Posting Match Hotel on Match Website

[Alan Meek]

In light of the reported vehicle break ins and equipment being stolen at match hotels, what are everyone's thoughts on posting the match hotel info on the match website?

Alan

edited cuz I cna't spul

Edited May 16, 2010 by Alan Meek

[Nik Habicht]

I'm thinking that info belongs in registration confirmation.....

Of course that might mean that the registrar/MD get a lot of e-mails to answer....

[BritinUSA]

I think that's a cool idea. Anyone scouring our web-sites to find the match location will of course know that there will be lots of shooters in the area. Then they just have to hand around the hotels and look for all the cars/trucks with USPSA, or other shooting relating decals on them. But every little bit helps, so I'm in favor of not posting the hotel information.

[bbbean]

In light of the reported vehicle break ins and equipment being stolen at match hotels, what are everyone's thoughts on posting the match hotel info on the match website?

I don't think thieves are scouring USPSA websites looking for places to steal. That requires too much work. I think the handful of reports we've heard are cases of thieves getting lucky. We don't hear about the 99% of shooters who stay at the match hotel, shoot the match, and drive home without a problem. Besides, one of the perks a match can offer a hotel is exposure through the website. Take that away, and there's one less reason for a hotel to offer a special rate, blocks of rooms, or other special services.

[Chris Keen]

I'm pretty sure hotels get 100X more exposure through the internet (priceline.com or expedia.com or travelocity.com) than they do through a tiny little mention on our shooting forums about where to stay

The potential bad that can come from alerting thieves where lots of shooters are staying for the weekend, far outweighs the possible good that can come from promoting 1 hotel to a group of shooter. Don't get me wrong ... I love a "special rate" if I can get one, but if it alerts the bad guys that I will be at ABC Hotel for the 1st weekend of May, and I'm bringing guns (for them to steal) I'd rather pay the extra $10 or $20 bucks a night and keep it a little more private.

I also don't see this as "work" for thieves. If they have half a brain, and a computer, the can jump on the internet and find a calendar of events in their town on whatever weekend they wish to swipe some easy money, simply breaking into cars in the parking lot, which IMO is the hard part of the whole job (stealing guns from shooters without getting caught).

Like others have said, this should be included with the registration info (whether email or regular mail) and not posted on a public forum.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Chris Keen

[bbbean]

I think we may be seeing a pattern where none exists. Its FAR easier for me to believe that a handful of shooters got unlucky, or the local lowlifes just happened to notice a bunch of cars in the parking lot with gun bumper stickers and gear stashed in sight than that gun thieves are taking the time to search out matches online and target match hotels. Even if some enterprising group of thugs did manage to have the idea in one place, what are the odds that they are going to travel around the country to hit matches, or that the same idea is catching on in multiple locations?

We do know that cars in hotel parking lots get broken into. Match or no match, that's a risk we take any time we travel. If we realy want to keep our guns from getting stolen, the best strategy is to simply keep them in the safest places available - with us, in hotel safes, or in a locked room with the do not disturb sign. Maybe truck vaults are something we need to look into.

For that matter, if theives were intent on stealing guns, stealing from a bunch of people who have highly customized and identifiable guns, post pictures of them on forums, and who belong to a national network of shooters probably isn't a good strategy. How are you going to sell a stolen open or limited gun without opening yourself to all kinds of risk?

My wife and I used to have an event production/PR company, and we both still work with a few organizations producing statewide and regional events. I can tell you from experience that exposure on websites, printed materials, and signage is a consideration for an event hotel. It may not be the thing that makes a difference in making a profit or not making a profit, but they like the exposure. The key to advertising is to be everywhere, attach yourself to things people value, and establish brand loyalty. I'm sure hotels would be willing to be match hotels without being listed on the website, but it does mean giving up one bargaining chip when negotiating the best deal.

Edited May 16, 2010 by bbbean

[Team Amish 1]

I think BBBEAN is onto something. The omnipresent NRA or Glock sticker is far more likely to get some scum break into a car than the chance that in X months there is a match in city Y and the match hotel is Holiday Inn Z.

Stealing sucks!

[SmittyFL]

I highly doubt it is anyone looking over websites. If I were a bettin' man I would say it was a hotel employee that was aware of the event in town and alerted their 'associates'. If that is the case it doesn't matter where or how you advertise it or get the word out.

[LChico]

Just got back from the NRA Annual meeting in Charlotte. Over 70,000 in attendance, not including the exhibitors. The hotels were posted on the NRA website for months in advance. The local media also listed many of the downtown and area hotels would be full of NRA members. Also, the local news media played up the the irony that the Convention Center and the Arena prohibited open or concealed carry before the gathering. Stands to reason that many gun owners would be leaving firearms in their cars or hotels. Pretty easy to spot those cars in hotel parking lots and at restaurants, with the NRA decals or pro-gun bumper stickers.

Not one break-in or theft during the event. Trust me that the local media would have been all over it (with the slant that crime increased because of the NRA). However, there were break-ins to vehicles at the parking garages of both large local hospitals and near a university campus, according to the local news.

Having attended or worked at over 65 out-of-town matches during the last 10 years, I can count on my two hands the number of people I have heard had firearms or gear stolen. I agree with the posters who think these are crimes of opportunity and not the result of thieves trolling for information about where the shooters are sleeping or having dinner.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

Edited May 18, 2010 by LChico

[BillD]

I highly doubt it is anyone looking over websites. If I were a bettin' man I would say it was a hotel employee that was aware of the event in town and alerted their 'associates'. If that is the case it doesn't matter where or how you advertise it or get the word out.

I'm bettin Smitty has it right. Some maid or clerk has a brother or boyfriend........

Edited May 18, 2010 by BillD

[John Heiter]

As a Match Director, I probably see things from a little different perspective. I want everyone to know which hotel was chosen to be the match hotel, and I want everyone to stay there for a number of reasons.

1. I get a comp'd room for every X rooms that are booked in my block which I can give to RO's. These guys bust their butts and deserve it, but that's money that doesn't have to come off the prize table so it really benefits everyone. The more rooms competitors book the more comp's I get.

2. Our competitors get a discounted rate below the going local rate. Again, the more rooms' competitors book, the more "buying power" I have and the lower the rate I can negotiate next year.

3. As a MD I am careful to select a hotel that is a good blend of price, convenience, and a relatively safe location. While no location can be guaranteed to be crime free, a local has a better chance of picking out a good safe hotel than an out of towner doing a google search. It worries me when I hear one of my competitors "found a better rate just up the road" when I know it's an area I wouldn't stay in even if I had a secret service escort.

As far as advertising the match hotel on the website, we'll continue to do it. I kinda doubt we have thieves looking on the match websites to plan their targets. We hired a Deputy Sheriff to patrol the parking lots of our match hotels on Friday and Saturday nights this year and I think that worked out well. Maybe just to be safe we'll start advertising that fact on the match website as well.

[bbbean]

We hired a Deputy Sheriff to patrol the parking lots of our match hotels on Friday and Saturday nights this year and I think that worked out well.

Wow. That's really going above and beyond. Good job!

[Xfactor]

We hired a Deputy Sheriff to patrol the parking lots of our match hotels on Friday and Saturday nights this year and I think that worked out well.

Wow. That's really going above and beyond. Good job!

Posting plans to have police hired specifically to patrol match hotel parking lots should allay any concerns of potential thieves trolling match websites looking for a target rich score...

[Dan Hefta]

These crooks are not getting info from the web, they are getting tipped off by housekeeping our some insider at the motel, the point being we as a shooting community need to be more aware and we need to keep our precious firearms within reach at all times. Don't leave your gear in the car while you are showering, unless you have a strong box bolted to the frame. These scum are looking for a quick buck and don't want to take too much time. I would bet my left nut it's motel staff behind these crimes.

[John Heiter]

These crooks are not getting info from the web, they are getting tipped off by housekeeping our some insider at the motel, the point being we as a shooting community need to be more aware and we need to keep our precious firearms within reach at all times. Don't leave your gear in the car while you are showering, unless you have a strong box bolted to the frame. These scum are looking for a quick buck and don't want to take too much time. I would bet my left nut it's motel staff behind these crimes.

I agree to some extent, although I think one shooter at A6 was hit at Olive Garden so who knows. FYI, since the hotels are private property I extended the courtesy of asking them if they had a problem with us hiring off duty LE's to patrol. It's kind of hard for them to say "No" when you explain the situation, and it gets the word out inside the hotel as well. The rate was pretty reasonable and the guy we hired was excited for the opportunity because he was saving to buy an EOTech for his AR.

[dcarter]

Another option, if you don't want to pay for a police officer, is to ask the local department for a "directed patrol". Most jurisdictions do this just to keep us lazy police from having to write so many reports. An officer will be assigned to drive through the lot every so often and keep an eye on things. Just let your local police know that a lot of shooters (with guns) will be at these locations all weekend long.

[Sterling White]

Good question Alan - simple yet complex. All of the responses are good. If we were casting votes I would say yes to publish the match hotel. In light of the question I would also add a note to the registration to competitors that says "keep your valuables locked up, out of site and out of mind"....without going into detail.

[Seth]

I think we need a match safe room... maybe stick a staff member in a hotel room with all the guns, an internet connection, a stack of porn and a big screen TV.

Throw in a couple of cases of good beer and I GUARANTEE that dood won't leave that room til the beer is gone.

[BillD]

Till he has to pee

[Chills1994]

hearing about stolen gun stories on this forum is a lot like hearing about a jetliner crash on TV.

both are fairly rare events but when they do happen it really sticks out in our minds.

how that sticks out in our minds and affects our decisions is called the " availability heuristic"

you can read up on it here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

sooooo....I didn't vote in the poll. Occam's razor says that the simplest explanations tend to be the most accurate or truthful or plausible. so I would say that the shadey hotel staff is more likely to tip off one of their thieving friends versus some ne'er-do-well browsing match websites. more plausible than both of those is ...however...some scumbagg noticing the NRA or Glock stickers on a good number of vehicles in the hotel's parking lot.

slight thread drift ahead...back when I went through SERE and then had a job handling classified documents on a daily basis, even information not classified fell under " EFI " elements of friendly information. the enemy could take a piece of info from here and another piece from over there and...well... piece it together to figure out what our forces are planning to do.

so along those lines ....

keeping match hotel information a closely guarded secret won't amount to a hill of beans if the pimply faced 18 year old working the front desk says something like:

CALLER: I'd like to reserve a room for august twenty-first.

FRONT DESK KID: Uh....hmmn...I'm sorry sir but all our rooms are booked up.

CALLER: Really? What's going on that weekend?

FDK: Oh, a bunch of guys are gonna be here for a USPSA match.

CALLER: USPSA? Match? What's that?

FDK: I think it is some sort of competition where they run around and shoot targets with their pistols.

CALLER: Really...so....ummm...there will be lots of guns in town that weekend, eh?

FDK: Yep!

CALLER: oh!?

FDK: Yeah it must be a pretty big deal cuz like...uhh....ummm...there are guys coming up from Florida and Georgia for it.

CALLER: huh! .......CLICK!