Carmoney

Just to clarify Jim's post, there are 42 shooters scheduled for Sunday, and a total of 86 shooters in the match (according to the online squadding system). We had quite a few last-minute sign-ups at our Iowa Sectional a couple weeks ago, so I wouldn't be surprised to see that 86 grow significantly by the time it's all said and done at Polo. Now Jim, we may have made you run up and down the hill in our "Rambo" stages through the woods at our sectional, but we're still plenty familiar with flat-land shooting. After all, we do live here in Iowa......!

Yeah, it's for real. Between the collectors and the shooters, the 610s (especially the 5") are awfully high-priced these days. Bet that one goes up even more over the next six hours....

Well then, kudos to everyone involved!

Wow, that's great--Randy is really showing us his commitment to our sport! I tried Randy's Glock and 1911 trigger work on his table at the Steel Challenge a couple years ago, and I'm here to tell you it is top-notch stuff--if you're in need of that kind of work (not to mention the wizardry he performs on revolver actions), Randy's the guy you want to be working with. Randy, thanks for coming through again. You're setting a fine example.

Sam and I will be shooting our wheelguns on Sunday, looking forward to seeing everybody there!

........from Hearthco.

So you're saying S&W might quit asking themselves "what would Bubba want?" and start asking "what would Bubber want?"

Sam, please tell us this is some sort of hilljack calendar mix-up and you thought it was April Fool's Day! Seriously now--don't know what happened, but it's hard to believe that any reasonable person could get upset by anything you posted.

I'm one of the few guys out there still shooting from a Chapman stance (some called it "modified Weaver", strong arm extended and locked, weak arm pulling back on the strong arm like it's a rifle stock). This method works very well for controlling recoil, and can be wicked fast on plate racks and stuff like that, but it's not particularly flexible for shooting on the move. Gradually, I am working on incorporating the L/E modern isosceles into my game, especially for fast shooting on the move. In the L/E modern isosceles, the gun is extended out in essentially an isosceles stance, the arm muscles are fairly tight, but the elbows are not fully locked.

Ah, I've got way too many bad habits ingrained to show any pictures of me! I do like to hold the gun with the web of my hand way high up on the grip frame, like Sam is doing in the picture. You can see that cutting away the hammer spur is not just about reducing hammer weight (or making the gun look cool), it actually eliminates the possibility of binding the hammer if the web of the hand goes too high on the draw.

Mine are coming along too. Shopping at the Country Club Plaza (lots of high-end stores and ritzy stuff) seems to be the main attraction.

In terms of where the weak-hand index finger goes, my strong preference is the "Ayoob Wedge Hold", where the top of the middle finger contacts the bottom of the trigger guard, then the index finger jams itself under the trigger guard, as shown in the picture below. As Ayoob explains it, a "V-shaped wedge of flesh and bone holds gun on target against trigger jerks that would otherwise snap muzzle down or sideways. If you miss the wedge working at speed, you're still in a solid interlocking wraparound hold." (Stressfire, 1984.) Physiologically, I believe this technique to be an improvement on the basic wraparound, and I've used it to very good effect for many years. When it comes to grip, I don't believe a shooter should necessarily "go with what feels natural" or "use whatever works for you." Think about how unnatural it felt the first time somebody showed you how to properly grip a golf club--you just wanted to grab it like a ball bat, didn't you? And yet a baseball grip on a golf club is not very effective in the long run, compared to the several varieties of interlocking grip which have been developed. There are several methods of gripping a revolver that can work very well. Pick the one that gives you the best stability at speed and learn to do it right. Perhaps most important, hang on to that gun hard. Shooting a revolver with major power factor ammo is no time for "hold it like you're shaking hands" or any of that old bullseye nonsense. We don't have the reciprocating mass of a slide to cause the gun to automatically snap back on target, revolver shooters must rely on the muscle tension of their grip and stance to get that front sight back down where it belongs after every shot. That's right--tension is a good thing for us! So whatever you do, grip it hard with a solid hold that won't shift under recoil, hold it high up on the grip frame, back it up with a stance that keeps your body weight somewhat forward, and don't let your elbows get floppy.

Cool! Congratulations Phil!

I have always liked the soft rubber Hogues, even the finger grooves feel good to me, but then I keep the gun in my strong hand when I reload. Went through the Jerry grip phase, but they just weren't comfortable to me with extended sessions of major loads, took 'em all off and sold 'em.

Para mags and Dawson basepads. Best price on both appear to be available through good ol' Brownells!

I'm with Schoonie on this one. The activator didn't break, and it didn't malfunction. The problem was wholly caused by the conduct of the shooter. It was a simple honest mistake, but ultimately the problem was caused by carelessness on the part of the shooter. It was also completely "fixable"--simply flip the lid back shut with the foot and keep on runnin'. If this is range equipment malfunction, then what isn't??

Hacked????? Hacked????? Take a look at my hammer. It exhibits nothing but the finest rotary craftsmanship. I even applied a lovely brushed satin finish (after knocking off all the MIM sprues, of course).

I too have observed, although they insist their hi-tech chambers don't get sticky, the shooters with Ti cylinders do seem to brush, brush, brush their guns at the safe areas between stages. (Sometimes you even hear brushing sounds coming from the plastic shitters....) I can literally shoot multiple matches with my 625 without ever once brushing the chambers, and never have the gun get sticky. I agree.....there are lots of wheelgunners out there, particularly those who've been playing the local classifier game, who need to quit hiding and STEP UP to the big show in Barry!

Once upon a time, a young hilljack from Tennessee also shot a 610.....he also switched to a .45 ACP wheelgun and never looked back.

Yep, but he sure wasn't very happy with his ammo sponsor after going minor at the chrono..... We were shooting the exact same ammo, but apparently the old 25-2 doesn't post quite the same velocities as my 625, at least over that particular chrono at that particular time and place. Looking back at the stats, I see that all three junior shooters at the ISEC scored at least 75% in their respective divisions (Sam in Revo, Austin Griffith in Open, and Kyle Seipp in Limited), which is great considering the high quality of competition present at this match!! Nice going, dudes!

Yes, John B. is a very solid shooter. The only time I've bumped heads with him at a USPSA match was last year's Area 3, where he pushed me into second at 96% after receiving a favorable ruling on some penalties that had been assessed against him on the classifier. I've improved quite a bit since then, but I suspect John has too, I saw on the posted results how well he did at Bud Bond's ICORE match earlier this month--pretty impressive. The 2006 USPSA Nationals will be interesting! Last year Cliff was the first to surpass the 85% mark against Jerry, with a couple more of us over 80%. Will somebody manage to hit 90% or better against Jerry in 2006? Guess we'll find out!

I figured someone would take me to task for saying the 610 is probably not the best choice for USPSA shooting--surprised it took so long! Dick, I appreciate your well-reasoned response. I guess I'm just still not sold on the idea of shooting a significantly muzzle-heavy gun like a 6" 610 in a sport like USPSA, where movement through the stage is so much more important than the recoil-dampening effect of the heavier barrel. (See my post on the other thread for my thoughts on bull barrels, etc.) Classifiers only tell one small part of the story. The way the class system is currently set up for Revolver, you can shoot lights out on two different classifiers back to back, both with near-perfect runs, and have one of them score 66% and one of them score 128%. I know that for a fact! Besides, the class system only tests competence at certain specific shooting tasks, and we all know those tasks alone do not necessarily translate to real match success. I'll take your word for the improved accuracy of the 610, but I know my 625s are accurate enough I wouldn't trade them for a slightly more accurate gun with slightly slower (on average) reloads. Not for USPSA. Now who knows.....maybe I'm wrong about all this. And it's completely possible that certain shooting platforms will create different advantages that will benefit different shooters in different ways, right? Nothing wrong with "gaming the equipment" within reasonable parameters to allow each shooter to maximize those individual benefits.

I happen to own a fantastic custom 25-2 built personally by the late great John Nowlin, that has a short cylinder and a heavy Shilen ported barrel with two interchangeable removable underlugs. For standing and shooting at a single target, the heavy barrel might create a measurable advantage. But I would never choose it over a stock 625 for USPSA or ICORE because (as Nemo has already pointed out) in a run-'n'-gun situation all that extra weight out front is going to slow everything down. Transitions from target to target are going to be sluggy, reloads will suffer, draws will be slower. For shooting USPSA matches with a wheelgun, you want to be using a gun with approximately the "right" weight. Too heavy (bull barrel?) and you wind up with a gun that shoots sluggish and slow. Too light (Ti cylinder? cut-down underlug?) and you wind up with a gun that kicks harder than necessary. By happy coincidence, the 5" 625 and 6.5" 25-2 seem to be almost exactly at the correct balance point for most shooters. Porting? At 120 p.f.? Gimme a break. Even with pin loads, porting does just about squat. To actually reduce revolver recoil, you need a big ol' comp out on the end, and even then it's mostly about the extra weight of the comp. Guys, everybody tried this at Second Chance for years, when the rules were wide open. But in the end, the winning revolvers nearly always had stock factory barrels, with no ports. For porting to do its thing, you really need to be shooting a high pressure cartridge that creates plenty of gas pressure, like the guys in Open division. The placebo effect is a powerful thing. Let people tinker, if it makes them happy. It certainly shouldn't scare anybody. If it only goes bang 6 times between reloads, and it doesn't have an optical sight, bring it the hell on. Or so it seems to me!

They were posted on that website, but they seem to be temporarily gone. I think there were a few minor corrections that needed to be made. You might check back later.

North, I have some good news for you, buddy! It doesn't cost $1,000 to set up in revo. Pick up a nice used 625 at a gunshow for about $450. Slick up the action and chamfer the chambers for free (or pay a gunsmith if you must, just don't pay him too much for an hour's worth of work, OK?), pick up a hundred moonclips from Ranch Products for $30 or so, leave on the Hogue rubber grips, get yourself a holster and some shoot-the-moon clip-holders, and you're ready to rock. Figure about $600 total.