. This being a competition only forum, the question being why not an M4, the answer, because theres just "NO" advantage with the M4 in three gun, only hassle ??

I would consider greatly reduced recoil a benefit? M4 can be run with straight-stock as well.

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Any price out yet for the urbino?

Urbino Tactical Stocks for Benelli

Part No Item MSRP

90050 Urbino Tactical Stock (Standard Buttpad, Benelli M1/M2, 12-GA) 215.00

90060 Urbino Tactical Stock (Cheek Riser, Standard Buttpad, Benelli M1/M2, 12-GA) 280.00

91500 Urbino Tactical Stock (Limbsaver, Benelli M1/M2, 12-GA) 245.00

91510 Urbino Tactical Stock (Cheek Riser, Limbsaver, Benelli M1/M2, 12-GA) 310.00

Urbino Tactical stocks for the Benelli M4 are available in tactical black or coyote color.

90030 Urbino Tactical Stock (Standard Buttpad, Black, Benelli M4, 12-GA) 215.00

90040 Urbino Tactical Stock (Cheek Riser, Standard Buttpad, Black, Benelli M4, 12-GA) 280.00

91460 Urbino Tactical Stock (Limbsaver, Black, Benelli M4, 12-GA) 245.00

91470 Urbino Tactical Stock (Cheek Riser, Limbsaver, Black, Benelli M4, 12-GA) 310.00

90090 Urbino Tactical Stock (Standard Buttpad, Coyote, Benelli M4, 12-GA) 225.00

90100 Urbino Tactical Stock (Cheek Riser, Standard Buttpad, Coyote, Benelli M4, 12-GA) 290.00

91580 Urbino Tactical Stock (Limbsaver, Coyote, Benelli M4, 12-GA) 255.00

91590 Urbino Tactical Stock (Cheek Riser, Limbsaver, Coyote, Benelli M4, 12-GA) 320.00

Urbino Tactical stocks can be enhanced with the following modular buttpads.

90520 Standard Buttpad for Urbino Tactical Stock 35.00

90530 Limbsaver Buttpad for Urbino Tactical Stock 65.00

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My M4 runs just fine with 3 1/4 dram 1 1/8 ounch heavy game loads. I have found my M4 to be very reliable. Also you can ghost load and have 9 rounds in the gun with a 7 round mag. 1 in the chamber, 1 on the carrier and 7 in the mag.

Pat

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