bountyhunter

I guarantee that if they did make a suitable gun for the game, this crowd would still rework it. I don't think you can guarantee anything like that. But I don't think applying the term "rework" to fixing defects is accurate. Rework implies customizing, and I certainly wasn't doing that to get the gun to shoot. I didn't drop $1300 to order a gun so I could spend hours and hours fixing it. I wanted it to show up ready to shoot. You say you wanted the gun to show up ready to shoot. I didn't read all the posts but what exactly kept the gun from shooting? It didn't work at all? I posted the details of the problems with this gun in another thread. The trigger strut was defective (I posted that picture here) and the jagged end tore up the rebound slide. I had to replace both. The WORST defect was that the recoil shield wasn't square to the cylinder and the gap between the rear of the cylinder and the shield was below spec. The gap tapered from about .059" at the top to about .055" at the bottom if my memory serves me (been about 5 years). The point is there was insufficient clearance for the heads of the cases and the cylinder would eventually bind and eventually seize up as the cases worked they way into the "squeeze" area toward the bottom. I ended up having to hand file/stone the recoil shield to square it up. A major PITA and a lot of hand work. So, to answer your question: It would fire two or three times until the cylinder bound up. I define that as not working. BTW: that is the third SW I have had to repair with that exact problem (insufficient clearance at the recoil shield and shield face not square.) The core of the problem was that the barrel was set too far back and that meant they set the cylinder too far back to get clearance at the forcing cone, and still did not have enough because they took a file to the cone (see pictures I posted). I don't know why the cylinder opening in the frames was not square, as it was parallel above and below the cylinder but clearly off at the rear. Bottom line, I don't like paying 1300 for a new gun that needs a ton of gunsmithing.

I'm not sure how that applies to the thread topic. If the SW PC ships defective junk, what another maker does isn't really relevant. SW should ship finished guns and if they can't do it for the price point advertised, either raise the price or go out of business. Don't keep shipping junk with gross defects. I tend to dispute the "price excuse" anyway since companies like STI have made hand fitted 1911's like the Trojan for many years and sold them for $1000 - $1100 price. A good 1911 requires as much fitting as a revo does, so I am not buying the cost excuse. But regardless, all I request is SW to stop shipping new guns that are fixer uppers. I'm tired of working unpaid as their QA department. Seems reasonable to me.

I guarantee that if they did make a suitable gun for the game, this crowd would still rework it. I don't think you can guarantee anything like that. But I don't think applying the term "rework" to fixing defects is accurate. Rework implies customizing, and I certainly wasn't doing that to get the gun to shoot. I didn't drop $1300 to order a gun so I could spend hours and hours fixing it. I wanted it to show up ready to shoot.

And in keeping with their tradition of being a bunch of no class sore losers, Seattle linebacker Bruce Irvin waited until after the game had been lost and then sucker punched Rob Gronkowski.

I think I speak for every 49er fan on earth and probably a lot of other people when I say that we didn't really care won won the super bowl, AS LONG AS SEATTLE LOST. If you want to know why, it goes back to the king of the biggest mouth in the game, Richard Sherman who couldn't pass up a chance to act the fool last year. After the 49ers game he said: http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/2014/01/19/video-seahawks-richard-shermans-post-game-crabtree-rant/ But it would be unkind to rub it in, so I'll just close with a quote from the bible: "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."

Heed this warning. I saw exactly the same thing on my G35 when I switched to a "progressive" recoil spring system (dual rate) that is softer at initial compression. I would use the stock springs.

To state the obvious: if SW keeps shipping highly overpriced junk, then we SHOULD have these threads. Nobody posted anything untrue, just the facts. And people who are contemplating plunking down that quantity of money for a gun need to know the facts because some people can't do their own gun work. When they get a dog with a bunch of defects, they get a gun that is goig to spend a good part of it's life being shipped back to the factory (not being shot). IMHO, posting the truth in forums is the biggest "lever" consumers have to force manufacturers to stop selling junk. If we quietly accept the crap and say "well, it's just starting material" then we will keep paying $1300 for starting material. I am not happy when I get a defective gun so that makes me "grumpy".

I wouldn't expect a "perfectly tuned" competition gun for $1k, however, I would expect at least the barrel to be put on straight.It's more important that the barrel is not over-torqued than perfectly straight.My old Colt trooper had a barrel that was over torqued and straight, this caused a constriction where it passed through the frame. It leaded very badly, and accuracy was mediocre even with jacketed bullets. The front sight is off slightly to the left on my 627, but the torque is correct. I moved the rear sight over a couple clicks and it shoots great. It prints small groups and eats any lead bullet I put through it. For those of you that have never worked with your hands, this stuff is not easy. A difference of .002 of an inch in the position of the barrel shoulder makes a big difference in where the barrel clocks up. I still encounter guns from the 80's that need work from the factory. There was nothing magical about the old guns. The Colt from the 70's I mentioned above was the worst revolver I've ever owned and I was happy to see it go. As someone who builds guns for a living I guess I get a little tired of the whining. Factory guns are just that. A gun from a factory custom shop is just a smaller run of factory guns, stop expecting more. IMHO, that is not a fair position. The PC guns are not "just factory guns", they claim to be made by the performance center which is supposed to be a cut above factory junk. And regardless, the 627 I bought was $1300 and I do not expect a gun of that price to contain obviously defective parts are need a ton of work. I am not paying $1300 for a fixer upper. If I buy a used gun that somebody is dumping, yes it's fair to say I will expect it to need work. As for barrels: mis aligned barrels is so common now with new smiths, I am surprised when I see one that is straight. It may take some work to get a barrel on right and have the correct torque, but they should be. What galls people is that SW sets PC guns up as "semi custom" made by craftsmen and they are just schlocked together junk.

Great for us, but a mixed blessing overall. The low price is because the Saudis got fed up with competition and are now pumping most of their competition out of business. Many of the small energy companies in the US are either out of business now or merging to try to stay afloat. Their threshold of cost is about $60/barrel to make a profit which is why the price of crude was driven down to about $50. The problem is that whenever somebody crashes prices to destroy their competitors, the low prices go away once the competition is dead and then they gouge the hell out of the consumer. http://www.npr.org/2014/10/16/356588376/crude-oil-prices-drop-as-saudis-refuse-to-cut-production

I get free TV for life because I discovered an ancient invention called an antenna. I get about 150 channels. If there is something on one of the Pay channels like Fox sports or similar I find it on one of the many free sites on the internet and watch it on the computer.

Crooks read the papers and find out about funerals and memorials and then hit the houses because they know that nobody will be home.

With all due respect, what does "Performance Center" mean if it's not about performance? I had four stock 625's that took a LOT less work to get to run right than did the PC 627 38 super I had. S&W is charging extra for the PC stuff, I just wish I could see what the extra gets you. It gets you a grey case instead of a blue one. And a lighter wallet.

With all due respect, what does "Performance Center" mean if it's not about performance? I had four stock 625's that took a LOT less work to get to run right than did the PC 627 38 super I had. S&W is charging extra for the PC stuff, I just wish I could see what the extra gets you. +1 If the 627 I bought had been a "standard" gun and priced accordingly, I might sympathize with complete lack of quality. But don't sell me the "performance center" and then ship me a piece of junk that needs a ton of work and includes a defective part that a blind monkey could have spotted.

????? .22 isn't the caliber most people stock up on for their SHTF defense.

That's it. The major international makers that used to flood the US with cheap ammo (Sellier+Belott, Wolf, Brown Bear, Tulah etc) are being eaten up supplying to war usage so a major percentage of ammo is gone. US makers produce what makes them the most money. They won't invest the $$$ to increase capacity because they think it's transitional, not permanent. They are running at 100% capacity but not investing for increased capacity.

It does sound more like a clutch issue.

Taurus makes the model 608 but it's a Taurus.

Yeah, the only reason I sent it back was because it had a lifetime warranty and certificate for free battery and tune up. As I said, the analog movement appears to be dead even after putting in a new battery so I figured it would need a movement. That would be more $$$ than the purchase price so I didn't take it to a repair shop.

Northern California got 1/2 YEAR of total rainfall last month in the space of three days........ and in January, California has had ZERO rainfall (an all time record)

I already contacted Kenneth Cole, they couldn't run away fast enough. They sell junk with their name on it. I'm sure they collect a license fee for each unit and are not involved at all. I'm not sure the "local dealer" thing applies to watches any more than it applies to guns. The local Macy's sells KC watches but they don't get involved in returns. I can't think of any retailer anymore who extends more than a 30 day "bring it back" on any product. After that, you are at the mercy of the manufacturer.

Customer service died after a long, hard struggle to survive today. Official time of death was 2:15 PDT, multiple causes were listed as stupidity, arrogance, and indifference. A moment of silence please...... I worked in customer service for about 20 years and when I prepared training material, I tried to make up stuff as bad as I could imagine... but real life always tops it. You just can't make this stuff up....... Last year I bought a Kenneth Cole analog/digital watch. The analog watch died but it came with a lifetime warranty and certificate for free battery and tune up. I figured it was covered..... stupid conclusion. Kenneth Cole doesn't make watches, they just put their name on Chinese junk made by Geneva Watch Group. So I find Geneva and they actually have a phone number (amazing) so I call it and get rolled to voice mail.... I leave a message and next day I leave a message and next day...... so they don't answer calls. But they also have email so I leave a message... and another message..... so they don't answer emails. Then I do some tracking and find out that Geneva uses a repair facility called Precision Time to do their watch repairs. I contact PT directly (they answer their phones sometimes) and they tell me I have to fill out the service form on the Geneva website to get a service number. This is where it gets good.... I spend 20 minutes filling out the stupid form but the "submit" button won't illuminate so I can't send it in. I finally figure out I have to hit the VISA icon at the bottom which rolls me to a second page where I have to pre pay a $15 "service fee"..... then it goes back to the form I spent 20 minutes filling out and I can finally submit it. And when I hit submit? It goes to an error page and can't go back. Now I don't know if the information went through (it didn't) or if the $15 charge to my VISA went through (IT DID). So since their website doesn't work, I go directly to precision time and they make a work order after they also try the Geneva website and find out it's not functional. I send them the watch (at my expense) and a week later I get an email saying they will fix it.... for an additional $45. So, that would put me $75 spent to fix a watch that cost $60 new. Not happening. I ask them why they are charging me for warranty work? I swear I am not making this up: they can't do it under warranty unless geneva approves it and..... this sounded familiar... Geneva doesn't answer the phone and rarely returns their emails. So it's pay them or else no repair. At that point I said just send it back to me. They said they would ship it the next day. Two weeks later (no watch) I call to get the tracking number. The guy goes out for a few minutes and tells me he found it "in a box". I asked him: "I wonder how many years it would have sat in that box if I hadn't called and started a search for it." It's rare you find cases where the customer service violates every rule to the customer: 1) Stone wall contact number. Call as many times as you want, nobody ever returns them. 2) Email black hole contact. You send emails in but nothing ever comes back out. 3) The website "for your convenience" form doesn't work and wastes 20 minutes of your life filling it in before it rolls to the error page. 4) However, the "VISA charge page" does work (what a surprise!) and takes your money. 5) The famous "no follow through" service: "I (called/emailed/left a message for) the other guy, but he never got back to me." It's always the other guy's fault, even though you were the one I spoke to and you said you would find out what happened. 6) Out of sight, out of mind. Something annoying you? Drop it in the "Never See it Again Black Hole" box and hope the fool who it belongs to never calls back. I stand in awe. Never in my life have I seen a bunch of morons work together in such a well synchronized collection of idiocy to "pitch the perfect game" of customer abuse. Somebody is going to get promoted.

I lived on Cape Cod one year. I remember one morning we had to climb out a window and dig the front door out because about four feet of snow had drifted against it during the night from the constant wind and snow. It's like out here in California where a general panic ensues if raindrops fall. You get people driving down the freeway at 30 mph because they are sure that the rain is going to kill them.

That's hilarious. My dad had a houseful of cats, and he had an old TV with tubes and so the top was a wire mesh screen where the heat came up. So, the cats always slept on the top of the TV because it was warm. One day the oldest cat horks up a giant hairball and barfs down into the TV which shorts out the high voltage cage. I hauled the TV into the repair shop and the poor guy said it was the grossest mess he had ever seen. I don't think TV techs are trained to remove pre digested tuna fish from a TV.....

I realize extended warraties are a scam or they wouldn't sell them. But I bought a new Sony KDL series flatscreen TV a year ago Christmas and decided to get the extended warranty. The TV cost $1200 (on sale from $1500) so I figured I would get the warranty. I got 16 years of service out of the Sony Trinitron I bought in 1996, so I wasn't expecting trouble with the new KDL. About one week after it's first birthday, the KDL blows up. The video image is garbled and distorted. It blew about one week after the Sony one year warranty expired which means I would have gotten zero from Sony. They sent a tech who said the panel was bad and it would cost about $900 plus labor to fix, so it was not getting fixed (it would be replaced). Dodged a bullet on that one. Of course, the process wasn't all that smooth. It took a total of about 3 weeks. They first tried to stick me with a cheapo LG replacement that doesn't have the same features. Then I got the "no call back" stall for a while but eventually we came to an understanding.... and they replaced my Sony with another KDL Sony and I am a happy camper. BTW: the KDLs are being closed out right now and you can get some huge discounts on them (even from Sony). The TV's that sold for $1500 a year ago are going for about $900 now.

I read that strong cleaning chemicals like acetone leech out some of the plastic but I don't know what expected life is. The gripe I read about is the pins get "loose" which means the holes are expanding a little in the frame.