Shooting a classifier 15% over current class bracket

[2MoreChains]

I think this is the right place to post this question.

Something "out of the ordinary" happened to me today. The HF of a classifier I shot today calculates out to be more than 15% of my current national percentage and Class bracket.

Will it count towards my national percentage? I referenced the rulebook, and asked a few people at the match today, but got varying answers.

According to page ii of the 2008 rulebook, this score will be entered into the database, but will probably be given a "flag" when it's recorded at Sedro Wooley.

Per page ii in the rulebook:

To guard against the possibility of of incorrect stage set-up or typographical error, scores that are more than 15 percent above your current classification bracket are evaluated at the time of entry to see if such a score would adversely affect your classification. In general, those scores are entered, but occasionally a score is so out of the ordinary it is not used and flagged with an A.

It's the last part of the quote from the rulebook that I underlined that has me worried. It is out of the ordinary for me to shoot that well, but what can I say? I've been doing a lot of dry-fire and live-fire practice recently, and I guess everything came together for me today. Maybe this is the start of one of those "incremental improvements" after plateauing for a while.

Let's just say for sake of argument that the Classifier was set up correctly, scored correctly, and recorded correctly, and there are no typographical errors. When averaged as one of the six highest of my recent 8 classifiers on file, it will be enough to bump me up to the next class, so that's not what I would consider an "adverse effect" to my classification (other than it makes me the newest small fish in the next's higher classification's pond).

So, will it count? I guess I'll find out around the 10th of next month...

Thanks

[Tim Egan]

Nice Job Evans,

I am not really too sure what they look at, but I've had one that I shot that went on my record.

Chances are that it will post, but keep an eye on it at next months run.

TimE

[2MoreChains]

Hi Tim.

That's reassuring. Yeah, guess we'll see next month. In the meantime just wondering how to interpret the rulebook.

If they don't use it, it'll be the first time I've done "too well" at something! But, like I told Carrie today at the match when we were looking at the scores -I had a broken watch once that told the right time twice a day..." I had a moment's consideration of doing a re-shoot for classification and slowing it down a tad, but she reminded me that the best one is the one that is submitted. Good thing too, since I can't imagine doing a re-shoot to do "worse". The concept is perplexing enough and I'm not good enough or smart enough to sandbag.

It was a good match regardless. Nice wx, good people, and good shootin'.

[2MoreChains]

Hey Tim,

Quick question. On the one you shot that was 15% over, did they flag it with an "A", or did it get a "Y"?

[boz1911]

It should count assuming everyone else's scores weren't also too high. You can always email them and explain that it was a legit score and should count. Good shooting!!

[Jim Norman]

Essentially IF the scores submitted from the host club for that classifier are mostly all in range and yours is the 'odd on out' then it will likely count. If all the scores seem out of range, the MD will probably be contacted. This happened to me a number of years back where I had a really high percentage against the National Averages. It was counted, but the MD did have to communicate that my overall match performances were running high and that the timer and scoring was all correct.

Of course you also realize that from this point forward not turning in spectacular performances will earn you the title of Sandy as we now know what you are truly capable of and anything else is as the nickname indicates sandbagging.

Jim

[Kagemusha]

Follow up question... if a score doesn't get counted and gets flagged A, can the flag change in the future after earning subsequent classifier scores that bring it within 15%?

[CHA-LEE]

Kagemusha> You should call USPSA about that question. There seems to be a lot of "If this, then that" kind of qualifications for deeming specific classification score to be valid or not. From what I have seen once a classifier score has been given a specific disposition the only time it changes is if it gets bumped DOWN to a non-qualifying disposition and not used. I have never seen a classifier result that was initially deemed as non-qualifying become a valid qualifying score again. I am yet to see a classifier with an "A" disposition on someone's classification results. The results would probably have to be very abnormal for USPSA to question it much less disposition it as an "A". Such as a C class shooter and end up with a 100% or better classifier result.

If they had a hard rule of making any classifier result that is 15% above your current classification not count (Making it an "A" disposition), then there would be a lot of people forever stuck in B class from a mathematical standpoint. When most people break out of B class they post up at least one or two classifier runs that are at least 15% or better than their current classification average percentage.

[2MoreChains]

Of course you also realize that from this point forward not turning in spectacular performances will earn you the title of Sandy as we now know what you are truly capable of and anything else is as the nickname indicates sandbagging.

Jim

Hi Jim, I think we have a case of mistaken identity going on. You must be refering to my highly competitive evil twin brother... but duly noted. He will be so informed!

The scores got posted this morning, so I did a quick scan. I think mine is the only 'odd one out'. So looks like I might be OK.

We had 23 classified shooters and 12 unclassified at the match. Of the classified shooters, it looks like 11 people shot HF's that put them in the same class as before. 9 shot one class under their current classification, 1 shot two classes under, and one guy shot 1 class above (he's a "D", but shot a "C" HF. He was on my squad, and I'll bet money that he doesn't stay a "D" for very long). And one odd man out, me.

Thanks everyone!

Edited February 22, 2010 by 2MoreChains

[Ron Ankeny]

I have been doing stats for many years and USPSA pretty much follows the system as outlined on their website to the letter.

[pjb45]

The thing to remember is that someone could hook up a great classifier. Which is a cool thing to experience. But in reality you may not be that type of shooter all the time. So they may flag that classifier for the time being. But if you hook up a couple more then call them. They are reasonable and will see it is the start of a trend for you and re-evaluate your scores.

[2MoreChains]

The thing to remember is that someone could hook up a great classifier. Which is a cool thing to experience. But in reality you may not be that type of shooter all the time. So they may flag that classifier for the time being. But if you hook up a couple more then call them. They are reasonable and will see it is the start of a trend for you and re-evaluate your scores.

Good post. Thanks for that.

Onus is on me to see if I can do it again, but that's gonna be a tall order to get additional +15% HF's. I know I'm not in that class. Maybe someday...

...but you're right, it was a cool thing to exprience. It was one of those "woah, that was smooth... how did I do that?" moments that happens all too infrequently, but are much sought after. I'm just trying to seek an understanding of the rules (and not to beat my own drum) since page ii caused me some serious head scratching that was more than just a dry scalp...

Cheers

[blaster113]

Same thing just happened to me; I was languishing in L10 C class and shot a 78% on my last classifier. The classifier was counted and got my overall percentage up into the B class range My recent classifier scores were in the low 60% and high 50% range.

[2MoreChains]

Sig Shooter:

Perfect. That pretty much describes my situation. Thanks for the feedback.

[Flyin40]

I had it happen to me and they didn't count it. It would of moved me up a class. I don't recall what the flag was though.

Flyin

[RIShoota]

I shot a classifier match last week and the classification system updated today. I shot a %100 on CM09-10 "life's little problems" and the system gave me an "A".

Now I know that the score that was entered was not an error. IMO alot of shooters did well on this classifier the same day.

Should I contact the home office on this? My current classification is Low B, this would not have moved me up. Also, I have shot classifiers in the past that were more than 15 percent in the past and they were counted.

[DonovanM]

Nice run! I sure would

[Sin-ster]

I shot an 80% when I was still a C-class shooter, and it was counted. That's notably over the 15% mark for a cut off.

The way it was explained to me, the main concern is that a Classifier was set up improperly. We actually had this happen at a local match, where the wrong sized poppers were used-- and a dear friend shot 100% from B-class. That score was counted as well, until the error was caught; now it's completely removed from his Classifier list. The reason why it wasn't caught during calculation was that no one else really did all that much better because of the improper design. IOW, it's not a perfect system.

I also recall hearing that there's a concession for moving someone up when it's not justified. Say a D-class shooter went luckbox and shot a 90%, enough to bump him up. If none of his other Classifiers were even over 35%, the score would likely be counted out. In my case, with the 80%, I was .05 from moving up to B anyway, and had several mid-60's logged in the previous weeks; into the books it went, and rightly so.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Less than 2 years after I started shooting OPEN,

I was classified a C.

One club I shot at had a classifier (shooting 24

shots at 40=45 yards, which is my specialty (I'm

an "old bullseye shooter" and I had just sighted

my gun in at 45 yards:))

I shot just under an A on that classifier, and a

few months later, they ran the same classifier

a second time - and I aced it once again.

Signed up for Nationals as a C - got bumped to

a B a few weeks before the Nationals - tried to

appeal it, but no dice.

Two years later, I'm now shooting at the B level:)

I still specialize in distance shooting - it's the

close up "hosing" COF's that give me trouble.

Jack

[LPatterson]

The thing to remember is that someone could hook up a great classifier. Which is a cool thing to experience. But in reality you may not be that type of shooter all the time. So they may flag that classifier for the time being. But if you hook up a couple more then call them. They are reasonable and will see it is the start of a trend for you and re-evaluate your scores.

Good post. Thanks for that.

Onus is on me to see if I can do it again, but that's gonna be a tall order to get additional +15% HF's. I know I'm not in that class. Maybe someday...

...but you're right, it was a cool thing to exprience. It was one of those "woah, that was smooth... how did I do that?" moments that happens all too infrequently, but are much sought after. I'm just trying to seek an understanding of the rules (and not to beat my own drum) since page ii caused me some serious head scratching that was more than just a dry scalp...

Cheers

All you need to do is practice more with Tim to get that HF to stay up there but I am not sure about a plane ride.