Nuke8401

New shooter, new gun, cost between $50 - $3000, shooter waits till the match to test fire it only to discover their gem won't shoot! Not so bad. Regular shooter, new gun, cost between $50 - $3000, shooter waits till the match to test fire it only to discover their gem won't shoot! Not the sharpest tool in the shed! Regular shooter, same old gun, cost between $50 - $3000, malfunctions at least once every match if not every stage much to the surprise of the shooter! Dude your killing me! R&D your home gunsmithing on your own time! What’s worse is the endless reshoots allowed for equipment malfunctions, come on, you want to "teach them" let their score with a gun that won't go bang be the teacher. David E.

There is much info here about iron sight guns, many choose a 20" barrel (for sight radius and velocity) and then go for extended sight radius by moving the front sight to the comp. Much discussion on adjusting the wheel/sight elevation during a match with the main point being that the less adjustment needed the better. I am lazy and try to research and mimic the top shoots in the class; 20" barrel, extended sight radius, 300 yard zero, learn the holdovers. My realist/pessimistic view/advice is buy whatever you want because after you shoot awhile you will want something different. Unless of course you are different than everyone else. David E.

Looks like AM will be greatly influenced by one’s ability to load a shotgun which is not normally a trait of an amateur. I can’t wait! I’m sure many will ask about max rifle distance to the steel in both AM and PRO. David E.

Eruco may be asking why/how as in what direction is a "comp clocked". The basic jest is that a comp will push in one direction (in addition to recoil it also affects muzzle rise) and for a right hand shooter it is "clocked" close to 1:00 or 11:00 for a left hand shooter to cancel muzzle rise and the effect of the shooter's grip. Of course many will say clock each comp for the specific gun, comp, and shooter so yours might not be at 1:00 or 11:00. So any given comp may/should come with directions. Others may correct / clarify my post. David E.

Stumpy, can't help you with the clamp. I am over 1000 rounds now with my set-up, all is well. If I had to do it again I don't think I would even epoxy the shim to the barrel. I would just rough up both sides of the shim and the inside of the clamp and I don't think it would move/slide. David E.

Thanks Andy, I agree with all you said, yes I need to chrono my rounds/my rifle. I am close on my calcs matching actual hits on target but think I can get closer. I think I will get Bryan Litz's book. David E.

Just an update on some range time with my extended sight gun. My link David E.

Just an update. I changed from a 16” to a 20” Government profile barrel to get the sight radius out to 25”. I also changed to the DPMS rear sight which I measured as .070” travel for 24 clicks (1 revolution). The result is a calculated .4 MOA change per click. I wanted to verify the calcs so I shot the following groups at 100 yards after getting a good 200 yard zero. As you can see from the picture my 200 zero shooting at 100 yards is all over the place. Using a ballistic table this group should be about 1” high. Next I added 6 clicks which is my calculated 300 yard zero, again a terrible group with no real value. Then I added 18 clicks for a total of 24 (1 rev) which should impact 10” above the 200 zero. I was POed at my first groups and did the 3 breaths, exhale, hold and squeeze which again resulted in a poor group (first three shots are numbered 1-3) providing no real data. At this point I didn’t know if it was me, the ammo (XM193 tactical), or the new barrel. I decided to shoot a group of 5 the way I shoot tight shots in a match; sight picture – press, sight picture – press. The result was the 5 shots circled. This group was about 13” above the POA or 12” above where the 200 yd zero should be hitting. So the clacs seem to be close but actual shooting is more like .5 MOA per click. Just thought others with an extended radius guns (25” sight radius) and a DPMS rear sight might get some useful info. So now I have to figure out why I shoot much better when I “just shoot”. I think I’ll verify my 200 zero and run this drill again. David E.

Assuming you are an adult, supporting yourself, living on your own; you should have nothing to argue about. Unless of course you are in business together, in which case my advice would be to strike out on your own and be your own man. Seriously, unless you ask for his opinion and are mad when he gives it to you, he should not be telling you what to do as an adult. I would take the high road, show him respect, agree to disagree; and tell him if/when he gives advice unsolicited that you want to make your own decisions as he did and ask him to respect that. If he is a negative person in general then again take the high road and let him know you want a relationship with him but it must be positive, not negative. I don’t know who is right or wrong in your case, I do know I would be much happier, rich and retired if I had listened to my dad. As a parent, one of the things you hate most is seeing your child make the same mistakes you made and not be able to change the outcome. Show him respect and take the high road. David E.

KurtM, Thanks for the info, since most of my shooting is at 200 and under I will most likely stick with a 200 yard zero. I must be wrong on my numbers but I got .4 MOA per click on the DPMs with a 25" sight radius? I think I’ll shoot a group at 100 yds, add 24 clicks, shoot again at 100 yds and get a rough MOA per click number from that as a data point. Based on yours and other recommendations I would rather start with and stay with a 300 yd zero and learn those holds so I don't have to change later. I’ll be shooting AM at the AR15/Rockcastle match and will try to sign up for your seminar. David E.

KurtM, I just sighted in my 20" extended sight gun at 200yds, 25" sight radius. I am hard pressed to find a 300yd or more range here in the north east. My hillbilly calculations are telling my +6 clicks for 300, +12 for 400, +23 for 500. Does this sound close for XM193? DPMS rear sight with with 3/6 knob? I also had to cut the front post down significantly to be able to bottom the rear sight for 200, sound normal? Even though you don't shoot irons much your opinion would be appreciated. Thanks, David E.

Without knowing any specifics about your rifle, the ballistics of your loads; assuming your 69gr rounds is near max load you will only see about 1" difference at 200 yds compared to 55gr factory loads. This is the least of your worries; the 25 meter zero could easily have you off target by a foot or two at 300 meters given the multiplication of error from 25 to 300. What would I do if I didn't have access to a 100, 200, or 300 yards range? I would use the 25 meter target with the 55 gr bullets, if possible measure muzzle velocity and run a calc on handloads.com using 25 meters as the sight in distance, this will give you your holdovers (point of impact vs. point of aim) at any ranges you want 50, 100, 200, 300. Better yet, sight in at the maximum distance available to you and use that sight in distance and run the calc. The farther the distance the better. Or you could just sight in at 25 meters, aim for the bottom 1/3 of the 8x13 plate and see what happens (with a true 300 meter zero you will be about 5-6” high at 200 yards). As others have said and will say again, the only thing a 25 meter, 50 yard or other short distance zero is good for is getting you on paper (big paper) at distance 200/300 yards/meters. You result WILL vary. If I believed in luck I would wish you good luck, you’re going to need it! David E.

I'm not an engineer but my thoughts are that with the weight of the shells we normally use in this game being at the low end of the weight range that the gun was designed for; the additional weight of welding the lifter will have no noticeable effect. As far as clearing a double feed or other malfunction, I wonder if the porting, like you have done, at the front of the lifter wouldn't allow for clearing a jam also? My gun looks just like yours, lifer/porting, no problems so far. David E.

I started with the DIY trigger job. Cut/bend the spring leg and polish some parts. In addition the most worthwhile change I made was to install a set screw in the grip thread to remove the take-up and most of the creep. I probably shot it this way for about 400-600 rounds, no issues. I then installed the JP springs and cut the hammer tail off, no perceived change over the DIY trigger but I think the JP springs will last longer. The pull is between 3.5-4, I cut the hammer to lighten it based on reading that with lighter springs the hammer would move slower and the time to release until striking the firing pin would be longer, again, no perceivable difference before to after cutting the hammer. I was lucky in that my lower was threaded all the way through making the set screw trigger adjustment easy. I think I was also lucky in that my lower and LPK combination allowed trigger adjustment with no filing for safety clearance. What would I do now? I would do what most here say to do, buy/install the JP trigger kit. David E.

Thanks to all, especially TRUBL. Now to practice! David E.

Resurrecting this dead thread. In a recent match some table starts were required; rifle unloaded, bolt open or closed, shooters option. I started with ejection port up, bolt open; when picking up the rifle I hit the bolt release on the table which of course caused me to have to cycle the bolt to load vice just hitting the release after inserting the mag. I did this twice. On the last start I had the ejection port down but gamed it by leaving the grip off the edge of the table, don’t think this will fly in most/all matches. This was fast and allowed me to just release the bolt to chamber. Is there a better way? Thanks, David E.

Coaching a shooter, especially a new shooter, when safety IS NOT involved removes the best teaching tool possible. Despite the fact that the rule exists, the second to the last thing I want is advice/guidance from an RO. The very last thing I want from an RO is for him to give advice/guidance to my competitor. David E.

Casanova, Thanks for all the info, I was close to buying the circle plex, glad you posted here. I did not see the DCD on the Leopold site as an option? Is it by request? It would seem Leopold custom shop would be able to put whatever reticle the customer wants on the prismatic. Maybe they will catch on soon. Thanks Again, David E

DyNo, I thought maybe you could make use of the circle, dot, crosshairs / gaps between them for hold overs with the prismatic? Is there any MOA data on the details of the prismatic? I'm very tempted at this point to go with the prismatic, but there is nothing like beating many/most optics guys. David E.

I just read the BRM3G thread, looks like distance is not only possible with the prismatic but may be the best choice for a 1x optic. The top 2 shooters in Limited were using the prismatic. David E.

Thanks all for the replies, DyNo, I had not considered the simplest option, 20" government profile. Fluting near the muzzle might not work with the clamp on FS, and running irons I really want/need a 20" barrel which is why weight is a concern. The Black Hole Weaponry and DPMS barrels look heavy? It seems many shooters are going to 20" barrels for the velocity. Drifting my own thread, I am moving toward using only fast 55gr bullets and a 20" barrel to get the flattest trajectory possible and still hit hard enough for steel. DyNo, did I see on another thread you are using the Prismatic? I see Kelly N. used one at the Blue Ridge 3-gun. How is it at distance? 2-4 MOA steel at say 400 yds? Thanks, David E.

I am looking for suggestions for a barrel to replace my current 16” mid length gas barrel. I have an armalite upper which I installed a low profile gas block, rifle length free float tube, and mounted a clamp on Armalite front sight right behind the comp. I have a 20 ¾” sight radius but would like to go to a 20” barrel with the same basic set-up. My concerns: 1. Barrel diameter just behind comp need to be close to .750 to allow installation of clamp on front sight. 2. Weight; stainless or not? 3. Contour for weight? Fluted? 4. Money, would like to buy a barrel that needs no gunsmithing /fitting. 5. Cheaper is better for accuracy of 2 MOA or better. 6. Can I just replace the barrel and use the same bolt? Should I buy a barrel with a fitted bolt? 7. 556, 223, wylde chamber? 7. I am more concerned on something that works 100% than having the “best”. 8. I am considering a "AR-stoner SDM-R" form midway, I searched the forum for SDM and found very few hits? Seems like this profile would be a good choice for 3-gun. Thanks in advance, David E.

DPMS Steel handle on sale now at DPMS for 59.95

I started with stock/colt mags until I found out Pmags were specifically designed to allow 20/30 rounds and still seat relatively easy on a closed bolt. Good tip to mark the mags for 20/30 rounds.

Dean, "know your zeros" What rifle distances can we expect? MOA of targets? The rules on the match page say 200 yard max. I plan to shoot irons but may need to go to optics if we are talking 2 MOA at 400 yards. Thanks David E.