Slide Lock reload on same target, or Tac-Load between targets

[DWFAN]

A stage planning question and scenario.

Lets assume 6 or more targets and no pepper poppers.

You engage 5 targets with 2 shots each (without a make up or round dump). (1 left in gun). Assuming there is no movement between the 5th and 6th target do you engage the next target and reload mid target from slide lock, or do you do a tac load before shooting the next target?

What if you have to move from 5th to 6th target but not behind cover. Example, you would shoot the 5th target and have to move to another shooting position, reloading on the move is not an option here, but there is cover from the starting and finishing position. Would you tac load before shooting the 6th, or would you go ahead and shoot the 6th then load from slide lock?

I know its hard to make a call without seeing a specific stage, but I just want to get a feel for what some guys think is the best way to do it.

Personally, twice this weekend I loaded from slide lock and forgot to re-engage the target. 2 times 5 down hurt my standings on what would have been pretty clean stages.

[Steve Koski]

In either case I would shoot to slide lock. Reload with your gun at neck level between you and the target you're not finished shooting, to help you remember.

[jar]

Pretty much the only time I tac load in IDPA is when it's required. Either by the stage briefing, or due to activators etc. Every once in a great while there's an advantage to tac loading while moving behind cover, but it's pretty rare.

[Steve J]

Where's poll?

I agree with Koski and jar.

The mental game is a huge part of your shooting. Mentally plan and rehearse where every shot and reload will be. Never be surprised by the condition of your gun or by a target.

[Steve Koski]

Unless it's a jammed up 1911. Then you're allowed to feign shock.

(LOL, sorry)

[Steve J]

Unless it's a jammed up 1911. Then you're allowed to feign shock.

(LOL, sorry)

[Gregg K]

Shoot targets 1,2 and 3 with 2 each. Reload (cylinders empty). Engage targets 4,5 and 6 with 2 each. Done. Laugh at ESP,SSP & CDP shooters that had to either tac-load or reacquire same target twice.

[MTBfarms]

If there is no movement, slidelock. I like to do tac loads if there is a lot of movement behind cover. If it helps I like to get my reload out of the way while I'm moving and can't be shooting.

[DWFAN]

Where's poll?

I couldnt figure how to word and give the choices, so i skipped the poll.

Thanks for the comments guys. I get a psuedo do over this weekend at the Arkansas state match, so hopefully I'll be more mentally prepared.

I think its tough going from USPSA where you can air gun your rehearsals, to IDPA where you cant. Just another mental challenge to overcome.

[steel1212]

No movement stand and shoot: Slide lock

Move from 5th to 6th target with no cover: Slide lock

I vary rarely use anything other than slide lock but had to this weekend and it was kind of cool. VIDEO If you look at the 1.33 mark it was beneficial because we had to shoot week hand on the last 2 and didn't have enough rounds to do so.

[IdahoShooter]

If I am moving and it takes me longer than 2 secs to get there, that's about how long a rwr or tac load takes me, then I will do a RWR or Tac Load, otherwise, it's a slide lock reload.

Time yourself, and see what you need to do a reload, then when you are at stage with options, in your head mentally time yourself and other shooters to see what you can do.

Brian

[salilus]

If I have cover for more than 3 steps then I consider a tac-load. Anything less than that is a automatic slide lock.

[Chris Christian]

I don't do TAC loads because I'm not nimble enough to handle all the required hand manipulations. I do RWRs. They are quick and simple. I never considered them really important until I started seriously shooting CDP at clubs dominated by SSP shooters/MDs. The way their COFs were set up there were many times when I could execute a quick RWR, without having to engage in 'properly executed gamer round dumping'... arrive at the next shooting position... with a full gun... and not have to interrupt that target array with a slide lock reload. There are times and COF scenarios where a smoothly executed RWR while moving behind cover will be faster than interrupting a target array with a slide lock reload. Gotta give Gregg K a +1 on his comments. When I shoot a revolver I treat it like a SSP/ESP gun... shoot to empty, reload when required, and there may be a tough target that requires three rounds... if the COF is set up in such a way that the third round works for me... not against me.

Chris Christian

[Nuke8401]

I used to do the RWR if greater than 4 feet of movement. Then I ran it with the timer and video camera. If I moved as fast while doing a RWR as I do just moving the 4 feet, I would RWR, but I slow down. So the time saved in reengaging the target is lost. Running yourself with a timer is the only true way to know.

David E.

[astephenson]

If it takes me longer than a second to get somewhere I'll RWR, because that's about how much longer it'll take me to do a RWR than a slide lock reload once I get to position.

I set up a stage once that require the shooter to engage three targets with two rounds each from each side of a barricade (no movement, other than transitioning between sides). I shot it both ways (RWR between sides, and reloading at slide lock before the last shot). It was pretty much a wash.

[Ahab]

I started doing the reload with retention when I had more than 2 yards of movement behind cover. For RWRs, I carry an empty mag pouch on my belt, so it's actually pretty fast to slam the partial mag into the rather forgiving hole on a Blackhawk double stack mag carrier and then do your reload from there.

[jar]

For RWRs, I carry an empty mag pouch on my belt, so it's actually pretty fast to slam the partial mag into the rather forgiving hole on a Blackhawk double stack mag carrier and then do your reload from there.

I read this as legal, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by someone giving you trouble over it.

[Steve Koski]

You can only have two mags on your belt when you start the stage (at the buzzer), but folks have asked HQ and been granted to use an additional mag carrier for their starter mag. This mag carrier would be empty at the buzzer.

The extra mag carrier has to follow the same rules, placement on belt behind CL of body, as defined by a vertical line from the center of the arm pit down. So you can't have it at 10:00 or 11:00. Can't even have it at 9:00. To be behind the CL of the body puts it somewhere before 9:00.

[CrankyCrash]

Unless it's a jammed up 1911. Then you're allowed to feign shock.

(LOL, sorry)

I stole your cartoon, even though I'm a Glock guy it made me laugh....

+10 on going to slide-lock ... it's always been much faster for me.

[RV man]

Nobody else will say it, so I will. You are bound to need a makeup shot before you get to the point to reload. Manage your ammo. Do a really fast slide lock reload and reengage the target because it is consistently faster.

[Steve J]

I used to do the RWR if greater than 4 feet of movement. Then I ran it with the timer and video camera. If I moved as fast while doing a RWR as I do just moving the 4 feet, I would RWR, but I slow down. So the time saved in reengaging the target is lost. Running yourself with a timer is the only true way to know.

David E.

+1 You will move slower doing a moving RWR... at least most of us will.

[CatsEye]

I used to wonder about this too. Then I figured out that for me going to slide lock is almost always faster. I go that way every time now unless made to do otherwise.

[Sac Law Man]

Depending on the distance, I may perfrom a tac load, here is why. When you go to slide lock with one round left in the gun, you have to acquire the target again which eats up time, the farther you are from the target, the longer it will take to reacquire it. A lot more time than a simple split. So if you perform a tac load in between targets (really anywhere) you will save time. Now if the targets are close within 10 yards, its not fatser, but farther out it is. I have tested this from 20 yards, and the tac load was faster each time.

This is even true if there is no movement at all!

Edited May 27, 2010 by Sac Law Man

[Steve Koski]

At 20 yards my transition between targets is like .7 seconds.

A good RWR takes me 1.0 seconds more than an empty reload, and it is a bit risky, sometimes taking 1.5 extra seconds if I foul it up...

So it's a no brainer for me. YMMV

Edited May 28, 2010 by Steve Koski

[Sac Law Man]

Steve do you mean transitions? Splits would refer to time between shots on the same target!

Are you saying that since you can do a slide lock reload one second faster, and your splits are .7 seconds at 20 yards, you are saving .3 seconds??

What your forgeting is this, Even though your slide lock reload may be 1 second faster than a RWR or Tac load, you have to factor in the time that it takes to get the gun up, acquire the sights and fire an accurate shot. It is more than you think.

If so, I guarantee that if you set up two targets at 20 yards and shoot 2 strings like this.

String one.. Fire 2 shots on T1, 1 shot on T2, slidelock then 1 shot on T2 and record your time. Then shoot String 2

String two.. Fire 2 shots on T1, RWR, then 2 shots on T2 and record your time.

Your times on string two will be faster.. Trust me.. try it if you dont think so.