Vlad

Sounds to me like this rule goes against the freestyle ideal and a really dumb idea. That aside I'm curious what happens if you have that stage and everyone shoots it using all the positions but the last guy figures it out and skips one. Does the stage get thrown out? Can you define the whole stage as being one big free fire zone and thus calling it one "position"? Vlad

As far as can tell, not yet in the US. Vlad

Hey .. I would have been out there with the wet targets myself, but I admit that today was pretty bad. I keep on trying to make it to your match but stuff keeps on coming up. Heck, my best match performance ever was at your match so now I want to see if I can do it again Vlad

Well .. service aside they are also about half the price most of the time and I'm sure that means a lot to the bean counters. vlad

This is one of those things which would be more easily solved in a open carry state. No need to flash anything, its always there to be seen, legally. Of course, you did the right thing. Vlad

I wouldn't knwo about the differences. I know that when I broke mine, the replacement was slightly different then the original but I have no idea what the 85 uses. So far it seems that going to a lighter recoil spring cures my problems. I'm now running with a 10lb spring and a shock buff. So far I'm not seeing any wear on the shockbuff after about 500 rounds. I had replaced all the mag springs with extra power ones and that had reduce the error rate dramatically but I still got the jam every now and then until I went to the lighter spring. I was going to call it good if it worked for the whole 7 stage match today but it got canceled due to the repeat performance of Noah's flood or somthing like that. Apperently my fellow shooters want to see the targets through the rain or something. Whimps. Vlad

I used ebay to recycle hobbies. A couple of years back I sold some Magic cards,some old roleplaying books and a few roleplaying novels and miniatures. I turned those into a Savage 10FP and a scope plus it payed my for my build of an AR-15 and some other small bits. All together maybe $2000 for things that cost me less then $1000 and where now used. Ebay, where you can sell a quarter for a dollar! Oh yeah, so I'm a geek. You have a problem with that? Vlad

No kidding. Just last week my Scorpion blew its first bulb after about 2 years of hard use. I recalled that the packaging said it came with a spare but for the life of me I couldn't find it. I called and the lady was very pleasent and managed not to laugh at me being obtuse about following her direction for finding the obviously located spare bulb. I think I'll call them again and order a new rubber body and maybe a new lens cover (mine has some minor damage from leaving it on in my pocket for way to long) and pay for them, because I sure got my $35s worth out if it. With Surefire being the big dog and at twice the price I don't mind helping out the little guy a bit. Its good to know I'm not the only one that had a pleasent experience with them. Vlad

I .. can't ... move ... Three ... more .. deserts .. to .. try .. I hope .. you ... are .. all .. well .. and happy ... Vlad

This year I finally gave up on the cheap Magnum lines mostly because I wear out the soles to fast. I like the feel and how they work but the soles are gone in 3 months, as I wear them almost all day and I walk for 2 to 3 miles with the dog on sufaces that eat up rubber. However I discovered that Magnum/Hi-Tech also make decent shoes. I have a pair of their hikers which I use for shooting and I really like them. They are very light weight, good traction, and they have that uppwards curved heel which makes the silly walk a bit easier. I also got a pair of their higher end tactical boots, the Elite. I got the winter version with 400gr Thinsulate so I can only give you a partial report as it has not been cold enought to wear them much. These things are a completely different beast then the cheap end Magnums. They seem to have a much higher quality, a completely different multilayer sole, decent insoles and a very solid feel. I did go for the waterproof version and that might have been a mistake as without a sidezip putting them on and taking them off is not easy. They do need to be broken in a tad but it looks like they are going to work out. Vlad

Getting there .. On the CZ forum Angus reported being able to stuff 19 in his SP-01 mags. Vlad

I think, and this is just my opinion, that folks like Dave S are true exceptions with more talent then most of us can even imagine. I think that it is also possible that Dave S and the Glock are matched to each other and that it may happen that a stock glock with a stock trigger feel best to him. But I also think that for most shooters that gun/human mind meld doesn't happen that often. I KNOW that a better trigger allows me to shoot better. I know that I shoot a CZ better then a Glock because it fits my hand better. I'm sure I could train myself to shoot as well with a Glock as I do with a CZ but it would be no fun. If the equipment makes no difference, then why do top compentitors in other divisons go after the last bit of performance out of their gear? Shooting skills are important, but no one is serious about winning Limited with the small WWII 1911 iron sights, and no one is winning Production with a Lorcin In my opinion the best way to avoid the $2000 Production gun, is to allow folks to make the $100 changes to their $600 guns which otherwise they would have to pay for from the factory in the more expensive models. If a feature is legal on the $2k gun and it is illegal on the $500 gun just because the manufacturer decided that fiber optic sights should cost A LOT more, then you haven't avoided an gear race, you just handed the reins to the industry. Define the features which are allowed and let shooters be shooters. The argument that this should only be allowed in Standard or Limited forgets that the number one feature of Production is No Single Action. As far as anyone can tell me that was the driving force, but somehow along the way it has turned into "whatever Glock is willing to sell you". I think that is a mistake. Ok .. who needs the soap box? I think I'm done with it. Vlad

I am Ellen Ripley! Oh .. wait. I'm a boy. I'm so confused. Vlad

This morning I was back in the same shop I quoted earlier and I realized that some of the prices I gave you were for used guns. For new guns he charges: 92FS $750 Sig226 $899 Vlad

Thank you for looking into it. While I'm sure that eventually the gun will actually exists, right now it seems to exactly and exemple of the problem I was describing. In a different forum Angus mentioned that a run of 100 was made or in some state of production. However given that as far as I can tell the companies don't admit it exists one has wonder if it should be on the list and it exemplifies the problem of the factory custom BTW, I hope you also asked them what the expected retail price was going to be. Vlad

Vince you wrote Please tell me where I can obtain a CZ SP-01. As far as I can tell this gun only exists as a picture and a custom gun for Angus. I'm sure that it will be eventually available but as far as I can tell CZUB and CZ-USA make no mention of this gun existing. How did they convince IPSC that it exists? Vlad

And why not. I qualify the following numbers by first saying that the prices I'm about to quote are from the shop a few block from my house. These are not prices I would pay because I would order my stuff cheaper and have them shipped to a different dealer, but that is not what you asked. The prices are of things he has in stock and which are suitable for USPSA production (so I can add the G34). 92fs $699 Sig226 $750 G34 (used!) $750 P99 $600 G17 $650 Sig220ST $900 USP9C $850 This are prices higher then a person who knows what they are doing would pay but they are about average for New Jersey. Excuse me if I don't want to advertise my home town on the Internet. To those numbers add a 6% sales tax, $15 in NICS (instant background check) and $2 for the permit. However those numbers are meaningless because I can not purchase the guns I worry about. EAA (the tanfoglio importer) does not import the interesting models like the Stock Custom and the SP-01 is vapor. BTW the G34 mags are about $40 which means that a basic setup would be about $1000 and it is not all that rare or specialized of a gun when compared with the others. However as soon as they show up on the market I'll let you know what they cost. BTW the Sig226 Sport has an MSRP of $1600 but I have never seen one in a store. The only one I see even online is on gunbroker for about $1200 but the reserve has not been met. Using Davidsons to locate one let me know that Shore Shot, an NJ shop a ways south of me, would be glad to sell me one $1780 including taxes and fees. Add mags and holdsters and you are looking at over $2000. But it is not an equipment race. Vlad

The weather gets to me only when the course asks me to go down on a knee or prone in cold freezing mud or some such. Otherwise proper clothing combined with the right foods and drinks can keep you going. I got over cold weather during my dumber years when I though that winter mountain treks where fun. I'll take a sub freezing January match over a 100F %100 Humidity match in August. Vlad

My CZ does wherever the finish is worn. My sweat is murder on exposed steel. I can get my AUS-8 stainless steel pocket knife to rust by just touching it with a dry hand and I get nice fingerprint shaped marks on the blade. The underside of the dust cover of my CZ is getting a bit bare and the magwell has been exposed steel for a while from all the reloads and rust seems to love it. Not that I really care, I just keep it oiled and live with it. If I could I would chrome, but just to use the same finish which would chip of again sounds kinda silly and the other CZ finishes are not any better then the polymer which is what mine was covered with. I wonder though .. could I even have CZ refinish it with their nickle finish which they offer on my model even if the original finish was polymer, would that be legal? Edited to add: So if rust is not a factory finish, and I don't have to refinish a rusted gun, doesn't that mean that I would have a non-factory finish? Seriously, If my gun was blued by now it would have been oiled and bare after I got all the rust stains off. You have to see the grip of my Ruger MkII. The thing is shinny bare metal from using oiled steel wool to get the rust off. Vlad

Thats what I thought. Then if my gun rusts up, do I have to have it refinished do be production legal? Vlad

Clearly. We are sitting on different edges of this ravine and only time will tell who was right. However I would like your opinion on my questions regarding finishes. Is rust a factory finish? Can I strip of a factory finish and use the gun in the white? What if it just wears out? Neither are factory finishes, and what is teh difference between a gun with worn out finish and a striped one? Also I am curious what defines a manufacturer and will happen when someone starts building the STI Edge of Production. Hmm .. If I get a manufacturing license and make my own gun from bar stock and offer it on a website for an absurd amount of money , can I get it on the list? Vlad

Wonder why. Nice to see so many close-minded people. Classics rule!!! So tell me why they rule. Can you make an argument for it? Seriously, I'm asking an honest question as I have never shot them. I get the PC thing in countries where you can't use something else, but that aside why do they rule? My position is that if you want to shoot a Practical sport then some practical bits should be around. Heck, shape them like a deer or a pig if you must, but who the heck hunts turtles, because that is the only thing they look like. If you want a shooting challange, I'm ok with it, lets add a A+ zone over the heart on a Metric and score it 6 or 7 points. That should do it. Vlad

This is clearly drifting off the original topic and for that I appologize. Vince pointed out one of the real problems with the rules. It seems that the system is setup to reward gun makers for selling the magic combination of features regardless if such a firearm makes any sense for any other application. Leaving aside the opaque (to me) logic by which the G34 (sold as a tactical model in the US) is deemed unsuited while the SP-01 (I'll bet a box of ammo that S stands for Sport) is consider suitable before it is even commercially real, the system is bound to give rise to the $2000 IPSC production race gun. It encourages an equipment race at the maker level and forces competitors to shoot with a (perceived or real) inferior gun or choose from a small list of expensive custom made factory guns which is what they will be with no real production numbers limit, we shouldn't fool ourselves. Basically as long as the gun is double action (which means something different in the days after the Glock then it used to mean to grandpa) and it is made by some manufacturer it is ok. This places the entire division in the hands of the manufacturers and removes any reasonable level of control from the shooters. I do have to ask what defines a manufacturer. Can a custom gunsmithing shop decide to build from scratch the perfect gun and only build them one at a time as ordered? I can see a small company start building a $2000 production model, modular and with every option known to man as OFM options which they will combine to your wishes. Assuming that gun meets all the specs of a production gun we will end up with an equipment race anyway unless IPSC decided based on some unknown method that Gun X shouldn't be put on the list and doing that just because the rules are lacking seems somewhat unfair. When it comes to the issue of finishes, it seems that we are again handing a check to the makers. If my gun is blued who cares who reblues it? Is it not an equipment race to require shooters to pay a lot more for the same service? Most manufacturers charge A LOT more for their services. Further if the justification is that a certain finish is not a "production" finish and hence not allowed, then is my rusted gun a production finish? After all they don't sell a rust finish. What if I scratch my finish? They don't sell scratched guns either, or at least they shouldn't. If the finish wear out twice a year and it costs $300 how is that not an equipment race? What if the company is only an importer and can not reproduce the finish localy? I can't send my gun to a different country to have it refinished so my choice is to just buy a new one. How is that not an equipment race? Regardless what the original purpose of the division was, the world evolves and it would be dangerous to continue changing rules around to reenforce some original misconseption as opposed to seeing what the shooters want. Lets face it, IPSC shooters are gun enthusiasts, one and all. They like to tinker and poke at their gear. The DA issue was a real one and now DA guns have a home (some of them anyway) but that doesn't mean that people don't want to still tinker with them. You list some numbers from international matches. Leaving aside weather they are meaningfull (the expense of attending such matches is such that a certain financial status or sponsorship is requiered for most), the numbers for production had nowhere to go but up. It is a new division with guns that couldn't be used anywhere else, so growth was inevitable. The cracks in the wall are however obvious with things such as the G34 and the SP-01 or the similar EAA models. If the shooters were so happy with the guns they could have under the rules why are they buying the new models which cost more and are designed specifically for IPSC? You have moved the race from the control of the shooters and you handed it to the manufacturers and that is much worse, in my opinion. I can spend a pile of cash to get a gun with a trigger job done by a factory gunsmith on a different continent but I can not spend a smaller pile of cash to have it done by a local gunsmith. I think it is bad policy and it is a bad bussiness practice in the long run. Clearly, I'm also not alone. Vlad

I'm not trying to discount your or his talent in the least, but does anybody with a "C" card or above even think that's remotely challenging? That's a fairly easy parlor trick from the 200 yard line. I guess thats why people state (and some even in this thread) that the average C or B shooter is head and shoulders above average gun owner when it comes to shooting skills. The first time I shot a long range standards type of classifier I had something like 8 misses and wondered how anyone ever hits at 50 yards. Last time I was mad at myself for missing one and I knew I did it as soon as I let the shot go but Virginia told me I couldn't make it up. Vlad

Not for nothing but it is not all about aesthetics. I guess if you only shoot a plastic gun out of a plastic holdster you may never see this, but my steel framed gun in contact with my kydex holdster plus LOTS of draws results in worn out finish on frame. At that point my choices are A) because my gun is now exposed to rain, sweat and crud face the fact that it will rust, have it refinished by the factory with their propriatory finish as often as necessary maybe as often as twice a year or C) buy a new gun. None of this options are very friendly or keeping competition alive. I've heard it said that this should make the manufacturers produce products that we want, but thats a bit of bull in my opinion because competition guns are not always good "real" guns regardless of the game rules. That finish which wears quickly in the IPSC world may be a perfectly good one for a carry gun which doesn't get exposed to the same amount or type of wear. At the same time that chrome finish that a training/practice/competition gun would prefer may be tactically inferior to the baked on plastic finish the factory puts on it. However the finish provide no competitive advantage and only makes it CHEAPER to maintain and own the gun not more expensive. I will also like to point out that there is an HUGE aftermarket market and it is not driven by IPSC shooters, it is driven by the millions of gun owners who own production guns and like to add bits to them. There are 5 types of wrap around grips not because USPSA shooters want them, but because day to day folks do. So if you are trying to have a divisions in which "real" production guns as owned by the folks out there can shoot then the current aproach is flawed. As far as I can tell the current rules pretty much seem to try to make Production the Glock division. I hate to say this but there needs to more input into this division from countries where people actually own guns, keep them at home, and get to carry them. I'm no trying to start a fight or anything, I just think there is a growing cultural divide here. Where I live I can go to the corner mainstream sporting goods store (not a gunshop, but a place I can buy hand weights, bikes, and golf clubs) and purchase adjustable fiberoptic sights for a glock and multiple types of finger grooved wrap around grips for multiple types of guns. That market is driven by the reality of gun ownership in the mainstream. We also get lots of new shooters at our club. Just two days ago we had SEVEN new shooters at our small indoor practice match. Out of the new shooters we have about a third would shoot Open by the IPSC rules with what a the average person would think of as a DA or DA/SA Production gun. We can ask them to remove their grips, or whatever doodads for the most part but for the guys with ported factory guns we can't tell them to buy a new barrel we can only tell them to buy a new gun. Despite an obvious trend to the opposite I would hope that IPSC/USPSA would be more concerned with attracting new shooters and keeping them then with with weather a $5 bit of plastic alters some fictional balance. If folks like Dave S. can kick butt so amazingly with a stock gun do you really think he will be threatend by a shooter with a glock plug or a guy with a trigger job? I would almost buy the equipment race argument if the pricing was such that a race was rational but in this case it is inverted. It is cheaper to modify some production gun I already have to make it competitive then buy a new one that is so out of the box. A lot of new shooters have to modify their guns DOWN not UP to compete and in my personal opinion that is bordering on lunacy. Vlad