If USPSA Revolver were analogous to Single Stack?

[belus]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I was unable to find it in a search.

I do not shoot revolver, but after witnessing someone compete in open with a 627 + C-more I started thinking about the division.

In Single Stack, there are two different maximum rounds before a reload, depending on whether the competitor is shooting major or minor PF. For a minor SS gun you're allowed 10 rounds, but with major PF you must reload after 8.

Why is a similar approach not taken with Revolver? Namely, 8 shots permitted at minor PF and only 6 shots at major.

If this were permitted, where would you expect the balance of competitiveness to lie? Would a majority of revo shooters stick with 6rounds/major, or are reloads so time consuming that 8rounds/minor would dominate?

[twodownzero]

I've yet to see a way to write the rules so that minor can be competitive. Rarely, there are some very talented people who manage to score really well, despite going minor. That said, I tend to think that if major scoring is available, it will generally be necessary to win.

[steel1212]

I've yet to see a way to write the rules so that minor can be competitive. Rarely, there are some very talented people who manage to score really well, despite going minor. That said, I tend to think that if major scoring is available, it will generally be necessary to win.

I saw Jerry shoot 6 shot minor at A6 last year and win beating the current revolver champion doing it. Personally I don't think it would be very competitive, but I feel the same about it in single stack but it gives you options so I say go for it.

[LPatterson]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I was unable to find it in a search.

I do not shoot revolver, but after witnessing someone compete in open with a 627 + C-more I started thinking about the division.

In Single Stack, there are two different maximum rounds before a reload, depending on whether the competitor is shooting major or minor PF. For a minor SS gun you're allowed 10 rounds, but with major PF you must reload after 8.

Why is a similar approach not taken with Revolver? Namely, 8 shots permitted at minor PF and only 6 shots at major.

If this were permitted, where would you expect the balance of competitiveness to lie? Would a majority of revo shooters stick with 6rounds/major, or are reloads so time consuming that 8rounds/minor would dominate?

The round count you are listing for SS is in the magazine so it is 10+1 for minor and 8+1 for major. The degree of competitiveness would depend on the competitor and the level of other competitors. Stage designs would determine reloads but I wouldn't consider it to dominate anything. When a shooter wins the Single Stack Classic shooting minor then I'll rethink how important reloads are in the whole scheme of things.

[Calmwater]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I was unable to find it in a search.

I do not shoot revolver, but after witnessing someone compete in open with a 627 + C-more I started thinking about the division.

In Single Stack, there are two different maximum rounds before a reload, depending on whether the competitor is shooting major or minor PF. For a minor SS gun you're allowed 10 rounds, but with major PF you must reload after 8.

Why is a similar approach not taken with Revolver? Namely, 8 shots permitted at minor PF and only 6 shots at major.

If this were permitted, where would you expect the balance of competitiveness to lie? Would a majority of revo shooters stick with 6rounds/major, or are reloads so time consuming that 8rounds/minor would dominate?

The round count you are listing for SS is in the magazine so it is 10+1 for minor and 8+1 for major. The degree of competitiveness would depend on the competitor and the level of other competitors. Stage designs would determine reloads but I wouldn't consider it to dominate anything. When a shooter wins the Single Stack Classic shooting minor then I'll rethink how important reloads are in the whole scheme of things.

Would the Single Stack Classic be the fairest measure for this? I have never shot it, but I would think most of the stages are 8 shot major friendly.

I imagine you are right overall though. I think most formats where major is an option it will be prevalent.

With this posts scenario, you are talking about a greater percentage ammo difference than you are with single stack (two rounds is a bigger deal when you are talking 6/8 as opposed to 8+1/10+1).

[Carmoney]

The last three posts are correct. The SSC is always set up in 8-round arrays, to make damn sure nobody wins using 10+1 minor!

Maybe a search won't pick it up easily, but we have discussed this topic, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, here on the Revo forum.

[Carmoney]

I would add that I think (all other things being equal) an 8-round minor revo and a 6-round major revo would potentially be very close.

The 8-rounder would be easier to shoot and have two more rounds per reload. The 6-rounder would score more points and allow slightly faster reloads. It would be pretty close--stage design would make the difference on which format would be best.

Or so it seems to me.

[chizzle]

I really like the idea! If guys could shoot 8 shot .38 special revolvers and competitive, it would only serve to bring more guns into USPSA. While I don't think it's going to "take over" the revolver division from .45 acp 625's, I don't see how it could hurt anything. Maybe it would increase market demand for more rigid moonclips for the .357 8 shots revolvers (which are currently a little flimsy due to the thinner groove on the cartridge) and sweet Carmonized action jobs on 627's . We might also see a proliferation of 9mm and 38 super 8 shot revolvers, in an effort to make these guns reload faster. Based on this, I think it would only be good for the sport, but I'm curious see if anyone can come up with a reason why it would be bad for the sport.

I think it would be really helpful to have a poll on this thread, to see if other people agree, or if we're in the "minor"ity. (shocked looking smiley face due to use of terrible pun)

[S&WIowegan]

I think it would be a very interesting situation. As Carmoney says, this idea has been batted around regularly here. Most of the top shooters in Revo don't like the idea. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry would opt for 8-shot minor if given the chance. That's what he shoots in ICORE and I know he's not fond of shooting major loads anymore.

Many of us have already experimented with our 627s and it all works quite well. Uniform brass and made-to-order moonclips from Hearthco is all it takes to be in business. There are plenty of 627 8-shooters out there already.

I'd go that way.

Bob.

A16841

Edited January 30, 2010 by S&WIowegan

[Bubber]

I did a search and found some stuff. It was buried quite deep. I did not know it has been that long since it was brought up. dead horse Depending on stage design, And most go with the 8 shot arrays or there is a sweet spot where an 8 shot would save a couple of reloads, even scoring minor it would be an unfair advantage for the 8 shot. Besides I shoot minor anyway...Oh I may claim major, but I shoot minor just kidding. later rdd

[open17]

Interesting question.

If the stages are primarily "8 round nuetral" then 8 rd minor revolver might just

be competitive. It would mess with the database on a few 7 and 8 rd classifiers.

Might bring some new folks over to the wheelgun--heck, I might even buy one

with extra holes to keep my 625 company.

[Carmoney]

It would mess with the database on a few 7 and 8 rd classifiers.

The database is such a friggin' mess in Revolver Division already.....B-level shooters who are selective about the classifiers they shoot (or just happen to shoot the ones that have the "easy" high hit factors) can become Ms and GMs waaaaaaaay too easily. This has been a problem for several years. The class inflation in Revo is way outta control.

[S&WIowegan]

The database is such a friggin' mess in Revolver Division already.....B-level shooters who are selective about the classifiers they shoot (or just happen to shoot the ones that have the "easy" high hit factors) can become Ms and GMs waaaaaaaay too easily. This has been a problem for several years. The class inflation in Revo is way outta control.

He He He

Bob

A16841

[snertley]

I was thinking we beat this horse like 8 months ago, I guess it still had some life in it. USPSA Revolver is not Single Stack. Get over it.

If you want to shoot an 8 shooter great, there is Production.

If you want to shoot an 8 shooter great, there is Open.

If you want to shoot an 8 shooter great, fire 6 shots and reload.

If you want to shoot minor, great. You are scored as minor. Pretty simple.

Someone please throw away the beating stick please.

[JohnRodriguez]

if you want a quick comparison on how a 6 shot revo would compare to a 8 shot in a major match, then look at the results from the 2009 Area 2 match. John Bagakis beat Brad White and Vic Pickett with a 6 shot. Brad and Vic were both shooting open 8 shots. You can see the overall results on the area 2 web site. John finished 171.

http://uspsa2.org/match_results/match_disp.php?match=20091115&club=A2