Brian Payne Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 (edited) Some people like to learn the hard way. I am one of those people. The easiest answer to this question is to listen to what Benny Hill says. Take a look at the top 25% of 3-gun shooters and see what they are running. There is a reason why those weapons are being used by the top shooters who will spend the money to afford pretty much anything out there. They run what works because they can't afford not to. Will the M-4 work? Sure and work very well. Just not as well as the M-2. Edited June 4, 2010 by Brian Payne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I wish I was lucky enough that all my competitors ran a M4 with a 7 rd. tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruePunisher Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I wish I was lucky enough that all my competitors ran a M4 with a 7 rd. tube. HA HA! I agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaLarry Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 Can I ask Mr. Benny Hill what shotgun he uses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS6 Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 Can I ask Mr. Benny Hill what shotgun he uses? I am not Mr. Hill, but I do know from previous posts that one shotgun he enjoys using is the Benelli M2, and I suspect he has modified it somewhat as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esskay Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 I have a M1014 and love it. I ran it for 3-gun with a +1 extension and a straight stock for a while, until I replaced it with an 21" M2 Field purpose built for this game. Some thoughts: * As configured, mag capacity and straight stock were the same for both, so no advantage either way. * Both the M4 and M2 run 1 1/8 oz bird shot all day long. Both will occasionally choke on 1 oz bird shot. No advantage either way. * The M4 is definitely softer shooting, but with the bird shot I don't really notice. For slugs, I run low-recoil Ranger slugs, which I find perfectly controllable with my M2 though the M4 is indeed softer. Advantage to the M4 but somewhat academic. * The M4 is not modified, the M2 was worked over by Rob Melhorn so it loads and runs slicker than snot. With some work & trial/error, perhaps the M4 could be smoothed out too? But the M1/M2 are well-known quantities for the Benelli smiths and they know exactly how to tune them to absolute perfection. Advantage to the M2. * For the types of stages & mix of targets that I encounter in my 3-gun matches, the 21" vent rib barrel with hi-viz fiber on my M2 is much superior to the 18.5" barrel with ghost ring sights on my M4. There is no 21" vent rib barrel available for the M4. Big advantage to the M2. * Significant aftermarket support for M1/M2 in 3-gun, not so much for the M4. As much as I love my M4, the M2 is just a better choice for 3-gun IMO. (Plus the M2 is cheaper!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS6 Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 What kind of support are you looking for with the M4S90? Hands-on modification, or parts? If parts, most anything can be had for the M4 if you know the right people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 It seems to be in vogue these days to ask a question that the asker has already made up thier mind about and then when it is answered they argue with the answerer....sooo....The M4 is the very best shotgun for 3-gun ever made, or ever will be. It is the one system that in the hands of one who is moderately skilled will win every shotgun match out there. I am going to scrap my XXXXXX and get one tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS6 Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 It seems to be in vogue these days to ask a question that the asker has already made up thier mind about and then when it is answered they argue with the answerer....sooo....The M4 is the very best shotgun for 3-gun ever made, or ever will be. It is the one system that in the hands of one who is moderately skilled will win every shotgun match out there. I am going to scrap my XXXXXX and get one tomorrow. Some people like to advance a theory contrary to the masses and have it disproven rather than simply take the word of the masses. I myself fall into that category. I have learned and improved many things via this method. Does it make you popular? Not always. However, if you use the technique correctly, it WILL make you better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 (edited) Mr. Hill shoots a M2, and he has won a lot with it, and yes it has been modified. A bunch of people are shooting M2s modified by Mr. Hill, there are always M2s in Bennys shop waiting to be modified . There are 3 or 4 there now. M1s too. Lots of people shoot those guns from Triangle, and they have won lots with them. But he wont work on your M4. You can advance all the contary theories you want and they may make you better but you will still be shooting a second rate shotgun. There are good shotguns out there that are not M1s or M2s, but the M4 is not one of them.---------Larry Edited June 6, 2010 by Larry White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 (edited) Having to "know the right people" is hardly a selling point. There is a huge market around the M4s90, you just have to know who to ask. That sounds like Yogi's "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." It's so huge it's a secret. . Edited June 6, 2010 by cas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS6 Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 For 3-gun, I can see that the M4 is second-rate. For other uses, I would view the M2 as second rate. However, this is about 3-gun. Lots of parts for the M4 are poorly made. You need to know the right people to buy from if you don't want hack stuff. Tewlman was one such guy who made things CORRECTLY for the M4. Sadly, he no-longer does, so us M4 owners had to find another guy who owned a machine-shop and was handy with titanium alloy to build us proper bolts, magazine tubes, compensators, and 1913 rails and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 Absolutely!!! The M4 has no equal, and knowing the right people has no equal. Quesioning everything is always the very best policy and THE only way to learn. Defending your chosen position against all comers knowledgeable or not is the only way we will ever grow our sport or learn about what is the best gear like the M4. If only the people who are talking about what is used by the people winning matches would just see this as the way forward, this forum would finally be worth reading. (Remember you read this on the inter-net so there for it is true!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 If we could get a M4 with a realy short bbl we would be on to something..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS6 Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 If we could get a M4 with a realy short bbl we would be on to something..... I don't know if that is sarcasm or not, but SBS (14") M4S90 barrels are pretty common-place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 I do think a 10" shotty will be the phaschizzle, especially in the tight hallways commonly encountered in competitions. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 If we could get a M4 with a realy short bbl we would be on to something..... Don't forget to add a sighting system that is the slowest thing going for 99% of the targets we engage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 ABSOLUTELY a 10" M4 is the very best of all 3-gun shotguns! On a side note NO-ONE EVER made a Titanium mag tube to include Steve Sutherland who was the much vaunted Tewlman here on these forums. No-one EVERY made a Titanium bolt for ANY shotgun (he did make a nice Titanium bolt CARRIER for an AR but no bolt or bolt carrier for any shotgun)...but if anyone ever had it would be the very best ever for 3-gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 It seems to be in vogue these days to ask a question that the asker has already made up thier mind about and then when it is answered they argue with the answerer....sooo....The M4 is the very best shotgun for 3-gun ever made, or ever will be. It is the one system that in the hands of one who is moderately skilled will win every shotgun match out there. I am going to scrap my XXXXXX and get one tomorrow. Some people like to advance a theory contrary to the masses and have it disproven rather than simply take the word of the masses. I myself fall into that category. I have learned and improved many things via this method. Does it make you popular? Not always. However, if you use the technique correctly, it WILL make you better. If your goal is to reinvent the wheel, by putting an axle into the center of an octagon, you have an excellent system. I have found that I got a lot better by seeking out the top 10% of the masses and kindly asking for their experience. More of a "improve" the wheel approach by taking what is already developed and proven, avoiding the mistakes that have already been made, and utilizing that to work with my skill and ability. If you use this technique correctly, it WILL make you better FASTER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 It seems to be in vogue these days to ask a question that the asker has already made up thier mind about and then when it is answered they argue with the answerer. I have noticed that there is a very distinct line between people who ask a question with the intent to learn or expand their skillset and those who ask a question as just another way to seek approval for their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 the splits with a Ti bolt and carrier would be amazing!!!! And you wouldn't have to go to the gym all the time to bulk up so you could carry all your gear. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS6 Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) Sorry, I mis-typed. Bolt-handle/charger. Also I have a Ti mag-tube and love it. There is even a guy who will 1-off you a 5-shot Ti tube if your M4 is an SBS and you want to upgrade from the OEM tube to a lighter one. Edited June 7, 2010 by WS6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 OOOPS!! There is indeed a company making a Ti mag tube! I stand corrected! KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 I've got you all beat. I'm shooting a heavily customized Stevens 311A side by side at the Ironman this weekend. I had the barrels cut to 7" so it would be extra fast to handle and swing. I also added a Meopta K-Dot because that is the S#!T for 3-Gun. I'm gonna smoke all of you. BTW, does anyone know which barrel I should sight the 4x scope for? When I sight it in on the left one it's a little off for the right one? Maybe I should get one of those mini red dots for the other barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) Looking at the prices of the new stocks gets me on my soapbox. I love my old M1, but parts - from stocks to barrels - just seem WAY more expensive then they should be . . . Edited June 7, 2010 by chp5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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