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Reviving an old thread to share some load data in case anyone is interested: Gun: Gen 4 Glock 17, factory barrel Temp: 66 degrees Primer: Federal SP Brass: sorted range brass Powder: Sport Pistol Bullet: Bayou 124gr. RN COAL: 1.14 All groups were 10 shot with the screen 10ft from the muzzle 3.5 gr. Avg: 959.5 fps, SD 12.7 fps, pf 119 3.8 gr. Avg: 1020 fps, SD 8 fps, pf 126.5 4.1 gr. Avg 1062 fps, SD 9.2 fps, pf 131.7 Note: Alliant data shows 1066 fps with 3.9 grains out of 4" barrel and a COAL of 1.05 with the acme 124gr. RN-NLG.

If it were me I would probably go with a 124 coated bullet like a bayou. They are much cleaner than bare lead but not quite as clean as plated. If you buy in case quantities they are priced attractively (as attractively as anything is these days). In my experience they work well with both conventional and polygonal rifling. While I like the clays/147 gr combo myself there is not a lot of published data on it which may not be great if you are giving ammo away. Also, the 147gr. bullets are slightly more expensive. I am assuming you already have a supply of clays that you can use. If you don't it will be hard if not impossible to find. However, Claydot from Alliant is supposed to be a near direct replacement and you may be able to find that. You should of course work the load up again if using clay dot.

Is Donnie using the gold coating now? The ones I have gotten have always been green.

In my experience damaging the coating of bayous during seating will definitely cause keyholing. I load them successfully in 9mm with a redding seating die and in 45 with a Dillon seating die. In both cases I am using more case bell than I use with other types of bullets. This is on a 650 loading at normal speed. Reading your last post I am wondering if you changed the seating die and the amount of bell at the same time. If so I wonder if one thing made it better and one made it a little worse. My suggestions would be to: 1) Check the seating stem. Make sure it is clean and compatible with the bullet nose you are using. Maybe try the other one to see if that helps. 2) Increase the bell in small increments and see if it starts to decrease in frequency (eventually going away). I am running these in 45ACP on my 650 right now. If you want I will be happy to measure the amount of bell so you can perhaps use that as a reference point for your troubleshooting. Let me know if interested.

G17 (factory barrel), COAL:1.145" 3.1gr gives 131pf

The bearing goes on top of the shell plate underneath the shell plate bolt. Underneath the shell plate there is a ball bearing that indexes the shell plate by slipping into the holes that are drilled in the shell plate. I don't think you would want anything underneath the shell plate because it would raise the shell plate up and possibly interfere with indexing.

I would get the 650. If I couldn't afford that and wanted to get started I would probably get a 550 rather than 2 SDB's. Conversions are pretty quick on the 550 plus it uses standard dies and the same powder measure as the 650. It retains it's value well so you could always re-sell later and upgrade to a 650. Your dies and powder measures would transfer over.

I am from Raleigh and don't have any personal experience with this club but it seems promising for you -- mwdshooters.com If you get the bug and don't mind driving a little these two clubs each hold 2 excellent monthly matches (4 matches total per month) caswellranch.com, the-range.com

Rule 9.1.1 states " The IDPA Classification Database is the only official record of classification. The IDPA Classification Database must be kept up-to-date and accurate by each IDPA club's Match Director, Club Contact or designee." Based on this I would say the card you got signed is irrelevant. If your gun, ammo and gear was legal in all three divisions and you requested classification in all three he should do that for you when he enters the scores (rule 9.3.1) If you check them and find out that he has not ask him to fix it. If he doesn't contact IDPA headquarters and explain the situation. The rules do allow you to shoot club level matches in a division that you are not classified for if you are classified in the division you shoot the most (rule 9.2.4). However, that would be your decision to remain unclassified in those other two divisions not the match director's. Either way, you need the classification if you want to compete in a sanctioned match in a particular division.

Thank you for sharing this information. I have been wondering about this.

I think it's pretty unlikely that you are seeing indications of excess pressure on the primers with that Titegroup load. 3.2gr at 1.145"OAL gave me 130pf out of an XDM 4.5 at 65 degrees and I did not notice any indications of pressure problems. The Hodgdon website lists 3.6 as max for a 147gr jacketed bullet seated to 1.100 which is a good bit shorter than where you are and a good bit more powder. Also, CCI primers are on the hard side making it even less likely. You can always post pictures of your primer if you want people to comment on what you are seeing.

I tumble bayous for 15-20 minutes. I notice no change to the bullet coating.

I guess that probably depends on your seating die. I recently tried some Berry's and found I had to adjust the seating die (Redding competition seating die in my case) order to achieve the same overall length because of the difference in bullet shape. Straight forward but probably not as easy as you were hoping. I did find that the amount of bell and crimp I had set worked for both bullets. I have not finished with the test loads but it seems that it takes ~ 0.3 gr. less powder to get the same velocity with the bayous.

He sells a 147gr FP bullet that I load to 1.145. I have used this in both an XDM and a glock.

This is an old thread that got revived. Since I originally posted 2 years ago the coating on the Bayou bullets has changed. This new coating is much better in my opinion. It is cleaner to handle and I don't notice a smell when I shoot like the old coating. I shoot these almost exclusively now.

I load those same bullets to 1.140-1.145 and do not get what I consider a bulge. That's why I was asking about a picture. Yours are seated slightly deeper and I agree seating deeper makes this more likely but I would be surprised if that 0.005" to 0.010" of additional depth would make that much difference. I am personally not a fan of the idea of running them through a lee FCD although some people do that.

I think you have to do what is right for you. I have gotten into and out of competitive shooting several times over the years. There is a possible side effect of this you should be aware of. If you stop spending time and money on shooting this may become the normal way of living for you and your spousal unit. If you decide to get back into it (or another shooting sport) at a later time there is a possibility that said spousal unit will be less understanding of the commitment of time and money required the next time. I'm not saying that's a reason to keep doing it if you feel you want to stop or take a break. However, it might be worth having a conversation about it up front if you want to sort of keep the door the open for the future.

Can you attach a picture?

Like others I simply toss S&B or anything with a crimp.

I tumble for 15-20 minutes.

If you are going to buy a die you might as well buy the Lee or the EGW. However, if you have a die you may be able to remove some of the steel at the bottom so that the carbide ring gets closer to the base. Lots of people do this with (standard) Dillon dies. It will not size the brass as small as the EGW but this can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your perspective since it will not require the extra force of the EGW either. I do not know if this is possible with SDB dies or not. It might be worth checking out though since if it works for you it would eliminate pre-sizing on a separate press. There are threads about doing the die mod if you do a search. However, it's really not any more complicated than grinding or filing off the steel on the bottom until you get to (or close to) the carbide ring.

The factory mags are legal. Depending on mods you can shoot that gun in ESP or SSP. The division capacity for either is 10 rounds. That means you can only put 10 in the mag. You can put 11 in the start mag if the course of fire specifies that you be loaded to division capacity and topped off. This eliminates the need for a Barney mag. Three mags are legal (2 on the belt and 1 in the gun). This is what most people carry. You probably won't use the third mag on most stages.

The Bayous are a cast bullet. By cast, I mean the lead is melted and poured into a mold. The groove is a lube ring. In a normal cast bullet it would be filled with a wazy type lube when the bullet is sized. This lube is a big part of why traditional cast bullets are smokier and dirtier to shoot than other types of bullets. Donnie uses the same mold but uses his coating instead and leaves the groove empty. This doesn't hurt anything. He does size the bullets (after the coating is applied I think). He doesn't need the groove but the molds come this way and I guess it isn't worth the expense of having something custom made since they work great with an empty groove. I believe the precisions are swaged (formed under pressure). Because they are swaged with the intent of coating them there is no reason to have any sort of groove. They are just formed to whatever the desired shape is. The cores of jacketed bullets are swaged and then the jacket is often swaged onto the core. I don't know specifically what type of process precision uses but I would guess it might be similar to jacketed bullet production without the jacket.

Some have reported that they tumble (in walmnut or corn cob) their new brass and the residue left inside the case helps prevent the sticking.

The bayous will be faster than the fmj with the same amount of powder. In my experience you will get the same velocity with 0.2 to 0.4 gr less powder in 9mm. I agree about increasing the bell as well.