standles

This may be a little "thinking outside the box" but you say the reason you need to move is the commercial value of the current club. Perhaps it needs to be devalued. Without a doubt it has lead contamination. With a gentle nudge, I wonder if the EPA might reclassify the county land such that it wouldn't be viable for commercial development due to extensive cleanup costs. Tls Sounds good but the crux is they just don't want us shooting there. Under the current rules and regs they can have the sherriff dept go out once a year and fire .22's and it would be considered a range so no cleanup but no active club there either. BTW.. That was one of the first things we thought of. The develpers wil develop all around it leaving it in the middle. We already went to the trouble of getting all the EPA stuff and best practices awards for it. Steven

Thanks for all the responses. Here is where we stand.. We might have a bank that is willing to take the land as 50% collateral and our CDs as the other half then finaince 100% of the purchase at 8.5% interest. If this comes through we will most likely take advantageof the offer and get the land bought. FWIW the land across the road for us just went on the market for 5K/acre and has a pending offer on it already. The other option we are looking at is forming an LLC of some core members (40) and each kicking in 5000. The LLC would then loan the money to the Gunclub Corp at 8% interst with payoff in 2 years. If the club defaults on the loan then the land reverts to the investor LLC and we sell at market to recoup losses. With either option we then have to address the payback of the loan as well as improvements. The leading method is to assess each member a one time fee of 500 and raise the dies to 100/year. We would also make all membership come due at one time so club can guage yearly income better for financial purposes. New memberships wouold have to pay the 500 initiation fee and the 100/year dues. One last hurdle is disparity in club members (those that care and want to see it advance and those that just want to pay a fee and shoot). I had floated an idea that the Gunclub corp offer 2000 investment units for 500 each. These units can be purchased only by gunclub members with at least 5 years of continuous membership. The untis can only be sold back to the Gunclub Corp. IF a waiting list is needed then first come first serve. The benefit is that these units is they are voting units. IF you want to have a vote in club business then you have to hold at least one voting unit. IF you just want to shoot and not be bothered by club business then pay your yearly dues and shoot away. This lets folks that are striving to better the club proceed and those that could care less stil have a place to shoot. What is does not allow is the shooter that could care less about the club until it is time to vote on an issue then riles up and bocks the effforts of the other members. If your going to be involved then be involved not just sit back until all the work is done and become a roadblock. It is still being CUSSED and DISCUSSED Steven

I htought you were going to say dry-fire practice Steven

+1 on what P99 said. I had to tighten mine up a bit to handle the IDAP holster gap rule but it was a cinch. I really like mine. Steven

She was in 8th grade at the time. The topic kinda got snuck by them because its title was Forensic Analysis of Wounds. *snicker* She also shot every round. She has always shot with me from the time she would stand between my legs shooting the .22 till today (17yrs old) where she shoots competition in Steel,IDPA and USPSA. Her greatest leap in skills came not from my teaching but from Matt Burkett. He really told her nothing I hadn't been telling her but for some reason she listened to him LOL! For steel I offered to download her ammo and her response was "NO leave it major so I can get more practice controlling recoil." She also loves that 686. She has already told me when the alzhiemers kicks in it is hers LOL! Have a good one, Steven PS. carinab lets see some more of her artwork !

Get ready... My daughter was REQUIRED to do a science project last year. When asked what topics were available the teacher smarted off and said just pick something. My daughter decided to use my S&W 686 and do forensic wound analysis (fired rounds into plumbers putty and sectioned it). She asked could she have the empty revolver on the display with the different loads she used. They said absolutely not. She responded but your having it at the fairground buildings where they have the gunshows. Whats the difference? LOL! Nice thing is the range donated the range time as well as a box of each defensive round they had for the .357. After she had collected her data several folks on the line asked her to shoot thier loads (.32 .38 .40 .45) into the clay for comparison. When the judge smugly asked what her followup was for next year shye responded "She was going to repeat but use ballistic gel pured around pig bones to look at defelction of the rounds for bone hits." And no she did not win one thing *sigh*

I use wilsons on my single stack and I use an old firing pin to depress the detent in the pad and slide it off. Remove the pad /spring/follower out the rear end of the mag. Knock or blow and debris out, swab with a silicone gun rag, wipe spring down and reassemble. Open I have the brush illustrated above and dawson basepads. I can break it down and brush it out and have it back in operatin in less than a minute. Steven

Ok I will be the Smart*ss ... The front sight is usually located on the front of the weapon on top of the bbl/slide above the boreline. Snicker Just thought I would be literal since some of us have problems at times remembering where it is at. Steven

Raising the dues is a must either way. But right now we need the purchase money or it doesn't matter. We need finance ideas to pursue the land deal and we need our ducks in a row in 90 days. Didn't think about an AG company finance I will have to look into that avenue. Thanks for the suggestions folks and keep um coming. Steven

All: You may remember a post a while back by mtself entitled "help save our range". Thanks for all that responded. While we did get a repreieve we are not saved. Long story short.... The county owns the land, the land after 40+ years has now become valuable as development property, Our lease allows them to give us 16 days notice to vacate, the club is stagnant since now improvements can be done and finally as time continues pressure mounts. What I am asking now is to feed off the collective conciousness that is this forum to help us get a new range. We currently have a line on ~60 acres of land zoned agricultural (1 house every 20 acres) and is a very good setup for a new range (electricity paved road access and remote). Buying the land and building our new range allows us to come under the protrection of the Florida range act. We have some funds available (about 200K) but are going to need that for development. We talked to banks and they want 30% down, 8-8.5% interest, and a garantor (co-signer that has no legal claim to the property but is on the hook if default occurs). Club background. Current membership ~750 with dues at 50.00 / year and no monthly assesment. Current folks that actively participate in the club/ club business ~40 Current club is in the woods behind a swamp down a gravel road in an old gravel pit. Current yearly income ~15000.00 Club members have had several chances in the past to buy land but could never get past squabbling amongst themselves. The 60 acres is going to cost 4K/acre and is ~45mins further out from current location. One idea put forth to self fund the land purchase is to sell investment units. These are like bonds municipalities issue. Each unit would be 5K and return 8% with a payout at 5 and 10years. This would raise the capital needed to buy the land and then the club funds used to handle operation and development. Problem is that is steep for some to handle. At the last meeting 41 people attended. 27 voted to buy land, 6 signed a non-binding list that they were more interested in the 5K deal. The second part of this would be an increasse in dues to 100/year. I figure we will loose ~40% of the members due to the location change and the dues increase. We are pursuing this but would like to hear other options. With all the knowledge here I am sure you have faced similar issues. I would love to hear how your club dealt with this issue. Even if you haven't directly dealt with this but you have an idea let me know. We are openly seeking solutions. Thanks alot, Steven

Well I was going to sing Matt's praises but most all has been said about his teaching and skills. So a BIG +1[/size=7] on the Matt connection. Instead I will relate my training. I went for pistol. He TAUGHT me much more. He taught as in I learned was not sjust shown. He shows you the why an how of a technique. He also encourages you to take the basics and experiment to find out what works for you. IE don't do it just because I told you to find you groove. He also took me in 15 minutes having never shot anything over 200yds with a rifle and had explained the mildot system demonstrated the procedure for long disance shooting and had me hitting a 600yd plate consistently. Then he did the same for my 16 year old daughter that had never shot a rfle. You may go for rifl, pistol, or shotgun but you will get much more. Compliment him a couple of times and he can't resist demoing his toys. You also get the world of experience of what works and doesn't. I resisted the training for a long time due to equating "but I could spend all that money on ammo and be that much better". *BUUUUZZZZZ* Wrong answer I know I tried for years. Matt is money well spent and easily orth ten times the same dollar amount of ammo. Besides you don't have to look at his ugly mug all day you might get to meet his beautiful wife Steven

IN our club it was once noted that we have ~40 members and 450 customers. My opinion is that I do not want to be a member of a range. I want to be a member of a club. Club in this context is defined as a varied group of folks sharing the common interest of shooting sports and who lwish to be involved with others in this pursuit. Between the CLUB members we regulary keep up with each other and iif one of us gets sick/hurt help is there unasked. While the distinction can be subtle it is a distinction. The group of 40 I am involved with regularly shoots and runs the club. We deal with the local govs, club issues, etc. etc. One might say great why don't you keep on keeping on and live and let live. Well the other "customers" could care less about advancing the club in general to something more than a gravel pit. There is no help on clean-up days, destruction of property, trashy behaviour etc. etc. When caught it is dealt with but you have to have someone that cares to do something. I would much rather raise the dues significantly and thin the herd rather than tolerate the other behaviour. Nothing against the hunters that want to sight in deer rifles etc but that doesn't mean they should be absent from the club except the day before deer season. Oh well my opinion. Steven PS> Some may ask what I am doing other than griping.... I am now on the BOD and I am involved in trying to revive a USPSA club as well as give beginner classes and help in PR.

I looked seriously at the Rhino and the Line-X brand of spreay in liners. They are basically the same material with different application methods. I looked at both and both looked good. I have a friend that has Rhino and it faded to grey from black. I also saw where Rhino dealers are independents. Having dealt with an independent dealer before I didn't know how good thier "lifetime warranty" would be. So..... I went with linex and thier lifetime warranty that is good regardless of the dealer as it is corporate issued. Steven

I have used both. I used a hornady projector then converted to the lnl. I had major problems that the factory though trying could never correct. Mainly it was due to inconsistent operation and forever more having to adjust the shellplate and rotation mechanisms. I bought a Dillon 500 and have never looked back. In my opinion the Dillon is a better made machine and mre reliable. The customer service was good with the hornandy but I have not needed Dillon Customer service after ~12000 rounds of vairous calibers. My only decision now is to upgrade to the 650/1050 or not. Standles

I hunted deer early on with a .243. I placed good shots that had minimal effect on the deer. the 100grainers can only carry so much momentum. If you have any foliage in the way such as brush or such then the lighter bullet is going to deflect. In my opinion the 7mm-08 or a regular .308. I liked the latter due to easier to find ammo, wider selection of bullet weights and configurations, larger selection of rifles in that caliber, etc. etc. Now I agree a 243 can take deer but efficiently and reliably I will disagree on that. Even with the larger calibers shot placement is more critical than the caliber. If they can put the 243 through the eye at 200yds then go ahead. I once killed a duck with a bb gun at 20yds. Does that make it a suitable weapon for duck hunting? NO. Primary duty as a responsible hunter is to use a weapon that can reliably and quickly dispatch the animal. A wounded animal is a failure of the hunter and/or his equipment. I have passed up many shots out of respect for my quarry rather than risk an injured animal. Standles

I did bascially the same thing. Then I had a suspect round make it through into the big bin. Once you have had fun weighing ~800 rounds trying to find the suspect you will see the wisdom in the smaller bin. standles

The franklin Arsenal Vibratory filler and extra dillon tubes. It takes me about 15 mins to load 1000 primers in the tubes and then I am off to the races. Much more economical than the Dillon Solution. I load 500-1000 at a time 2 times a month. I use wincherster primers and they come out of the tray perfect ready for thier vibrator.

If you have any more suggestinos let me know. Steven

I took out my pwder funnel and polished it real well on the buffer. Note polished not regorund like a buddy of mine did. This eliminated about 90% of my issue. The final 10% is taken care of by me wiping my fingers on the funnel (coated in spray on case lube from filling the case bin) when I topp off primers. Light coat. Light enough you wonder whether it would be any use. Steven Ps. I am using the U die and new/once fired brass

Thanks alot for all of your ideas and suggestions. One of my issues is there was a USPSA club at this range a while back. "Northwest Florida Practical Shooters". From what I can ascertain the organizer had some of the same issues I am seeing. Add to that the range requires any club to carry its own insurance as well as the MD taking the liability. (I get a pass until I become official) I had a core of 4 others that before we even started jumped on the bandwagon and pledged to help. Well that is now down to two and sometimes they "have other things to do". I have only held 4 matches and can see where this can getout of hand real quick. The first three were 5 stage 100-120 round matches. The last one was 4 stage and 60 rounds. The area to work in is one bay ~80 yds wide and 110 yds long. Both USPSA, IDPA and SASS would like at least 5 individual bays 50yds deep. It is a longshot since the range does not own the land and the county really would like to see us gone. The range primarily is made up of plinkers and folks that sight their deer rifles in once a year. Nothing wrong with that but hard to convince them to shoot for competition. I had one guy call me to complain about the 120 round count match because he shot .45 and would have to buy 3 boxes of ammo to shoot just one match. I offered to spot him the rounds for his first trip but he was a no show. Another wanted more steel in the matches. He caught me at a low spot and I told him that was a great idea. Showed him where we kept the steel and told him I would be out there next match to help him setup his stages. He complained that it was not enough to worry with. I told him buy some and donate it to the club like I did for targets/pasters/timers/tgt stands/ etc. etc. I appreciate the conversation as it in itself is encouraging to know others face these same issues. So Far I have decided to do the following. Advertise more to the club (Setting up a website for the club) Get some folks from the close by established clubs to shoot (See Above) Assign one person to do nothing but registration and squadding while setup goes on. I like the idea of 2 stages then incorporating them into a larger array. I also like opens at 8 and shooting starts when stages are setup. Rotate the Match Director on a regular basis. Thanks for all your help and encouragement. Steven

All: I have started to run a USPSA flavored match every month. I am trying to discern interest locally before going to the expense and effort to be an affiliated club. My question to you fine folks is this. How do you organize the stage setup portion and then the match reg/squadding on a local level? Here are my current constraints. Range is ~1.5 hours from my house. There is some onsite storage but not much Limited steel and barriers Setup starts at 7am-7:30 am with shooting starting at 10am It is usally only me and one or two others setting up. I hesitate to setup the day before because of the extra trip as well as the possibility of stuff being blown/rained/vandalized overnight. stages that are all paper and only require stands are easy enough. I would like to add some longer field courses but having to construct vision barriers out of safety fence or something the day of the match is pretty intensive. We have tried with the safety fence, 2x4 in tire rims for posts(they will blow over), plastic sheeting with holes cut in it but weak point is the poles. We can auger holes for the posts but that adds to the labor. Anyway... any tips and such you can drop my way would be appreciated. Steven

Hmm.. Never considered that aspect of the issue. Looks like I need to make some alterations to my routine. Thx for the tip (no pun intended)

Fantasy trading is good to learn the lingo and rules of the game so to speak. However, I would not immediately think that your fantasy trading would be indicative of real money trading. When real money is on the line people tend to be more cautious. Also when you have done the research on a company and held it for a while alot of folks tend to get attached to it. Both of these are bad juju for trading. Use it as a learning tool but not as an indicator of real life. Steven

Rob: Why must you store the cutting tips in the gunsafe? Were you being serious or was it a humerous John.. Oxy/Acet would be the way I would goinstead of propane. Lowes and/or HD sell good hobby torchces. As for bottles if you buy that is going to add about 300 more to the cost of the torch. Sounds like your not going to be running through it very fast so it might be an option. Make sure you keep the paperwork to prove you own the cyls if it is ever questioned. Another option is a portable bandsaw. Better than the abrasive and cheaper than the cutting rig for hobby type work on props. Grizzley for ~170.00 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DCZ7...glance&n=228013 or HF for around 70. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=47840

Don't wait for the sound of the steel before moving to next target. Trust your sight picture and trigger pull. Program the draw. Example I get into stance and put my left hand above shoulder, right on the grip. I then rotate my arm from the elbow up to ready position. Grip should be simple rotate back down. On the draw look at the exact spot on the first plate you want to hit. Hit it then worry about the next one. Look at the array and decide beforehand what pattern/movements you are going to make. Economy of motion is the goal When you declare your ready be sure you are Finally.... Have fun. Steel shooting is one of my favorite things to do.