Wild Gene

Thinking the real key, no matter what you do, is to know where your bullet is going from the muzzle to sight in distance and Beyond.

Marco, Absolutely! That's the great thing about this forum. It saves a ton of time that I could devote to time on the range not dicking around trying things that others have tried and found to be less than worthwhile! That is why I ask the questions. I lack the match experience to know, and am not too proud to ask. An Ag professor from college (WSU, Go Cougs!!) once told the class "you're going to figure out your dad isn't as dumb as you think he is". That has been a life lesson for me. I figured it out less than two years after I graduated and dad passed, in 1987. As far as irons go, I'm having more fun with my M1A than any rifle I've ever had, and that rifle has made me 10 times better with my AR. The other day I went to a public sight in day with my M1 and was having a blast knowing the guys with the scoped magnum hunting rifles were watching me get good hits on steel out to the 600 yard targets with an iron sighted rifle. Regardless, that is what got me to thinking about the 100 yard zero I was using on my AR, and how it was probably less than optimum for any match that had targets out past 200 yards. I appreciate each and every reply on this thread. Kurtm, no, no it would not... Haha, have a good one wg

So you add some "wiggle factor" into your MPBR. Personally, if I had a 2MOA rifle, I'd sell it, BUT the "huffin and puffin" part, that I got! If you are shooting a 12" circle, for instance, you use an 8" MPBR sight in at 275 yards (4" above or below line of sight Max) and be able to hold dead on to 320 yard, and still have 2" up or down to spare. Wouldn't that be a better option than having to count Mil. Dots on a scope while you beating cheeks from one target to the next? Just asking. Ya don't know unless you ask sometimes. Thank you! WG

If you backed it down from 300 to a 275 yard zero, you could hold dead center on 8" targets out to 320 yards without any compensation. This would include not having to hold low for targets in the 175 yard range. (assuming approximate ballistics used) Kurtm, you really need faster bullets... haha

Does anyone Zero their rifle to Maximum Point Blank Range? By MPBR, I mean you take the size of the vital area you want to hit, say 12". You sight in you rifle so that the bullet trajectory is no more than 6" above or below the line of sight. This way, you can hold dead center any 12" target out to a given range and hit the target. For example: Your load is (using the federal ballistic calculator) .223, 55 grain with a bc of .255 traveling at 3,200 fps. You would be able to sight your rifle in at 325 yards and hold dead center on a 12" target out to around 380 yards. If you had an 8" target, you would sight in at 275 yards and be able to hold dead on for targets our to 320 yards (never more than 4"above or below the line of sight). Conversely, on a rifle with the scope mounted 2.5" above the line of sight, this would put you only around 1" low on a target at 25 yards (unexpected benefit). I believe this would be similar to the concept of a "battlesight zero". I am not certain what a good size would be for a "hit/vital zone" for three gun matches. I have not shot enough of them to be able to get a good feel of the variety out there. My goal is to try to think about this stuff now so I can simplify or do away with as much of the thought process as possible on a stage. I think not having to compensate for any targets out to about 330 yards is a good start. A 100 yard zero would only be out to around 230 yards, and a 200 yard zero would only bump that up to 265. Anyone do or try this? Thanks, WG

Isn't the big thing about 18" barrels the ability to use rifle length gas systems that supposedly help reduce felt recoil impulse, or is that moot because of the adjustable gas blocks? That and the increase in velocity. Have you looked at the Seekins barrels? (new Seekins fanboy here, loving my rifle) I've been very impressed with my rifle so far, granted it was a complete rifle, not a custom build. wg

My only thought was also how difficult it is to find out about matches. I am finding it is about a 1 year lag to sort of know what is going on, and that is only because I have friends that are very involved in 3Gun. On the other hand, that may not be all bad, considering how tough it is to get into our own Regional USPSA shoot if you find out you are free last minute. wg

I'll tell him you said that, and that you're from the class of '74, see what he says. haha. I bet he killed the paper!

Will it work for an M1A with iron sights? I just want something simple that I can use as a quick reference, other than a piece of paper taped to my Scout rifle. Something that I can look at the range and can get the drop and MOA. wg

A friend of mine in the Marines just posted he was having effective hits with their M40A5's out to 1,660 yards the other day on Facebook. wg

Checkmate still the mag to get for a Springfield M1A (Scout)? Thanks, wg

If this was the FNH shoot, there were a lot of great shooters DQ'd. 25 or so. I'm not sure if I'd rather be DQ'd or finish last, hahaaa. I got a safety or something (don't recall, it was 15 or so years ago, but it was a major match, blew me out of the competition) one time for grounding a gun with an empty on the carrier of my '73. A great friend made the call. We are still friends. I could see it honestly hurt him to bring this to light. What did happen as a direct result of that call was that this sort of discussion ensued and I believe was a part of larger discussion that may have eventually helped lead to a clarification of the rules for the national organization. I think Jesse asking the question, bringing the subject to light is great. It makes most of us think about it and possibly learn something. Take care everyone! wg

Dan, Hope your mother is well. You are correct, this is trivial in contrast to other things in our lives. At first I thought you said there was also a magazine in the pistol, now not sure, a mag would make the call really easy. Also some background on the particular match helped too. I'm sure it was not an easy call or one you liked to have to make. It always makes me proud to be part of this community to hear someone say "the shooter accepted the DQ and took it well and stayed with the squat and helped reset targets for the rest of the match, etc., etc.". Let us all be grateful this was a shooting issue and not nude selfies.

I am an RO in another shooting sport. I have shot gun games since the 1980's. I have won a few things, local, state and regional. I've seen this happen in other sports. You have a rule, the rule is not followed, shooter talks way out of rule applying to this instance because "it doesn't matter" in this case. The real question the RO should ask is "how would I apply this rule to everyone else at this match"? I don't care what the rule is, as long as it is applied equally among all shooters at the event. I am not referring to anyone in this thread! It depends on the rules. If rules state you need to leave a gun open and empty OR any and all safeties engaged, pointed in a safe direction, this does not meet this criteria. If the rules say leave your gun at "X", it is fine. I have been to an introductory 3-Gun shoot that started with pistol and after finished with that you were to place the loaded gun pointed safely down range toward a berm and it was cleared by an RO, but there was only lateral movement, no down range movement. The Glock vs 1911 argument does not apply here, because you choose what to shoot before the match. When you choose to shoot a 1911, you know that you have a safety that you have to specifically manipulate. Is this gun likely to cause bodily harm in its current condition? Highly doubtful. Would I be concerned about it? No more than any abandoned gun. Is it "open and empty or have all safeties engaged", no. Could have the shooter taken a bit more care to properly abandon the gun, absolutely. Was it abandoned within the requirements stated in the rules of the match, don't know. This is probably a better lesson on how to properly write a stage description or match rules than a question of is the gun safe.

I have determined, that without a doubt, and as previously stated, it really just depends on the rifle. I have an LWRC that has eaten and shoot everything I have put into it. It is a sub MOA gun, but just barely. I have a Seekins that is also a sub MOA gun, but shoots much better groups, more like .5 MOA, but shoots much better with .223 ammo than 5.56, especially with the Hornady V-Max 55 grain bullets. This could be in part due to a much better trigger in the Seekins, I don't know, but possibly. It is really cool to have a very accurate rifle, but really, how accurate do these rifles need to be? I'm beginning to be more inclined to look for ammo that feeds reliably and is consistent with what you have, that is affordable for your budget. wg

Bill Drill was a good suggestion. Pin the trigger. Set up a drill to break your shot, keep the trigger pinned, feel it reset, break the next shot. I think it is trigger manipulation too. Do that, focusing on the trigger, assuming you are waiting for the front sight to settle back on the target. wg

Same thing here. I think it might be a function of how well you can actually visualize your stage in your mind before you shoot it. Every detail. I find if I am hunting for targets, I hunt for the sights. If I have my target order in my mind and get my spots, I don't end up hunting for other stuff (ie. the sights). As far as sights go, I still think the "snap" drill, or whatever it is called is of huge benefit to me. Two spots on the wall, and snap your eyes from on to the other, then I go one farther and do the same thing with dry fire, snapping your eyes to one spot, then the gun changing your focus to the front sight, then to the other spot, then bring the gun to the target then focus on the front sight, continuing back and forth between the two spots. The last thought on this is to have confidence that you can make the shot. I find if I have any doubt, I will hunt the sight but focus on the target. Be able to call your shot. I like to start each practice session shooting groups (some people end their session shooting groups). You have to concentrate, plain and simple. OK, the really last thought, don't sweat it, you only need to take a sight picture appropriate for the target and the target's distance from you. On close stuff, I might not even see the gun, let alone the sights. I'm no master class shooter, but I don't think it is because I couldn't be, but I am a student of the game. wg

Sevigny uses his weak hand thumb, he's fairly fast. wg

Ever consider a Hi-Power? 1911 style, double stack mag. Just make sure you get one with a beaver tail so it doesn't pinch you. I had one and it never failed to fire, very dependable. wg

Atlanta Arms does not post prices on their website. Call or email them and they will send you price lists. I just call them and order direct. It works just great and they are super easy to deal with. wg

Hey, you've probably settled on what you want, but don't forget Atlanta Arms & Ammo! Danny sent me a note saying they ran some of their new 55 VMax stuff and were getting something like 1/2" groups at 200 yards out of their test rifles. Their reman is good stuff too. Retail price is very reasonable. Pat Kelly likes the Hornady Steel Match ammo a lot.

I have no experience loading .223, Is there a 5.56 die even available? Or is it actually .223 once we reload the 5.56 brass? oh geeze, all I was trying to figure out when I dug this one back out was how much difference people see in bullet drop at distance and if one seemed to be inherently more accurate out of the Wylde chamber. wg

I would think the NF. I have used my MVA Buffalo Soule out to 1,000 yards. It's a hoot. You break your shot, eat a sandwich, and wait for the ding.

Funny thing, I was playing with different factory ammo, I have a Seekins (SPRO3G) that has the Wylde chamber, and did a 25 yard zero, then checked it at 100 yards (I wanted about 1.4" high at 100), then decided to play a little and was shooting a 300 yard plate. No problem there, but when I was shooting at a 400 yard bowling pin, the additional holdover was not at all what I expected. It was almost the same as the 300 yard plate. The difference was I was using PMC .223 ammo shooting at the bowling pin, and using some American Eagle Tactical XM193 5.56x45 at the steel plate. They both use a 55 grain FMJ. I would have assumed that the .223 would have shot much lower than the 5.56 due to additional pressure of the 5.56. I am going to have to get my chronograph and really start checking. I know this is a very broad based question, that has more variables than I can think of, but was really surprised that the two cartridges performed so similarly on a 400 yard target, but were about 1/2" different at 100 yards. I did determine that the Seekins performed better with this particular .223 ammo than the 5.56 ammo. Oh well, gives me a reason to go shoot some more. wg