Nuke8401

I think since all shooters must shoot the same COF, the COF should be doable by the average shooter in any class which is how most pistol only COF are designed. While not the best pistol shooter on the planet, I like more challenging stages. Even on "easy" stages you as the shooter can make them as hard as you want by increasing speed. I think the same holds true for rifle stages. 4 MOA too easy at 400 yards? just bring those split times down. I just think with allowing 1X the goal was to give average RDO shooters a place to compeate and if they can't hit the targets they won't be around long unless they join the equipment race. So the scores are out on my last 2 gun, my first match with rifle >100 yds, I beat all but 23 of 95 optics shooters and if you were to throw out the 300 yard 10" steel stage I would have beaten all but 12 optics shooters. Part of me wants to join the optics crowd but for now I am on a mission to improve with irons. My goal is 4 MOA any distance.

The scores are out!! http://www.usma.edu/uscc/dca/clubs/guns/pdf/04-22-11.pdf

I use Nu finish for the above reasons also. In addition, I think (scientifically unproven) that polished brass/final loads may improve feeding in the gun. Just like polishing the feed ramp and other internals to improve function, I think polishing ammo gives me just one more plus in the feed area. Saving money???, a $5 bottle, using 1/2 cup (bottle lid) per tumbler load will do thousands and thousands of rounds. Cheap insurance and it makes my bullets look good!

My bird cage was installed with a lock nut against the bird cage just like the comp you are going to install. So if yours is the same, common hand tools will do the trick. The Miculik comp with just the locknut, no Locktite, has not moved on my rifle. Not sure if instructions came with your comp, on Jerry's video he discusses "clocking the comp" to the shooter, basically 1:00 for right handed and 11:00 for left handed as starting points, shoot and check muzzle to make sure muzzle is not moving to one side, if so rotate the comp to compensate. Muzzle blast for the shooter, almost none. Muzzle blast for innocent bystanders, awesome! David E.

Reading another thread about target size for rifle stages and iron sights; the conclusion I came to is that if shooters (irons and now 1X) can't hit the targets they won't like the match or division they are shooting and make a change most likely to TAC Optics. Or in the case of new shooters with 1X just stop participating. From the last old thread, the recommendation from the top irons shooters was 4 MOA MINIMUM. I just shot my first match with targets >200 yds. I choose to shoot irons, and while it was a great match I was disappointed that I could not hit one of two MGM flash targets at 300 yards or either bonus MGM flash at 375. I plan to stick with irons at least through this year. I can now see/understand the negative effect missing these long/small targets has on new shooters and with the new 1X shooters I’m sure they will struggle to hit these. Have you seen a change in target size/distance since this rule change at matches so far this year?

A couple of videos, the old slow guy is me. My link My link My link

Shot the match yesterday, awesome job do by all involved. Lesson learned for this match, pack light! Shot limited, could not hit 1 MGM Flash at 300(20 second penalty, ouch!) or either 375 bonus flash targets. My excuses: last sage I was tired, the sun was in my eyes, the wind was gusting, really it was! I was using a 200 yd zero and holding over, bad plan, but I was unsure of my 300 yd zero. I shot with some good guys from Long Island; I didn’t know they could own any guns there. I think they are shooting in some rain and mud today, best of luck. Loading some video to youtube, taking forever. Seeing these cadets in action gives me faith in our future.

Welcome, we have a young lady, Joann, who shoots in the SE area. Next time I see her I'll ask her to check this post. David E.

I just booked at a Days Inn for the West Point match, the NRA discount code beat both AAA and Pirceline by about 10 bucks, 55.96 base, 63.30 with all taxes.

Last rifle match: from the “security professional”: - EOTECHs have a BCD for 223 out of a 20 barrel, no lines, its automatic, just point and shoot! - A2 sight height above bore is 1. Something inches. - 25 yard zero = 200 yard zero - The velocity loss in a 16" verses a 20" at 100 yards makes a big difference in POI. - Don't rest your rifle on a barrel (blue plastic); it is much less stable than shooting unsupported. Most of this came up while shooting a stage at 8" steel at 100 yards. The RDO guys were having a tough time.

HK UMP, M249 and AT4!!!!!! That's what I'm talkin about!!! Can't wait!!!! David E.

WARNING WARNING WARING THIS IS ALL THEORY RANGE RESULTS WILL VARY For iron sight shooters with extended radius rifles the A2 sight markings may or may not work. When I extended my 16 ARs sight radius to 20, I knew the adjustments would have less affect, but how much? Following the advice of KurtM, always rely on a range sight-in not calculations. Keeping that advice in mind, we can find out some things about our particular rifle. The goals here are to determine your theoretical clicks per MOA (MOA change per click) so you could mark your wheel correctly for your rifle. Since I was unsure of my rear sights change per click I measured it. Using a dial indicator, measure the change in height per click of the rear sight. Turn one complete rotation for good measure and divide by clicks. Total clicks per revolution on my rear sight = 24 Total distance sight moved = .050 Change in height per revolution / number of clicks per revolution = change per click .050 / 24 = .0020833333333333333333 round to .0021 change in height per click. Next we need to find the change in rear sight needed for a specific gun to change POI 1 MOA. To do this we need the sight radius which is 20 for my 16 extended radius rifle. Use this formula to calculate the required change. D1 / R1 = D2 / R2 For rear sight adjustments: D1 is the distance between point of aim and point of impact. (1 or 1 MOA) R1 is range from front sight to target. (100 yds = 300 ft = 3600 inches) D2 is the length the rear sight must change by. (What we are looking for) R2 is the distance between front and rear sights. (Gun specific, 20 inches for my gun) Do some high school algebra: D2=D1xR2/R1 D2= 1 x 20 / 3600 = .00555555555555 or .0055 rear sight movement = 1 MOA change in POI. Next how many clicks equal 1 MOA? Required sight movement is .0055, movement per click is .0021 .0055/.0021 = 2.666666666 clicks per MOA So I will call it 2.7 clicks per MOA Or to find amount of MOA change per click .0021/.0055 = .375 MOA per click (using the long numbers from above) This is the most useful number so far! Next you need a ballistic chart for your ammunition from YOUR GUN. Or to estimate using a ballistic calculator, for best accuracy measure your muzzle velocity. Worst case is to use manufacturer data and if shooting other than a 20 barrel, modify the manufacturer number. For instance, if shooting a 16 barrel subtract 50 FPS per inch or 200 FPS from the ammos advertised muzzle velocity. This assumes the manufacturers data is based on a 20 barrel. From that chart we will get the drop from 100 to 400 yds. The most accurate method is to take the drop between 100 and 200, 100 and 300, 100 and 400, and so on. So using a ballistic chart for a 100 yd sight in for my rifle and load. 100 to 200 yds = -3.96 100 to 300 yds = -16.28 100 to 400 yds = -39.37 So how many clicks between 100 and 200? 3.96 drop at 200 yds, how many MOAs is this? 1 MOA at 200 is 2 3.96 / 2 = 1.98 MOA Since we know our sight is .375 MOA/click 1.98 / .375 = 5.28 clicks we will call this one 5 clicks. 100 to 300 16.28 / 3 = 5.43 MOA 5.43 / .375 = 14.47 clicks, Ill call this one 15 clicks from the 100 mark or 10 additional clicks from the 200 mark. 100 to 400 39.37/4 = 9.8425 9.8425 / .375 = 26.25 clicks, Ill call this one 26 clicks from the 100 mark or 11 additional clicks from the 300 mark. So how to check this? The best validation would be at all ranges 100,200,300,400 but some of us are limited by range availability. I my case a 200 yd range; so this is what I did. Set the rear sight at its lowest position, ignore the markings. Zero at 100 yds using the front sight. Next add 5 clicks (200 yds), shoot and measure should be 1.875 high (for my rifle and my load, not much value from this). Add another 5 clicks (300 yds), shoot and measure should be 3.75 high (for my rifle and my load, will start to give you some idea how close you are). Add another 11 click (400 yds), shoot and measure should be 9.75 high (for my rifle and my load, this should give you a pretty good indication of whether or not the calculations are close. Set sight to 200, shoot at 200, should be right on. If not, sight-in adjusting the rear sight only. This preserves the 100 yd setting. Set the sight to 300 (adding 10 clicks from current setting), shoot at 200, should be 6.89 high you get this number by setting the ballistic calculator to 300 and using the number for 200. If this setting does not result in 6.89 high then adjust the rear sight to obtain 6.89 high to match the ballistic table. Set the sight to 400 (adding 11 clicks from current setting), shoot at 200, should be 15.73 high. If this setting does not result in 15.73 high then adjust the rear sight to obtain 15.73 high to match the ballistic table. This last test will give you the best data without actually shooting at 400 yds. As the top shooters recommend, I run a 300 yard zero. 0-75 yards same-same as other zeros, 100 to 250 POI is +5, 300 dead on, 350 POI 6 low, 400 POI 15 low. Yes, measuring groups at 200 yards to .xx inches is a stupid thing to say but thats what the number is. Please feel free to give me feedback. For all I know I made a gross conceptual error early on and all of this is wrong. No, I am not an Engineer Dude and there is really no reason to believe any of this. Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. At the very least you can figure out the MOA change per click, even if the rest is useless. Moderator, feel free to delete if you find this all to be BS or out of place here. David E.

Hello Edna/Yvette, So the real question is, when are you going to start shooting 3-gun? The truth is 3-gun matches are few and far between here in CT. Thanks for trying to help us out! David E.

Thanks all for the replies, I think using the top of both front and rear is what I'm looking for. I just couldn’t figure out what to use on the rear, duh. So I guess the carry handle fins/wings will be my rear sight. I give it a try this weekend. Thanks, David E.

I'm new to irons, using A2 rear with .030 front post. My question is 10 to say 30 yard targets, what sight picture do you use? On really close, less than 10 yards I can point shoot with success, 50 yds and out I use the sights. I thought I read about using an abbreviated sight picture, "shoot the blob"? Any help would be appreciated. I did take great pleasure in beating all but one shooter with an optic at the last club match. I think I would have beaten him if I had not struggled on a sight picture for these intermediate targets. Thanks in advance, David E.

I like the shotgun/mods Benny has done, mine is similar minus the trigger and internal smoothing. My stock trigger has some creep but breaks at 3 1/2 lbs so it is plenty good for my current skill level. I was just wondering if this will be close to the Mossberg production model? I'm guessing I need to bend my thumb more at the first knuckle when loading to escape the lifter "JAWS"? David E.

I'll bite, Stock lift gate? No slot? I guess opening up the receiver lessons the thumb torture? No finish on the receiver work? Nordic bolt release? Follower? 8+1 or 9+1? Sights? Is this a Benny custom gun of a preproduction Mossberg?

I used the Armalite clamp on front sight, cost, one peice, rugged. It is designed for a .750 mount. I installed shims to make up the difference to get a good fit. I used loctite 620 to bond the shim to the clamp, then removed the sight from the barrel, drilled for a set screw, remounted to the rifle, adjusted the zero, drilled through the set screw hole just enough to dimple the barrel. Remove the sight, tapped the hole, reinstalled sight with cone shaped set screw using red loctite. The sight would probable clamp down to .650 without the shims but the fit is much better with them and the set screw prevents any movement. I have about 400 rounds through this setup. I use an A2 rear, with KNS .035 square front post. KNS sells a set of 10-12 front posts and is the easiest way to try different sight posts. Started with a NM aperture but went back to the standard. My set-up is based on others here that have been successful with irons. It sounds like what you need is railed gas block (to use your existing front sight) that will clamp down to .650 or be willing to shim to fit.

I got the Blackhawk elbow pads, on sale at Amazon, about $7.00 on sale. FYI, made in China. Only used them one match so far, sufficient padding, now to see how long they last. David E.

So for those using both 55 and 69gr or heavier, how do you sight in and make up the difference in ballistics when switching loads? From running a ballistic calc a M193 would drop 23-24" at 300 yards and a 69 SMK would drop 26-27". I am most interested in what iron shooters do but may switch to an optic in the future. My guess right now, as an iron shooter, would be to sight in POA/POI with the 69 SMK at 300 and deal with the difference when shooting 55gr FMJ? What do you do? Thanks David E.

There is a technique called grinding to the "blue line in the world of removing stuck fasteners, specifically nuts from studs/bolts. When using a high speed grinding device sufficient heat is generated to turn the metal "blue" as it gets really thin but before grinding through to the piece you want to reuse (the barrel). In the fastener world this technique is used to grind slots in nuts that are frozen to bolts and once ground to the blue line on both sides of the nut it can be broken" in half/removed. So what I would do is take a cut-off wheel and grind along the gas block on opposite sides parallel to the barrel to the blue line then add some torch heat and remove. There is a chance the grinding wheel will make incidental contact with the barrel, you will have to decide if this is OK. For me I would not sweat it because barrels are commonly machined, drilled slotted and some small grind marks will not alter the barrel molecular structure. The instructions to install my YHM low profile gas block directed the use of Locktite 620, a bonding compound for near press fit joints. It is heat resistant to 400 degrees. Red Locktite also requires >400 degree for removal. So if it was installed with either of these you will need to heat with a torch. Why not call and ask how they would remove it? My guess is they would have heated it. There may also be a solvent to remove the Locktite, but you would need to find out exactly which Locktite product they used. Your results may very! David E.

Seems this is only a low light condition. Went outside today, full circle.

I shoot with so many shooters that say they do it for fun/practice_______(fill in the blank) and they really don't care where they place. I think this is a "feel good" trend in our society. I personally enjoy shooting but the score is EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! I always check the SO's scoring and for any significant match I check my score sheet copies against the official results. David E.

I need some help with iron sights. My sight picture looks like the bottom 1/3 of the peep is covered creating a 1/2 to 3/4 circle vice a full complete circle. It also has a slight slope, left to right. I noticed when I open my eyes really wide it turns into a full circle. I think my windage centering is not affected but I think elevation may be inconsistent with this problem. Same condition with both a .050 and NM aperture. Is this normal? Thanks in advance. David E.

Whatsupglock, I believe if you read further, "used motor oil" is a know carcinogen. Look at the Mobile 1 MSDS, not a carcinogen, just like FP-10. I believe gasoline is a carcinogen and it’s the contamination of the oil by gas that makes it a carcinogen. David E.