Why not a Benelli M4?

[WS6]

Looking at the prices of the new stocks gets me on my soapbox. I love my old M1, but parts - from stocks to barrels - just seem WAY more expensive then they should be . . .

Well at least collapsible M4 stocks are only around $225 or so.

[bigbrowndog]

Chuck i've got a express sight on my coach gun for the right barrel because nothing beats iron sights up close, and then an old pachmayr flip over mount with a 2.5x scout scope for the left barrel. but it is a bit long with the 20" barrels

and it shoots slugs into a playing card out to 100yds, and buckshot stays in the same card out to 50, but the birdshot patterns are so big that I can hit 3 targets with one shot when they are 3ft apart at 15yds, I mean how can you not win with a shotgun like that!!!!!

Trapr

[Larry White]

I'm just going to watch this for a while cause the 1st 12th and 15th liar aint got a chance in hell-----------Larry

[Smoky Bear]

It seems to be in vogue these days to ask a question that the asker has already made up thier mind about and then when it is answered they argue with the answerer....sooo....The M4 is the very best shotgun for 3-gun ever made, or ever will be. It is the one system that in the hands of one who is moderately skilled will win every shotgun match out there. I am going to scrap my XXXXXX and get one tomorrow.

Well since has offered to take him on his offer to scrap his XXXXXX, I will. Will you take a 6-six of canned Bud Light Lime bought cold at a store in OK? You may have to give me change back but we will work on that.

[HRider]

I'm just going to watch this for a while cause the 1st 12th and 15th liar aint got a chance in hell-----------Larry

I am shooting the little known Smithe and Western ZZ frame top break 12ga shotgun revolver. With a six inch barrel and six shot cylinder using moon clips, it is fast in the tight hallways. Of course it is made of a supersecret material that absorbs recoil, so it feels like you are shooting a .22.

Hurley

[SinistralRifleman]

The Benelli M4 ROCKS in Left 4 Dead, but they nerfed the damage in Left 4 Dead 2 so its not as cool anymore. You can still load a shell every 1/2 second though.

[Beebs317]

I Think I got the answer:blink:

[Fleagle]

I am new to this sport and deciding which shotgun to buy.

I see that one reason given not to use the Benelli M4 is because of 922r restrictions on an imported shotgun and magazine capacity.

However, many people are recommending an M2 with an extended mag tube as the best option.

According to my research, the M2 is made in Italy, so the 922r hassles would apply to the M2 just like the M4. What am I missing about the difference between the M4 and M2 regarding 922r?

I am currently leaning toward either an M2 or an SLP MK 1. If I understand correctly, the new SLPs are made in the USA to bypass 922r concerns.

Thanks for the help!

[Bryan 45]

I have yet to run into a competitor at a 3 gun match that's concerned with 922A, B or C- let alone 922R.

[twodownzero]

I have yet to run into a competitor at a 3 gun match that's concerned with 922A, B or C- let alone 922R.

It wouldn't be so funny if the ATF was there and started taking people to jail.

As far as I know, nobody's been arrested for breaking 922r yet, but I haven't yet met someone who wants to be the test subject, either.

[Alaskapopo]

I am new to this sport and deciding which shotgun to buy.

I see that one reason given not to use the Benelli M4 is because of 922r restrictions on an imported shotgun and magazine capacity.

However, many people are recommending an M2 with an extended mag tube as the best option.

According to my research, the M2 is made in Italy, so the 922r hassles would apply to the M2 just like the M4. What am I missing about the difference between the M4 and M2 regarding 922r?

I am currently leaning toward either an M2 or an SLP MK 1. If I understand correctly, the new SLPs are made in the USA to bypass 922r concerns.

Thanks for the help!

Your right it applies to the M2 as well. Only shotguns made prior to 1986 are grandfathered. The are a few ways around this law. 1. put enough american made parts into the gun so that its considered domestic like all the AK's on the market. 2. Its a LEO duty weapon. 3. Register it as a short barreled shotgun. Most Benelli shooters are in violation of the law. But fortunately its not a priority for BATFE.

Pat

[SinistralRifleman]

It wouldn't be so funny if the ATF was there and started taking people to jail.

That day is coming. Arresting a lot of people engaged in "paramilitary training" or "combat games" as one Federal Court Case called it, for having illegal weapons would be a nice media frenzy for them. It would also be a good way to put a black eye on a sport that has increasing social acceptance.

It wouldn't matter that most of the charges would be dismissed, or fought and won eventually. There are enough laws in this country that everyone is guilty of something. In legal battles with the government there is no winning; only how bad do you lose. You cannot out spend the people that tax you.

Your right it applies to the M2 as well. Only shotguns made prior to 1986 are grandfathered. The are a few ways around this law. 1. put enough american made parts into the gun so that its considered domestic like all the AK's on the market. 2. Its a LEO duty weapon. 3. Register it as a short barreled shotgun. Most Benelli shooters are in violation of the law. But fortunately its not a priority for BATFE.

Pat

IIRC it was 1989. The HK imported Benellis for example were often imported in what would be non-sporting configurations now.

There was a recent ruling that the NFA (that can be owned or manufactured by individuals) no longer exempts guns from 922r. Someone had to go and specifically ask.

There are an increasing number of US made parts for benellis that easily put them in the realm of compliance.

Edited July 31, 2010 by SinistralRifleman

[Alaskapopo]

It wouldn't be so funny if the ATF was there and started taking people to jail.

There are an increasing number of US made parts for benellis that easily put them in the realm of compliance.

Only certain parts count towards the number of parts needed. ATF specifies which parts these are. For example on the M4 as far as I know there is not enough US made parts yet. YOu can get 4 but you need 5. (Forend from surefire, Mag tube, mag follower and spring.) If you know who makes parts that bring the Benelli's into complaince please share.

Pat

[cas]

You would be in possession of an un-importable weapon. So don't import it.

[SinistralRifleman]

Only certain parts count towards the number of parts needed. ATF specifies which parts these are. For example on the M4 as far as I know there is not enough US made parts yet. YOu can get 4 but you need 5. (Forend from surefire, Mag tube, mag follower and spring.) If you know who makes parts that bring the Benelli's into complaince please share.

Pat

The Mesa Tactical Urbino stock coming out next month takes care of the stock.

For M1s, M2s, M3s, speedfeed stocks have been available for years.

[WS6]

It wouldn't be so funny if the ATF was there and started taking people to jail.

That day is coming. Arresting a lot of people engaged in "paramilitary training" or "combat games" as one Federal Court Case called it, for having illegal weapons would be a nice media frenzy for them. It would also be a good way to put a black eye on a sport that has increasing social acceptance.

It wouldn't matter that most of the charges would be dismissed, or fought and won eventually. There are enough laws in this country that everyone is guilty of something. In legal battles with the government there is no winning; only how bad do you lose. You cannot out spend the people that tax you.

Your right it applies to the M2 as well. Only shotguns made prior to 1986 are grandfathered. The are a few ways around this law. 1. put enough american made parts into the gun so that its considered domestic like all the AK's on the market. 2. Its a LEO duty weapon. 3. Register it as a short barreled shotgun. Most Benelli shooters are in violation of the law. But fortunately its not a priority for BATFE.

Pat

IIRC it was 1989. The HK imported Benellis for example were often imported in what would be non-sporting configurations now.

There was a recent ruling that the NFA (that can be owned or manufactured by individuals) no longer exempts guns from 922r. Someone had to go and specifically ask.

There are an increasing number of US made parts for benellis that easily put them in the realm of compliance.

I shudder just to think of all you people getting togather in small groups (cells?) out in the middle of nowhere with your 922R violating weapons and training for hours on end with them.

To that end, I am happy to report that CC in conjunction with Geissele is bringing 922R compliant (read: AMerican) trigger group components (currently just the hammer, within the next month or so, with plans for more parts later) to market for the Benelli M4.

I do not know if this part is interchangeable with the M2 or not, but it's worth a look at a diagram!

[Panic Flinch]

Just thought I'd add a short .02 on the question of which gun to buy. I had this exact scenario with both guns on a table in front of me at the range...the M2 and the M4. I shot about 10 full power slugs through the M2 and was cursing the darn thing while massaging my shoulder. I was flinching and having a tough time holding slugs in the bullseye at 25 yards because of the...ouch this is gonna hurt factor. Yeah, I'm a girl. Picked up the M4 and could shoot slugs with that all day long! Literally, I would have no problems shooting 100 slugs in a row out of it. It was just the perfect amount of "softer" recoil that allowed me to get a good pull of the trigger without flinching like a schoolgirl. My accuracy with slugs was much better with the M4, and to me, the trigger felt much better. I also liked the pistol grip and collapsible stock and the ghost ring sights were very accurate at 100 yards. Furthermore, it will ghost load to 8 rounds and 9 if allowed to have one in the chamber. (My career allows possession so parts compliance was not an issue).

I know this goes against the general consensus of the thread, but just from a plain shooting standpoint...the M4 was a hands down winner for me and I bought it on the spot even though it was way more expensive than the M2. I did that before reading or researching ANYTHING about the two systems so my testing and evaluation was based solely on impressions, feel and performance. I did not have anyone standing next to me trying to sway me either direction either...my decision was completely untainted.

Now that I have done some research, I see that the M2 may not have been a bad choice after all. I may actually purchase the M2 3-gun as well and give them a further work out. But I must say, I've become quite accustomed to the M4 and really like how it shoots. It has never malfunctioned, even with a variety of shells...but I take it completely apart...even down to the gas pistons...and clean it every time I shoot it.

It hurts me to see there is no love for the M4 in 3 gun...I've had such a great time shooting it at competitions and it has never let me down. But it is true...the best will run what works best...they can not afford not to. And from what I've read, it is not taking home any gold, so there in lies the truth. But if the zombies were coming...I would have no problem 3 point slinging this rig as my Go To Shotgun! .02

Happy shooting...G

Edited April 1, 2012 by Panic Flinch

[Alaskapopo]

I used to love the M4 but I sold mine. Its a fine combat shotgun but for the game its heavy and the sights that make it good for LEO work suck for three gun on flying clays and for general speed. I love my M2 it almost feels like a 20 gauge when it comes to weight.

Pat

[AggiePhil]

I own an M4 and love it. If I ever got serious about competing though, I'd buy an M2. The M2 is just so much lighter and better suited for clays. The M4 is a workhorse but it's a very heavy shotgun (especially when you load it up all the way and hang a side saddle with shells off the side). So for me, it'd be an M4 for home defense/duty use and an M2 for competition.

[Gaoler]

I just sold my M4 and replaced it with a new M2...

My M4 never failed me and I enjoyed shooting it, but for 3-gun I found a couple of things lacking,

The sights worked great for me when shooting slugs... They may have been a hinderence when firing shot on clays or steel.

The pistol grip seemed to get in my way some times... I gave up tying to sourse a sporting stock for it...

[jdknotts1]

While I'm new to the sport, I quite like my M4. And honestly, I don't see how the sights are any slower than a vent-rib when shooting steel or clays. When I'm shooting steel or clays, I look through my sights. I don't look at them. So the ghost ring in the back disappears. Then when it comes to shooting the 100yd slug that many MDs like to throw at us, it is perfectly suited.

I can say the tube has hindered me in the begining. After two matches maxed out at 8, I bought a titanium tube that brings me to the magic number 9. I have been debating on getting a +1 or +2 from Nordic so I can load a bit more after the start. Which one would you guys recommend?

[Carlos]

If you want a 100% Italian-made M4 with collapsable stock and full capacity tube, just but it from Benelli:

The Benelli H2O version has all the "evil" features and NO compliance parts!

So, HOW is Benelli getting around 922R?

-the Robar coating.

Why would a Robar coating change anything? Because: Robar and many other FFL-holding gunsmiths have been ordered to pay an "excise tax" for gun manufacture even if they only coat the gun as Robar does, or perform other work.

Robar & Benelli apparently turned this loss into a win: they argued that if they are forced to pay a manufacturing tax, then anything they coat becomes "manufactured" in the US. Since the Italian M4 becomes an "American-made" M4 if you ROBAR-it, 922r no longer applies.

Some have speculated that the recent Saiga import ruling had an effect. This is red-herring and NOT a factor. If this were a factor, then M4s with "evil features" would be available in other finishes besides the US-applied Robar.

BTW - this "loop hole" could be applied to ANY semi-auto banned from import for civilians if one simply had the gun Robar-ed.

Think about the posibilities:

H&K 93s or Semi-auto G-36s? Galils or Tavors? FN-FNCs or Swedish AK-4s? Canadian C7s? CZ 802s? Beretta ARX-160s? ALL could be available to civilians.

[kellyn]

It wouldn't be so funny if the ATF was there and started taking people to jail.

That day is coming. Arresting a lot of people engaged in "paramilitary training" or "combat games" as one Federal Court Case called it, for having illegal weapons would be a nice media frenzy for them. It would also be a good way to put a black eye on a sport that has increasing social acceptance.

It wouldn't matter that most of the charges would be dismissed, or fought and won eventually. There are enough laws in this country that everyone is guilty of something. In legal battles with the government there is no winning; only how bad do you lose. You cannot out spend the people that tax you.

Your right it applies to the M2 as well. Only shotguns made prior to 1986 are grandfathered. The are a few ways around this law. 1. put enough american made parts into the gun so that its considered domestic like all the AK's on the market. 2. Its a LEO duty weapon. 3. Register it as a short barreled shotgun. Most Benelli shooters are in violation of the law. But fortunately its not a priority for BATFE.

Pat

IIRC it was 1989. The HK imported Benellis for example were often imported in what would be non-sporting configurations now.

There was a recent ruling that the NFA (that can be owned or manufactured by individuals) no longer exempts guns from 922r. Someone had to go and specifically ask.

There are an increasing number of US made parts for benellis that easily put them in the realm of compliance.

We always win. Eventually. Bwhahaha ...... Bwahahahahahaha ....... Bwhahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!!!!

Edited April 12, 2012 by kellyn

[Tac Ray]

I own an M4 and love it. If I ever got serious about competing though, I'd buy an M2.

I wanted an M4 because I love a lot of things about the gun - the way it fires, the way it looks, the quality. I know it's not the best choice for 3 gun but realistically if I shot the course with an M4 vs a better gun the difference would likely be negligible. I'd do better by practicing shotgun reloads rather than reading forum posts about why the gun's no good