I need a Patent Attorney

[badchad]

I’m looking to patent some inventions. Nothing gun related but I’m hoping someone on the forum has some recommendations. A Google search found me this group http://www.patentdoc.com/ and they sound like what I am looking for but for all I know they just have a good website. Any recommendations?

[kaiserb]

I'm looking to patent some inventions. Nothing gun related but I'm hoping someone on the forum has some recommendations. A Google search found me this group http://www.patentdoc.com/ and they sound like what I am looking for but for all I know they just have a good website. Any recommendations?

I would recommend you stay away from the "We help you market your invention / get a patent" companies. Hire and attorney, as they will have YOUR best interest in mind.

[Toolguy]

Hi badchad-

Kaiserb has it right. Look in the phone book or Google phone book and call a patent lawyer in your city or a nearby city.

Do not get involved with the people in TV ads. I make prototypes of new inventions for a living. I deal with patent issues on a regular basis. You can start with a provisional patent for cheap ($100 to $200 or so). That will get you on record quickly, and gives you a year to get things going with a longer term patent.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Toolguy

[NMBOpen]

Jim and Tim Forshey are shooters and attorneys who sponsor USPSA and 3-Gun matches at Rio Salado, but I believe they are based in Tucson. Should be good for a referral if they don't handle it themselves.

Edited April 5, 2010 by NMBOpen

[Classic_jon]

I’m looking to patent some inventions. Nothing gun related but I’m hoping someone on the forum has some recommendations. A Google search found me this group http://www.patentdoc.com/ and they sound like what I am looking for but for all I know they just have a good website. Any recommendations?

As has been said go find a local attorney as they will work for you and remain in the legal end of things.

A lot of those "We help you market it" companies have been known to "take" and idea and change it just enough and take it to market themselves...and sell it against or instead of your idea... and not pay you a dime. They will then tell you that it "did not market well" and make $$ off of your hard work... and they will do it while you are paying them to help you as well...

It is a win-win for those that are less then scrupulous and have little to no morals......

[davidwiz]

Stay far, far, far away from the internet sites giving legal advice without being licensed to practice law. They are not attorneys and certainly not patent attorneys.

Patent law is highly specialized - every patent attorney I know has an engineering degree in the area of law that they do patents for, some even have MAs and PhDs.

I would suggest calling your local county bar association for an attorney referral. Or you can search on http://www.lawyers.com for a patent attorney in your area. I would *strongly* suggest that whomever you hire is admitted to practice before the US Patent Bar - while it isn't necessary to do patent work, it shows that they are serious about patent work and know what they are doing.

[Canuck223]

I hate to sound like a nay-sayer, but all to often I see postings like this creep up.

If you have a good idea, that might be patentable, ask yourself a few questions.

1) How much money can I make from this in the next 7 years?

2) If I sink the cash I'd spend on a lawyer into marketing and production, how much more can I sell/make in the next 18 months?

3) If I patent this, do I also have the means to defend the patent in court?

4) What is the likelyhood of this going offshore, causing me to take action against multiple defendants importing knock-offs?

First and finest to market makes the big cash.

[Sean Gaines]

I hate to sound like a nay-sayer, but all to often I see postings like this creep up.

If you have a good idea, that might be patentable, ask yourself a few questions.

1) How much money can I make from this in the next 7 years?

2) If I sink the cash I'd spend on a lawyer into marketing and production, how much more can I sell/make in the next 18 months?

3) If I patent this, do I also have the means to defend the patent in court?

4) What is the likelyhood of this going offshore, causing me to take action against multiple defendants importing knock-offs?

First and finest to market makes the big cash.

great post!

Patent's are not cheap, from what I hear around 8-10k, hopefully you will make that amount of money with the invention.

I have wondered why if you went public with something, why that shouldn't be an official announcement to the general public, that hey this is mine and don't copy, and should be good enough. There is a paper trail or a post to refer to the date of the announcement, but I guess with all things money, you have to CYA.

[Neomet]

Chad, if you want Tim's number drop me a pm. i have his info.

[kgunz11]

I hate to sound like a nay-sayer, but all to often I see postings like this creep up.

If you have a good idea, that might be patentable, ask yourself a few questions.

1) How much money can I make from this in the next 7 years?

2) If I sink the cash I'd spend on a lawyer into marketing and production, how much more can I sell/make in the next 18 months?

3) If I patent this, do I also have the means to defend the patent in court?

4) What is the likelyhood of this going offshore, causing me to take action against multiple defendants importing knock-offs?

First and finest to market makes the big cash.

That's the biggest part. Patents that are any good are not cheap at all. $6,000.00 would be a bare minimum, but that's not the expensive part. Paying an attorney to go after someone in court that has violated your patent is the really expensive part and typically there is no recourse for the trespasser other than a cease order.

[rabidrhino]

Admittedly, as a patent prosecutor and IP litigator, I am probably more of a yea-sayer than most.

For some reason or another, there is much folklore about the patent system, maybe due to the practice changing faster than many other areas of law, who knows. The best thing you can do for yourself is ask any and all IP-related questions early. Personally, I find it fascinating that individuals quickly form LLCs, s-corps and what not, yet take no actions regarding their IP until it is too late.

Obviously you need to have a budget in mind and really there is no way to figure out what are the best options for you without speaking to a patent attorney, as the cost can vary greatly depending on the subject matter as well one's individuals goals. With that said, an investment upfront can often alleviate significant problems down the road.

Also, I'd argue that there is most definitely recourse other than hefty litigation bills....infringers can make great licensees.

Whatever you do, consider your options early as you can't take back what you have given to the public domain.

Good luck!

I hate to sound like a nay-sayer, but all to often I see postings like this creep up.

If you have a good idea, that might be patentable, ask yourself a few questions.

1) How much money can I make from this in the next 7 years?

2) If I sink the cash I'd spend on a lawyer into marketing and production, how much more can I sell/make in the next 18 months?

3) If I patent this, do I also have the means to defend the patent in court?

4) What is the likelyhood of this going offshore, causing me to take action against multiple defendants importing knock-offs?

First and finest to market makes the big cash.

great post!

Patent's are not cheap, from what I hear around 8-10k, hopefully you will make that amount of money with the invention.

I have wondered why if you went public with something, why that shouldn't be an official announcement to the general public, that hey this is mine and don't copy, and should be good enough. There is a paper trail or a post to refer to the date of the announcement, but I guess with all things money, you have to CYA.

[twodownzero]

PM cyclone336, and stay the hell away from one of those hoky companies.

[AR Gunner]

PM sent.

[cyclone336]

The United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) has some websites to help out independent inventors. Check these out:

http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/index.jsp

http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/iac/index.jsp

They also have a site that can assist you with finding a patent attorney:

https://oedci.uspto.gov/OEDCI/

I would like to qualify the following by stating that I do not personally know anything about the firm that you referred to in your initial post. That being said, did anyone else follow the link? It may very well be a legitimate patent law firm. It appears that they have three attorneys registered with the USPTO. Again, I do not know them, but their site looks very different from those of a lot of scam artists. However, you should still proceed with caution. Here is a link to the USPTO's pamphet on scam warning signs and how to avoid getting burned:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/iip/documents/scamprevent.pdf

[Jeeper]

I knew there were some other patent attorneys on this site beyond myself. Coincidentally I also live in Phoenix. I don't do patents anymore but am still licensed and I teach a few classes each year at U of Arizona's engineering school on patents. PM me your number and I will talk to you about the process and so forth and refer you to someone if you need it.

[badchad]

That being said, did anyone else follow the link? It may very well be a legitimate patent law firm. It appears that they have three attorneys registered with the USPTO. Again, I do not know them, but their site looks very different from those of a lot of scam artists. However, you should still proceed with caution. Here is a link to the USPTO's pamphet on scam warning signs and how to avoid getting burned:

Thanks all and thanks for the cyclone for the links. Near as I can tell the firm I linked sounded legit and their fees, all inclusive for a simple US patent,(I think mine's simple) is around $5000. So if they deliver as promised maybe that's not bad.

[Jeeper]

That being said, did anyone else follow the link? It may very well be a legitimate patent law firm. It appears that they have three attorneys registered with the USPTO. Again, I do not know them, but their site looks very different from those of a lot of scam artists. However, you should still proceed with caution. Here is a link to the USPTO's pamphet on scam warning signs and how to avoid getting burned:

Thanks all and thanks for the cyclone for the links. Near as I can tell the firm I linked sounded legit and their fees, all inclusive for a simple US patent,(I think mine's simple) is around $5000. So if they deliver as promised maybe that's not bad.

Dont be fooled by their pricing. Read farther down the page. The 5K is to file. That is not the whole picture.

A response to an office action is 2-4K. If you find me a patent that the USPTO did not make you respond to at least 1 office action then it was a poorly written patent. Common is two office actions. Now you are at the 10K level.

Here is patent 101 for your benefit.

Your attorney's job is to write your patent as broad as possible so that it covers as much as possible to catch all infringers.

The patent office's job is to narrow your patent as small as possible. After you file then send in an "office action" which is an objection or rejection, of all or part of your patent, including subparts and specific claims. Your attorney then responds or edits the patent application to deal with the office action. This can occur multiple times during the process.

[cyclone336]

That being said, did anyone else follow the link? It may very well be a legitimate patent law firm. It appears that they have three attorneys registered with the USPTO. Again, I do not know them, but their site looks very different from those of a lot of scam artists. However, you should still proceed with caution. Here is a link to the USPTO's pamphet on scam warning signs and how to avoid getting burned:

Thanks all and thanks for the cyclone for the links. Near as I can tell the firm I linked sounded legit and their fees, all inclusive for a simple US patent,(I think mine's simple) is around $5000. So if they deliver as promised maybe that's not bad.

Dont be fooled by their pricing. Read farther down the page. The 5K is to file. That is not the whole picture.

A response to an office action is 2-4K. If you find me a patent that the USPTO did not make you respond to at least 1 office action then it was a poorly written patent. Common is two office actions. Now you are at the 10K level.

Here is patent 101 for your benefit.

Your attorney's job is to write your patent as broad as possible so that it covers as much as possible to catch all infringers.

The patent office's job is to narrow your patent as small as possible. After you file then send in an "office action" which is an objection or rejection, of all or part of your patent, including subparts and specific claims. Your attorney then responds or edits the patent application to deal with the office action. This can occur multiple times during the process.

On the bright side, it may take them a few years to get around to sending you an office action:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/annual/2009/oai_05_wlt_04.html

[badchad]

Thanks everyone, this is helping me a lot. A few more questions,

I’ve been thinking up designing and using a series of devices (4 right now) that work together that I was hoping to patent all or some of them. However if I’m looking at a cost of $10,000 rather than $5000 I’m wondering if I can combine them together into one patent but still protect the individual components?

Second, rapidrhino you used the phrase “given to the public domain.” What does that include? If I build some prototypes for use in my office and to let patients try at home am I giving it away?

Third, the 3 of the 4 above devices I’m building into a single commercial quality do all machine that’s not particularly complex, but will be a bit pricy to build (I just bought a MIG welder) and likely won’t be perfect on the first try. I imagine I’ll improve it as I use it and see what improvements I can add. So should I try to patent it early while it’s still in the design stage, later after it’s just how I want it, or somewhere in between?

Last someone told me that if I write up my design, seal it in an envelope, and mail it to myself, then that constitutes legal proof that I came up with the idea on such and such date which I can use should anyone try to steel my design. Any truth to that?

[rabidrhino]

Thanks everyone, this is helping me a lot. A few more questions,

I’ve been thinking up designing and using a series of devices (4 right now) that work together that I was hoping to patent all or some of them. However if I’m looking at a cost of $10,000 rather than $5000 I’m wondering if I can combine them together into one patent but still protect the individual components?

Second, rapidrhino you used the phrase “given to the public domain.” What does that include? If I build some prototypes for use in my office and to let patients try at home am I giving it away?

Third, the 3 of the 4 above devices I’m building into a single commercial quality do all machine that’s not particularly complex, but will be a bit pricy to build (I just bought a MIG welder) and likely won’t be perfect on the first try. I imagine I’ll improve it as I use it and see what improvements I can add. So should I try to patent it early while it’s still in the design stage, later after it’s just how I want it, or somewhere in between?

Last someone told me that if I write up my design, seal it in an envelope, and mail it to myself, then that constitutes legal proof that I came up with the idea on such and such date which I can use should anyone try to steel my design. Any truth to that?

Maybe, maybe not as far as the combination goes. While you can patent a system or apparatus with multiple parts, the USPTO more or less has the final say regarding how may inventions are in an application; if they deem that there are more than one, you will have to select one.

Secondly, unless you protect your invention via the patent system, you are giving it to the public domain, meaning anyone can use and produce the item. Generally, the way it works is that you can have one year of use or sale before you are barred from filing a patent application in the US. If the use or sale was experimental to perfect the invention, you can get around the bar.

Regarding the time to file an application, it really just depends on your invention, the novel and nonobvious features and what you think the improvements may include. You really need to sit down with a patent attorney and ask him/her about this in light of what you have and your legal budget. Once you file an application, you cannot add new features to it.

Most patent attorneys will likely tell you to get something on file before public disclosure, whether it is a bare bones provisional application or a full-bore non-provisional. Finally, don't believe the mailing stories, they are hogwash and do nothing. If you really want to document a date for your invention, get the disclosure signed by a notary, though the best thing to is to just commit to an early filing.

[badchad]

Thanks, all good info.