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Red and Black!!! Tech Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guy

[ Its not full and it's looking good. One day match. Saturday. No match hotel, but we have some options for you. Some semi serious distance on the rifle (around 320). I was cutting trees to give us a clear field of fire yesterday. Snakey I am just curious.............what is snakey??? Does the mean the difficulty level is purposfully elevated and and subject to mistake on the part of the shooter?? Guy Hawkins P.S. I missed the last shotgun match because of the weather and would sorely like to attend another match in your area.

Kelly is usually 34.452% faster than Bennie. Listen to Kelly since he is more of a scholar on this subject. I am afraid I can be of no real help since I am blind in my left eye (and I am 34.451% faster than Bennie). I am joking about Bennie (which is way to easy to do by the way) but I am not joking about by eye, listen to Kelly. Guy Hawkins

Does anyone know the match hotel for this year or the one for the last year? Also any other hotels in the area that are relativly clean and cheap. Anyone from the area that can give me alternatives at a higher end hotel (Radison or the like) close to the range would be considered. Thanks and feel free to email me directly. Guy

Cheryl, I would never advocate you not having your 40 rd'r! I love chicks that shoot well as long as it is not at me. P. E. Kelly, I have shot both Bushmasters and JP's and there is a sight difference infavor of the JP. In an extemely close race between a regular rifle and a JP, the JP woud prevail. Keep in mind I rock with Bushmaster, and I still state this. They make the best basic rifle on the market. It is freakish that the JP virtually does not move (with a Coolie comp) while other rifles I have shot have a pronounced recoil impulse (16" or 20" ......it happens and it can be compensated for, but it is there), and I can not deny it! Kelly Neal will have me buying him a beer for the previous comment, but it is true. Kelly I think it should be a small beer so you don't get busted, Mr. officer of the court, while you drive me home since I presume to have no such restrictions since you will drive. And Mike.........I think you need to stay in the UK so I can move up a place or two! Your comments are really profound and I hope they are read and paid attention to by those who should take it for the unbiased comment on our current rules problem. Thanks for your comment. Tell Barry I look forward to seeing you two in Greece, along with the german tourist girls! I will only look.........I promise. KN you have to cover me buddy! I can't help myself. I am a freakin' heathen. Guy Hawkins P.S. Hope to see you all at the next match! All of you thanks for your friendship!

'Having people reholster hot on the clock WILL lead to people blasting themselves. I'm not particularly worried about Kurt or Guy or even myself reholstering hot....' Kelly, You just want me to shoot myself!!! LOL! Ok, let us make it a contest between myself, Kurt and you to see which one can shoot himself first.............hold on...........BLAM!!!!! I WIN!! Guy

I don't like all the negative vibes man!! LOL! Kurt, you have some good points and so do all the other folks who have contributed to this thread to help out in the development of 3-Gun rules for USPSA. I really appreciate so much time an effort being put in to 'doing it right' in forming the rules. If it is not finalized this year that is cool with me as I would rather it be done right from the start. So please don't rush it if it will just have to be redone later. That always causes more problems and grumbling. I want to give all those working on it a BIG, HUGE, GIANT THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think the big argument should be that inovation should not be stifled in forming the rules. I shoot iron sighted rifle and plain jane shotgun and pistol as well (and I do not condsider myself 'Limited'. I know Kelly Neal will disagree with that, LOL!). I think the really important issue is don't limit the inovation on some of the shooters who participate. There is going to be inovation in equiptment for tactical/limited class equiptment in the future as well, let's not stifle it. It seems like maybe the rules always seem to be formed to guarantee an open shooter will always be the best overall shooter in the match. If the mag limit is in place it will almost guarantee it. Open shooters should not win (be high overall against all those competing in all classes) because of superior equiptment but because they are superior shooters. Why is there an undercurrent of 'you can't really compete unless you are open'? At the TX 3-Gun 2 or three years ago, when an iron sighted shooter did well (me), a comment was made that went something like' those damn limited shooters' I guess because an iron sighted shooter did well against the open people. It made me feel like they thought the 'underclass' was an abomination and should be forbidden from doing well. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion but that seemed moronic to me ( and yes.... I am calling that person who made that comment a moron, please feel free to look me up and we will 'talk' about it if you wish). The fact is that USPSA should promote all equiptment levels to inovate. I don't think the rules should have an undercurrent, saying in so many words to a competitor, 'If you really want to play you have to go to open class'. That just doesn't seem right to me. For some competitive types it may make them not want to shoot if they can't afford the 'real' equiptment like the 'real' shooters have and then USPSA will be the loser. Why tell some person they can not have as much fun as open by disallowing them a hicap for their rifle. I for one will not appreciate it. I don't like equiptment races but hicap mags are not that racey, are they? I know it may seem 'inapropriate' consider who is high overall because the rules make several competitors 'high overall' in their class, which they are placed in because of their equipment, but alot of people do look at the overall top shooter(s) in the total field of all competitors (I do it to analyze what equiptment REALLY works in different types of shooting settings). If one rifle class is limited in mag capacity I will not be able to do that. Why don't we make all classes limited to 10rds like IDPA? I mean if a Californian can't have a high cap mags shouldn't we make it equal for everyone? Did that sound socialistic? LOL!! I swear I am not a socialist! I see no difference between 10rds and 30rds limits but lets make them on open too, it just seems 'fair', right?. It just chaps my a-- that we are in a position we have to limit ourselves because of stupid laws in place in some states. In general, it just seems silly to limit the rifle mag capacity in any class. If someone wants to lug a heavier mag (that won't let them move the gun as well and runs the risk of being hung up in close quarters stages) let them do it in all classes. I don't like the mag limit for tactical/limited, just my opinion. This is kinda off the thread but pertains to the upcoming 3-Gun Nationals. What is up with a couple of the RO's viewing their main job, at the USPSA 3-Gun Nationals, to do everything in their power to DQ people. This is the main reason I have not attended but have attended other major matches. I have heard the stages are great, the facility is great and most of the RO's are great and excellent people but I fear attending because of what I have heard of the mass DQs. If I sign up this year is it going to be a repeat of the horror stories I have heard in the past year? All I ever here is 'Man! This year they DQ's XX number of people' and 'hey the after first day XX number of people left because the RO's did XX'. I have attended alot of major matches and the comments are that at the 3Gun Nationals they have more people DQ'd than anywhere anyone can think of. Why?????? At most big matches (200-300 competitors) maybe one or two get DQ'd. Mostly they knew why and it was an obvious mistake. How many were DQ'd at the 3Gun Nationals this last year? In 2004 - 11 in tactical DQ'd which had 91 shooters, 3 DQ'd in open which had 88 shooters and 4 DQ'd in limited which had 32 shooters, 18 total out of 211 shooters. If my numbers are right, that is almost 10% of the total field! Please tell me this is not the norm!!!!! I know we must watch out for each others saftey but I have heard so many opinions from other, average and top, shooters that this is the biggest fear they have in attending the damn thing. Believe me I have been told it is not all the ROs just one or two. I for one do not want to take off a week to have a paranoid time at the match waiting to see if I am 'allowed' to finish by some Snidley Whiplash RO out to get as many as he can bag in a day. Hey, I promise not to break the 180 just don't make it where it has to my sole focus while the course of fire because it is so easiy to break it because of the course layout. I promise not to have my finger on the trigger but please don't DQ me if my finger is bent toward it outside of the triggerguard or if the RO can't see my finger and 'thinks' it is in the triggerwell. When I shoot I do not hyperextend a perfectly straight finger outside of the triggerguard and show it to the RO as I run. In my opinion that is just a plain silly thing to have to do. The RO's have a hard job and they always have my gratitude but maybe the overzealous ones should have a good time with the shooters too, but not by seeing how many they can DQ. Now that I have probably painted a bullseye on myself to get DQ'd now, I truly hope not to be DQ'd at the 3Gun Nationals for my comments herein. I have not signed up yet. Sincerely, Guy Hawkins TY-18161 P.S. I joined USPSA in 8/27/91 and don't plan on quitting. I also shoot IDPA and other independant matches and don't plan on quitting doing those either. I like USPSA, just give me a chance to shoot the 3-Gun nationals and have a good time doing it!

Well thought out, informative and contains rock star qualities. George......you Da Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guy Hawkins

I for one feel very romantic when I shoot..................... I just want to f-ing destroy the targets and then drink champagne! LOL! Guy Hawkins (I know I will probably get in trouble for this smartass comment but I can't help it)

If you guys have not noticed Blane is some kinda superman or something so stop giving him so much credit! He could have whipped the field blind with his shooting hand amputated. LOL! (Blane, good job!) Guy

Let those of us who did not attend know what happened!

'I'm all for the 30 round limit in Tactical and Limited.' Come on guys! I thought this sport was about experimentation and leaving it to the shooter to fiquire out (game) what they need to compete effectively. That being said, I think allowing more than a 30rd capacity is reasonable since folks carry them in guns they use daily, just look in the front passenger seat of my truck everyday. If someone wants to slug aroung a heavy beta mag on a stage I say let them. If that is going to be the rule we need to prohibit Redimags, stock mounted mag carriers and devices, dual mag holders and the like because they allow a quicker reload and make folks only have one 30rd, or lesser capacity, feeding device in the weapon (opps!!! I said weapon!! LOL!) during a course of fire. Why don't we limit them to 10 mags and call it the IDPA rifle class. What is next? A limit on the size of the front sight post or rear aperture? Weight limit on the rifle? Trigger pull weight limit? Are far as in open class, this is this same line of thinking that prohibits the use of two optics on a rifle when in real life they are in use in the sand pit right now (JP's ACOG-NSN mount with a J-point and other setups with forward mounts). The way I look at it is if it works go for it. I do not see people carrying around tube type speed loaders for shotguns though......... Guy Hawkins

Coolie is right. Just make sure to take your match gun (or match upper) out with you when you practice to put a few rounds through it as well. No matter how close you can get the setup matched up it will not be exact as to accuracy/point of aim and/or feel. Gas rings, cam pin, bolt body, barrel extention, comp and other parts will not have the same wear on them and you will get where you can feel the difference. Probably your match gun will feel 'tighter' and it will have a different recoil impulse. I have 2 uppers for one gun and another gun as well that I rotate and shoot at matches and practice with. There has been more than once when I will take one of my 'practice' uppers/guns to a match to shoot. I just don't get that up tight about it. We are shooting 3gun not precision rifle! Triggers will feel slightly different as well. I try to use the same ammo lot and only shoot the same confiquiration before going to a match. I know that doesn't sound like fun to those of you who have multiple guns and choose them like golf clubs right before matches for an advantage. I think consistancy is vastly more important. Guy Hawkins

Kurt, I agree with you that a Bushmaster barrel is usually great as far as consistancy of group position and size and usually accurate (matter of fact almost every time is accurate!). But I must agree with Kelly that if the barrel is cryo'd (like JP's) it probalbly is more likely to stay consistant when it gets hot and zero will not be as likely to 'float around'. I have shot Bushmasters for years and don't seem to have a problem competeting with them, please no smartass comments Kelly! But when I pick up a JP with a Coolie comp on it even I must admit there is a difference in control of the weapon because of the comp and the lengthened gas tube (I shoot a dissipator with a short gas system). I don't have a problem with the Bushmaster because, like you, I have put tens of thousands of rounds through the same model and I am used to the recoil. If you are on a budget, or if you just want a good value for your money, Bushmasters are the greatest without equal (shameless, and honest, plug for Bushmaster!!). But I will not begrudge someone for wanting a JP either for the slight advantage it may give them. The fact remains if you put in the time training it will pay off more on average than putting your dollars toward and finer piece of equiptment, but better equiptment never hurt either. On another note, I wish you and everyone else good luck ar SSM3G!! I burned myself and I can't go. Do well and may the best person win! Guy Hawkins P.S. Kelly you have permission to slay all those who oppose you. Lawyers Rule!

I like AZ Charlies!! It is older but cheap, clean and closer to the range. If I shoot in Vegas I don't mind staying there as long as my wife is not with me, then I stay at Mandalay Bay. Guy

Kelly and Bennie, My time is at least 2-3 seconds behind yours, but I look cooler doing it! LOL! Good luck you guys at the SSM3Gun. I can't go because I burned myself. (No Kelly it was not under the same conditions as Richard Pryor) Good luck Guys!! Guy P.S. Bennie we need to talk on your 'field' stock you sold me.

My 5" gun is set up with a 12lb to 15lb recoil spring and a 17lb mainspring. I would like to use 185gr to 200gr bullets. I want a fast cycling / low recoil load that behaves like a light bullet .40 S&W load (155gr) and/or a 9mm recoil impulse. I know I am shooting for the moon in my wants and wishes herein but if you have any ideas let me know. And I like Vit powders.................. I know I am asking the impossible but any ideas will be considered. Thanks!

What the heck is BIGHAMPS?????????

This is kinda off the subject of Bennies fine shotgun match. Lets have a destuctive device match!! Wakal's USAS shotgun, automatic grenande launchers, mini-guns, flamethrowers, claymores, foogas and my ex-wife's mouth!!

Out back???? Sheep???? Is there a story here??? I lived in Oklahoma and I know what that means there..................... Wait a minute..................................... Kurt you are in Oklahoma now right??? LOL!!! Guy

DAMN TEXANS!!!!!?????? Those are fightin' words!!! LOL!!

Buy a Benelli, Take a slight recoil hit, And have a weapon that functions! Guy Hawkins

Me too! Let us know what we have to do to get our guns and mags in and back out of the communist republic of California. It still amazes me that so many good freedom loving folks populate the state........... ya'll are the greatest!!!!

Has anyone fiquired out when the USPSA 3gun nationals going to be held? Or where? (I have been practicing overextending my finger out and away from the trigger and I think I may be ready) If I don't find out soon I am screwed! Are there any 3gun, shotgun or rifle matches out of the country this next year anyone knows about?

I clean my factory M1 Super 90 12gauge (18.5" barrel, ghost ring sights, 7 shot extention and a straight stock) only if it not going to be used within a month or more or if it gets very dirty. If I am shooting alot I will just lube the bolt lugs and bolt carrier rails until it gets dirty. I consider it to be dirty if I have shot 1-2 cases of clean burning shotgun shells or I have been training in the dirt alot. I have gone as long as 4 cases of shells (or more) and I had no problem. Keep in mind I am using 1 1/8 oz. shot loads and if you are using lighter shot loads your gun is going to be more tempermental (with the factory springs) and it will need to be kept REALLY WELL CLEANED AND WELL LUBED (and it still may not run right). I have found the M1 Super 90 to much more sensitive to the shot weight (less than 1 1/8 oz weight) than to the amount of powder charge........ whether the gun is clean or dirty! But I am sure we will have others chime in on the ammo situation with a stock benelli here in a while. Here is how I clean mine and I wish you luck in cleaning yours! UNLOAD THE SHOTGUN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then, strip down the shotgun by seperating the barrel, forend, mag extention/follower and spring, trigger assembly, extention and bolt assembly. I place all the parts except the stock/frame assembly in a naptha bath in a large parts cleaner. I have a rod with a brush and I put it on an electric drill and go all through the barrel being careful to watch the choke to make sure it is not loose, but I do not remove it, I do not lube or oil the barrel. I inspect the nut on the ghost ring front sight for looseness by hand. Clean the mag spring, follower and extention tube and oil the mag spring only with light oil. (Hint: the biggest problem with this shotgun (and many other semi shotguns) is it won't run right if the mag spring is weak, err on the side of replacing it if it does not stick out of the mag tube a generous amount (I have one that is 29-30 " long and it works fine. Brownells sells an extra long spring part# 301-000-115 that is an excellent replacement, when in doubt with this part REPLACE IT!). I clean the stock/frame assembly with a rod with a rag through the magazine tube and wipe down the inside and outside of the frame, I do not oil inside the frame (I will do that on the bolt) and inspect the rear sight for any damage ot looseness. Then I make sure not to get solvent in the recoil spring/tube assembly )a small amount won't hurt) but I then place a rod into it and check it for 'grittiness' to see if it needs to be cleaned, if it does (not often, I have done it twice) I remove the buttpad off the stock and I let it soak with naptha, work it and blow out all solvent making sure it is bone dry,then moderately oil it then blow out the excess oil with an air compresser. If it is not real dirty (gritty) I MAY put a small amount of oil down the tube and work it in with a rod by moving the spring with the rod. Lots of people remove the spring and grease it, I use oil. All during this time the trigger group and disassembled bolt assembly are soaking. I spray out the trigger group with a cleaning spray or naptha then air hose it out so it is dry, then I inspect it to make sure the clips that hold the tubes in place are still there and check everything else as well. I then put one drop or oil in the saftey spring/detent hole and place a small amount on the other areas that parts move or just spray the whole thing and blow away the excess with an air hose then wipe the outer portion off with a almost dry naptha soaked rag and cock the hammer back and place it on saftey. If you spray the whole thing it will attract more dirt. I then thoughly clean the bolt assembly parts seperately. I oil and blow off the excess on the springs (firing pin and the heavy bolt spring) and bolt and carrier bodies. I place a drop of oil on the base extractor where the spring is and work the extractor but do not put any on the extractor hook itself. Put a small amount of tetra lube on the cam pin and roll it in your fingers. Then I reassemble the bolt carrier assembly (make sure the extractor is facing to the right of the bolt). Place tetra lube, sparingly, on the bolt lugs and the carrier body rails where it contacts the frame and put it back in the frame making sure the rod portion orients correctly with the recoil spring tube and spring follower. I then push in the bolt release button on the frame and then place the trigger assembly in the frame holding the bolt release button in. If you don't do this the gun won't work! Replace the trigger group retaining pin. Lock the bolt open. If it won't you did not press in on the bolt release when you put in the trgger group. I place the barrel in the forend, making sure the metal rings in the forend are still there, and then push the barrel COMPLETELY into the receiver and over the mag tube. Replace the follower first, then the mag spring and extention tube or mag cap, and make sure the barrel is all the way in the receiver, and then tighten the extention nut handtight (not gorilla-man tight) with your hand, not pliers. Replace the mag tube clamp, if any. FIRST MAKE SURE IT IS UNLOADED! Now fuction test the weapon: Point the weapon in a safe direction The bolt should still be locked in the open position! Drop the bolt. hand cycle it, it should not lock open. Place it on safe and pull the trigger, the hammer should not drop. Take off the saftey and pull the trigger, it should fall. Pull the bolt to the rear, it should lock back. If it does not lock back repeat the trigger assembly instructions paying particular note to pressing the bolt catch button completely in and holding it while replacing the trigger assembly. If you are worried about rust you can wipe down the exposed metal with a rag with light oil, but will attract more dirt. Store it with the bolt closed and the hammer dropped (do so in a safe direction!) and UNLOADED!! Remember that you do not want to weaken the spring in the mag tube. If you do keep it load I would have a fresh spring I would rotate into the weapon before a match. (I think I remembered everything, but if not, ya'll correct me) I hope this helps! Good luck and have fun! Guy Hawkins