matteekay

I've never had to do this, but it definitely makes sense at a single division competition. It'd be pretty easy to spot a holster in front of the hip bone, etc. Just out of curiosity - do they make everyone stick their gun in the box? Or only if it looks really suspect?

A few people did. I think JAFO was the first to actually cite the rule (useful in these situations). Anyhow, live and learn, which is preferable to living and not learning (which makes for a crappy RO).

Yup, that's how we arrived in this particular quandary. I figured we were going roundabout enough with the conversation to just reach out to NROI directly. Their response: - Don't start the shooter per 8.2.1. Not sure why we kept quoting every rule except for the one that literally calls out division requirements, lol. - If the shooter refuses to comply, you technically have grounds for a DQ under 10.6 It's been mentioned a few times but I think a somewhat gentler approach is acceptable at the club level with a new shooter. Much as I looooooooove DQ'ing people (sarcasm).

I don't believe he was saying to ignore it. I think he meant it's not the RO's duty to correct them ahead of time - just bump them to Open after they finish their CoF.

He was shooting a CZ. I know the class he went to and the instructors; I have the strong impression that the misinformation was a problem with the receiving end and not the transmitter. Also, I’m hoping that the whole experience will encourage him to read his rule book and take responsibility for being in compliance with his chosen division. In terms of my actions... true, I could have stalled the squad, called for the RM, have everyone wait while a second person explains what I just said, etc. I felt the better course of action was to explain the rule, what the potential consequences are, and then leave it up to him and keep the match going. I caught up with the RM between stages so we lost the least amount of time possible.

Correct. I advised him that Production requires a hammer-down start, he insisted that the class he took a few weeks before informed him that he could begin cocked and locked. I believe this was his first or second match. I told him that the rules didn't agree and that the penalty for starting that way would most likely be a move to Open and that I'd have to verify (because I don't like being the RO who spouts rulings when I'm not 100% certain). He chose to start his stage cocked and locked. Kicked it to the RM afterward who validated that he could not start with his hammer back. We opted to let him finish the match in Production provided he started in the correct configuration – this was a small club match, and we'd rather instruct and have shooters be informed. I believe he zeroed that stage anyway.

In b4 someone misses the joke, lol...

I did, hence why we're having this conversation.

It wasn't specifically listed in the 2014 rulebook, so you had to direct shooters to a 2014 NROI ruling. They've added it directly to the new addendum.

LOL, much as I'd like to some times... This actually wasn't overly hostile, but it's one of the VERY few clear rules in the book. Production = hammer down. I'm glad they've clarified that to include decockers in the latest addendum. Right, the spirit of the penalty to me was "division non-compliance", which is always a bump to Open as far as I can tell. The funny thing is that he was geared for Limited - CZ, mags capable of holding 18+ rounds, etc. I think he thought Production would be less competitive, which has really become a lol-worthy sentiment lately.

So it's on the RO to wait until they make the correction? What if they refuse? Asking ENTIRELY hypothetically because I TOTALLY didn't have a shooter try to tell me I was wrong...

Boy, I love Production rules, lol. Start position on Production guns is clear as crystal (finally): "Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked at the start signal. If a decocking lever is installed and used, the term fully decocked is the position where the hammer rests once the decocking lever has been used. Altering a factory installed decocker to bring the hammer to rest at less than a half cocked position is not allowed. Manually decocked hammers must be fully down." - Appendix D4 Addendum, Special Conditions So... what happens to a competitor who starts with a DA/SA gun, hammer cocked with the safety on ? It would be obvious if they didn't activate the safety – match DQ: "(a DQ is issued when) A double action or selective action pistol with the hammer cocked and the safety not applied." - 10.5.11.2 With the safety ON, my gut is that it's a quick trip to Open Minor. This is the only close ruling I could find: "A hammer is considered to be in the "hammer down" position when the hammer is placed there by pulling the trigger while manually lowering the hammer, (manually decocking) or by activating the decocking lever if present. Manually decocking to the half-cocked position is not allowed and will result in the competitor being moved to Open division." - NROI Ruling "Trigger Action Requirements for Production Division", 05/20/15 Does anyone know a better one?

To close the loop on the initial question (I was searching for something simliar): A DQ is issued if... 10.5.11 Holstering a loaded handgun, in any of the following conditions: 10.5.11.1 - A single action self-loading pistol with the safety not applied. 10.5.11.2 - A double action or selective action pistol with the hammer cocked and the safety not applied. Technically you wouldn't have a safety but you'd still be holstering the gun in an unsafe condition covered under either of the above.

...and that post is from one year ago .

Of course!

They’re David Tillander grips. He can do any color.

I made a playlist of my stages at the ICORE 2018 Rocky Mountain Regionals: Apologies that the video isn't great; I can't always tell where my knockoff GoPro is pointing. Long story short, I did decent (2/3 in Limited 6, 3/6 in L6 + Classic, 22/40 overall). A better shooter than me could probably really make this gun sing. For now, more practice... and then the 2018 IRC.

Lol. Usually I’m a solid C.

Well, if it’s worth anything, I shot my first ever “B”-rated classifier in USPSA tonight using the Charging Rhino, lol.

Oh, the last thing I should probably mention is the trigger shape. It's very wide - think like old-school S&W "target" triggers. I basically ride the outer edge with the first joint of my index finger but I'm still trying to find a totally consistent pull.

Indeed. To be blunt - I got really bored with shooting revolver. The 627 was finicky and I felt like I was fighting it all the time, so I figured, "what the hell, I'm terrible anyway, I'd at least like to shoot a gun I enjoy". I flipped the 627 and picked up a Charging Rhino. It works well. Better than a standard Rhino with a trigger job, IMHO. The only misfires I've had were with factory ammo (but that's true of about any tuned revolver, regardless of make). I'm going to be running it for the next few months leading up to the IRC so hopefully I can get some mojo going.

Oh, I assume you reload since you shoot revolver, but you pretty much have to to run this gun. It’ll set off Federal and Winchester primers all day long provided they’re fully seated. It’s nice that it works so well with Winchester so I don’t have to burn my dwindling supply of Federals. I did give it a whirl with factory ammo a few times. Federal always went boom, Winchester occasionally didn’t.

I use a Charging Rhino in competition and I used to use a 40DS in .38 . The Charging trigger pull is a hair above 7 lbs and smooth, but a little wonky. It’s heavier up front, then fast, and then a little heavy at the end. It’s in no way insurmountable but you do have to get used to it. I like how fast the 9mm reloads but you need to push them all the way into the cylinder. I’ve had them go in slightly proud, and I could close the cylinder but it wouldn’t turn. Again, you learn the quirks of it like any other gun. The only other negative is that the pull is longer than a Smith so you find yourself working a little harder on double taps. I imagine it’s the same for people who run Rugers. I greatly prefer the angle of the Charging grips over the factory ones as they’re a little more vertical and get you closer to the trigger. I buy the clones that David Tillander makes and then grind off the lower finger groove as it doesn’t match up with my (admittedly small) hands. Hogue does make Big Butts but I emailed them and apparently they’re not for sale to the public. In terms of how it stacks up to other guns... I dunno. I sucked with my 40DS, I sucked with a Smith 627, and I suck with the Charging Rhino. I did make 50%+ in USPSA revo with the 627 but it’s hard to compare since that carries two extra shots in minor. Ask me whatever you’d like to know and I’ll try to help. Or, on the long shot that you’re attending the IRC or Rocky Mountain Regionals, you’re more than welcome to check it out.

Yes! I’ll be there - it’s a blast.

Exactly! I have a safe full of Friday guns, lol.